Javy Baez

[Useful Idiot]

6 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

So what? He's a member of the 2022 Detroit Tigers and is absolutely a contributor to the short term success formula of this ballclub and he has been terrible on that front. And very few seem to notice (props to @kdog for staying on message there). And his lack of success at the plate definitely impacts his possibility of contributing to the long term success formula by not looking attractive to potential suiters at the trade deadline.... they'd be lucky to get a bag of stale sunflower seeds for him at this point lol

So yeah, maybe he doesn't have a long term deal, but he somehow elides any scrutiny and it's really strange.

I really don't want to make an enemy of you by arguing everything between us, but TO ME since I didn't feel like Grossman was being sold to us as a permanent solution (By The con-man AL Avila)  consequently his shortcomings did not seem worth my time to complain about.

In contrast, AL was taking bows and seizing the spotlight over Javy, so I felt entitled to vent my disappointment.

I'm not fighting you in saying this, I'm just stating my position.

You can ask Gehringer, last season I was mocking  the way Grossman mad dogs the pitcher all the way to the dugout after striking out....I've only got so much venom to go around

[Tiger337]

3 minutes ago, Useful Idiot said:

I was wrong about the Red Sox being eliminated in the round they were eliminated in, and I got the Giants/Dodgers wrong.  Other than that, I had it pretty solid.

I'll tell you what I really think...I believe the PC aspect had a lot of people in denial, they didn't want to concede any level of respect to two teams they had philosophical objections to. SO THEY SIFTED THROUGH STATS trying to justify their heart felt position.

Which I believe happens far too often.  That "confirmation bias" aspect I mentioned earlier   they find stats that support what they prefer to believe, and from that point on it's mostly a matter of who is most stubborn in their determination of which stat matters most.

 

I picked the Braves mostly because I admired their willingness to step up and get replacements to fill the voids that opened up for them

If someone sifted through stats to pick a World Series winner, then that person was not a sabermetric kind of person.  The playoffs are a crap shoot.  You might as well just pick a team randomly.  In fact, I choose the Braves who had the worst record just to show my disdain for the post-season emphasis.    

 

[Useful Idiot]

10 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

Is Baez a disappointment so far?  Sure. The difference now is expectations.  Baez is suppose to be hitting better than he is right now while Perez was never expected to be a productive hitter. 

 

And once Baez finally shows up, I promise to appreciate it. 

 

Think about it another way. You know how teams believe that the fans they lose while tanking will be right back In the beachers once the team returns to winning ways?

I'm just taking that philosophy down to the player level.

[Useful Idiot]

8 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

If someone sifted through stats to pick a World Series winner, then that person was not a sabermetric kind of person.  

 

Well, we see the same sort of dik measuring contests right here.   Someone says "I prefer player XYZ for left field"  and another forum member who prefers player ABC instead sifts out whatever obscure stats they think with support their argument, and flaunt them as THE "superior" choice. it's mostly a dik measuring contest, just using analytics as the media.

That's the kind of opposition I was running into with people "proving" to me that neither the Braves nor stros had a chance.

 

[casimir]

4 hours ago, Jim Cowan said:

This thread is like watching a guy give a series of speeches while looking at himself in the bathroom mirror.

Keep your eyes up, champ.

[mtutiger]

15 minutes ago, Useful Idiot said:

Well, we see the same sort of dik measuring contests right here.   Someone says "I prefer player XYZ for left field"  and another forum member who prefers player ABC instead sifts out whatever obscure stats they think with support their argument, and flaunt them as THE "superior" choice. it's mostly a dik measuring contest, just using analytics as the media.

So if we are having a discussion about two different players, how can you do that without at least some consideration of data?

I say this as someone who kind of agrees that data can be too heavily relied on at times... but that doesn't mean it doesn't matter or shouldn't be used in a baseball discussion either.

Edited May 23, 2022 by mtutiger

[Tiger337]

11 minutes ago, Useful Idiot said:

Well, we see the same sort of dik measuring contests right here.   Someone says "I prefer player XYZ for left field"  and another forum member who prefers player ABC instead sifts out whatever obscure stats they think with support their argument, and flaunt them as THE "superior" choice. it's mostly a dik measuring contest, just using analytics as the media.

That's the kind of opposition I was running into with people "proving" to me that neither the Braves nor stros had a chance.

 

If people were saying that the Braves and Astros had no chance, then I would have said that was an uninformed opinion. If someone picked those two teams and seriously thought they knew something, I would say the same thing.  Trying to project a World Series winner is a random exercise.  Trying to project over a full season also involves some luck but  has more certainty.  

[Useful Idiot]

1 minute ago, mtutiger said:

So if we are having a discussion about two different players, how can you do that without looking at the data?

I say this as someone who kind of agrees that data can be too heavily relied on at times... but that doesn't mean it doesn't matter or shouldn't be used in a baseball discussion either 

Lee was contemplating a "sabermetric kind of person" and I was just editorializing how "once started", they seldom turn it off.

It becomes alpha and omega for them, when it shouldn't....that was what I was thinking.

[Useful Idiot]

Just now, Tiger337 said:

If people were saying that the Braves and Astros had no chance, then I would have said that was an uninformed opinion.

Careful now!!  That means you would have been supporting me. Are YOU REALLY prepared to go to that extent? 😃

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, Useful Idiot said:

Lee was contemplating a "sabermetric kind of person" and I was just editorializing how "once started", they seldom turn it off.

It becomes alpha and omega for them, when it shouldn't....that was what I was thinking.

It was you who brought it up:

"Yet the sabermetric braintrust was certain I was completely clueless"

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, Useful Idiot said:

Careful now!!  That means you would have been supporting me. Are YOU REALLY prepared to go to that extent? 😃

I am not for you or against you.  I don't know you.  I just responds to your ideas.  I don't agree with most of them so far, but that doesn't mean I will always disagree.  

[mtutiger]

I would have to dig back into the archives, but I don't recall anyone here saying that Atlanta and Houston didn't stand a chance of making the World Series... at least once the playoffs started anyway.

[chasfh]

6 hours ago, Useful Idiot said:

And once Baez finally shows up, I promise to appreciate it. 

That’s fine, but just know that you’ve gotten yourself into a position where you will never be able to praise Baez in this forum when he does do well, because everyone here will remember, if not actually remind you, that you bailed on him six weeks into his first season here.

[Useful Idiot]

4 hours ago, mtutiger said:

I would have to dig back into the archives, but I don't recall anyone here saying that Atlanta and Houston didn't stand a chance of making the World Series... at least once the playoffs started anyway.

The world is bigger than just here, if I mislead you to believe that I was saying that happened here, then I'm sorry that I was not more clear.

[Useful Idiot]

45 minutes ago, chasfh said:

That’s fine, but just know that you’ve gotten yourself into a position where you will never be able to praise Baez in this forum when he does do well, because everyone here will remember, if not actually remind you, that you bailed on him six weeks into his first season here.

Oh noes, that sounds just awful!! What'll I do? 😂

 

Does this mean if he still suxx at the end of this season you all will bow to my prescience??

I doubt there will be much occasion to get all backslappy this season, anyway.

Edited May 24, 2022 by Useful Idiot

[Useful Idiot]

BTW, Former Cubbie pitcher, former Cubbie shortstop, I felt the ground rumbling before the bottom of the 9th even started.  JUST HAD TO SAY IT.  

[Tiger337]

3 minutes ago, Useful Idiot said:

Oh noes, that sounds just awful!! What'll I do? 😂

 

Does this mean if he still suxx at the end of this season you all will bow to my prescience??

If he is as bad as Perez, I will acknowledge that you made a lucky guess that was poorly informed at the time you made it.  

[Tiger337]

12 minutes ago, Useful Idiot said:

The world is bigger than just here, if I mislead you to believe that I was saying that happened here, then I'm sorry that I was not more clear.

If it didn't happen here, why bring it up here? Why would we care?  

[gehringer_2]

He was 2/5 with a double tonight BTW.

[Useful Idiot]

The main thing he has going for him right now is that any game he goes 1 for 4, his batting average improves.

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, Useful Idiot said:

The main thing he has going for him right now is that any game he goes 1 for 4, his batting average improves.

actually a top defensive SS who averages 1/4 with a little power is generally worth quite a bit - about $170M in today's market.

[Useful Idiot]

2 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

If it didn't happen here, why bring it up here? Why would we care?  

It was relevant to the "self anointed experts ending up wrong" point i was illustrating.

[Tiger337]

5 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

He was 2/5 with a double tonight BTW.

Perez did that once.  

[Useful Idiot]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

actually a top defensive SS who averages 1/4 with a little power is generally worth quite a bit - about $170M in today's market.

That was some real magic he displayed to end the game tonight!

[Tiger337]

8 minutes ago, Useful Idiot said:

It was relevant to the "self anointed experts ending up wrong" point i was illustrating.

I am not impressed by correct predictiions unless the reasoning for the prediction was sound. Otherwise, it ws just luck.  I am more impressed by someone who makes an incorrect predict based on solid reasoning. 

There was one guy in this forum several years ago who made a random prediction about a Tiger getting traded and everybody made fun of him because it seemed unlikely.  It turned that player was traded the next day.  It was pretty hilarious and this poster became a legend for the next few months.  then he started making dumb predictions about everything and was always wrong and he became annoying.  

Edited May 24, 2022 by Tiger337