Javy Baez

[Sports_Freak]

Why would any pitcher ever throw a strike to Baez? Bounce it or throw it head high. He'll give it a mighty swing either way. I have never seen such an undisciplined hitter. Kinda hard to watch.

[buddha]

44 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Why would any pitcher ever throw a strike to Baez? Bounce it or throw it head high. He'll give it a mighty swing either way. I have never seen such an undisciplined hitter. Kinda hard to watch.

in all the years i watched the cubs, i thought the exact same thing.

[Sports_Freak]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

in all the years i watched the cubs, i thought the exact same thing.

The guys swing is too wild, hard and out of control. If I were an opposing manager, I would scream at any pitcher that threw it anywhere near the plate.

That being said, I saw Vlad hit a pitch that bounced one time. Pretty amazing...and funny.

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Sports_Freak

[mtutiger]

As bad as his approach and the results have been, he's still somehow behind his K-rate even during his much discussed improved stint with the Mets.

Thats kinda mind blowing to me.

Edited June 1, 2022 by mtutiger

[RandyMarsh]

I remember when the top SS's started going off the board I feared that if we didn't grab Baez we may end up with somebody like Jose Iglesias. Well he could've been had for 5 million and he is currently slashing .320/.370/.395. No power but Baez isn't hitting for any at the moment either so atleast we'd be getting a good BA and OBP. 

[gehringer_2]

4 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

I remember when the top SS's started going off the board I feared that if we didn't grab Baez we may end up with somebody like Jose Iglesias. Well he could've been had for 5 million and he is currently slashing .320/.370/.395. No power but Baez isn't hitting for any at the moment either so atleast we'd be getting a good BA and OBP. 

I thought letting Jose walk was one of their dumber moves, but that said, Jose's fielding metrics have fallen off badly the last couple of years. Not likely his improved bat is making up for it. Even at this best however, Jose never had Baez's arm.

[chasfh]

If Statcast is to be believed, Iglesias is worth -0.1 offensive runs to Baez’s -8.6, while Baez is worth +2 runs prevented to Iglesia’s -3. Slight edge to Iglesias for the moment.

[Useful Idiot]

On 5/31/2022 at 1:09 PM, chasfh said:

this guy:

Well, I'll concede that the  plate discipline of the candidate you offer, is far superior  to Javy.

 

You do agree that Javy Baez is an amazin' man?  

[gehringer_2]

37 minutes ago, chasfh said:

If Statcast is to be believed, Iglesias is worth -0.1 offensive runs to Baez’s -8.6, while Baez is worth +2 runs prevented to Iglesia’s -3. Slight edge to Iglesias for the moment.

for the moment being operative. Jose's longer term Rdrs trend is not too pretty, which surprises me a little - I thought with his body confirmation in quickness his D could hold up. 

Not specific to Jose or Javy  - It would also be nice if there were a way to estimate the true effect of extra outs given up or saved in an inning. There is a cascade effect on scoring that exceeds the win probability value of the individual misplay itself when extra outs are granted in an inning that any baseball watcher senses is real but I'm not sure there is any easy or rigorous way to capture. (more pitcher fatigue, more BP use etc...).

Edited June 2, 2022 by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

8 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

for the moment being operative. Jose's longer term Rdrs trend is not too pretty, which surprises me a little - I thought with his body confirmation in quickness his D could hold up. 

Not specific to Jose or Javy  - It would also be nice if there were a way to estimate the true effect of extra outs given up or saved in an inning. There is a cascade effect on scoring that exceeds the win probability value of the individual misplay itself when extra outs are granted in an inning that any baseball watcher senses is real but I'm not sure there is any easy or rigorous way to capture. (more pitcher fatigue, more BP use etc...).

I agree.  I suspect defense is more valuable than traditionally believed.  

[chasfh]

7 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

for the moment being operative. Jose's longer term Rdrs trend is not too pretty, which surprises me a little - I thought with his body confirmation in quickness his D could hold up. 

Not specific to Jose or Javy  - It would also be nice if there were a way to estimate the true effect of extra outs given up or saved in an inning. There is a cascade effect on scoring that exceeds the win probability value of the individual misplay itself when extra outs are granted in an inning that any baseball watcher senses is real but I'm not sure there is any easy or rigorous way to capture. (more pitcher fatigue, more BP use etc...).

The clue to determining the win value of outs above average might be in the way they calculate it. They determine out probability on a given play and reward or ding you based on that. For example, a fielder who successfully completes a 25% Out Probability play gets +.75 outs above average; one who fails to make the play gets -.25. Marry that information with a play’s leverage index, add up all the plays throughout a season, and you’re probably pretty far down to road to runs prevented or allowed, which can then be translated to wins.

[Useful Idiot]

On 5/30/2022 at 8:02 PM, Nerb said:

How do you rationalize the first 2-3 weeks of the season when Javy started off genuinely hot.  You do acknowledge this part of the season actually happened, correct?

Between the late start to the season, and the time he spent on the DL, I think it would  be an exaggeration to claim that his April performance was anything close  to a representative "month".

Even so, you'll have to admit that any complaints by me about Javy, were few and far between in the month of April, so whatever point you are trying to establish seems tenuous, at best.

Plus, I've learned from experience what a monkey cage this forum can be when unpopular opinion is vented, so I simply waited for someone else to start this thread,  and in so doing sidestepping  the scat-throwing guilt peddlers questioning the need for the thread in the first place.   However, once the target was established, I swooped!

[Tiger337]

1 minute ago, Useful Idiot said:

Between the late start to the season, and the time he spent on the DL, I think it would  be an exaggeration to claim that his April performance was anything close  to a representative "month".

Even so, you'll have to admit that any complaints by me about Javy, were few and far between in the month of April, so whatever point you are trying to establish seems tenuous, at best.

Plus, I've learned from experience what a monkey cage this forum can be when unpopular opinion is vented, so I simply waited for someone else to start this thread,  and in so doing sidestepping  the scat-throwing guilt peddlers questioning the need for the thread in the first place.   However, once the target was established, I swooped!

In other words, you are here to troll rather than to have an honest conversation.  

[Useful Idiot]

1 minute ago, Tiger337 said:

In other words, you are here to troll rather than to have an honest conversation.  

Just because I am unwilling to be "heeled" into the conversation you might prefer I have, is no reason to brand me a troll.

Earlier when you were lamenting about a former member who in your opinion became a PITA, I was tempted to quip that you likely found any member unwilling to have the discussion you prescribed for them as a PITA. but I avoided the temptation to editorialize on you personally. 

[Useful Idiot]

7 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

 have an honest conversation.  

OH yes, I  now see the error of my ways, you are the stat god, the stats you cherry pick are so much more worthy that my personal observations.  Please tell me  that my accolades are worthy of your approval.....

[Tiger337]

Tyrus? DuaneBSims?

[Useful Idiot]

I'll tell you who the trolls are. Simple reality that I can come here, express my heart felt view, and get insulted in return, and then 3-4 other members see fit to pile-on by voting up the reputation of the person  just for those insults...THOSE are the true "trolls" here on this board.

 

Mind you, I'm not claiming any "injury" to have resulted. Just clarifying that it's not as complex to read the landscape here, as you seem to think it is.  Some might call that particular behavior a kangaroo court, others call it a shark tank.

I believe that  "monkey cage" is the most apt description. Don't stand too close. 😄

Edited June 2, 2022 by Useful Idiot

[gehringer_2]

2 minutes ago, Useful Idiot said:

I'll tell you who the trolls are. Simple reality that I can come here, express my heart felt view, and get insulted in return, and then 3-4 other members see fit to pile-on by voting up the reputation of the person  just for those insults...THOSE are the true "trolls" here on this board.

 

Mind you, I'm not claiming any "injury" to have resulted. Just clarifying that it's not as complex to read the landscape here, as you seem to think it is.  Some might call that particular behavior a kangaroo court, others call it a shark tank.

I believe that  "monkey cage" is the most apt description. Don't stand too close. 😄

Oh c'mon now UI, no fair playing the martyr (even while denying it) when you are having fun doing it!

[Useful Idiot]

6 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Oh c'mon now UI, no fair playing the martyr (even while denying it) when you are having fun doing it!

This being a moderated board, I think you cross a line branding someone a "troll", because it implies that moderator action should be forthcoming.

 

"Troll" is a leverage word.  So I'm not playing "martyr"

 

I see "troll" as somewhat of a designer pejorative, pretty much in the same spirit as "retarded". And I know you have people here who object to the latter. Well I believe the former belongs in the same category

Edited June 2, 2022 by Useful Idiot

[Archie]

24 minutes ago, Useful Idiot said:

I'll tell you who the trolls are. Simple reality that I can come here, express my heart felt view, and get insulted in return, and then 3-4 other members see fit to pile-on by voting up the reputation of the person  just for those insults...THOSE are the true "trolls" here on this board.

 

Mind you, I'm not claiming any "injury" to have resulted. Just clarifying that it's not as complex to read the landscape here, as you seem to think it is.  Some might call that particular behavior a kangaroo court, others call it a shark tank.

I believe that  "monkey cage" is the most apt description. Don't stand too close. 😄

The "buddy system" is normal here. You should see them in action on the political forum. Its great entertainment.

[Tiger337]

1 minute ago, Archie said:

The "buddy system" is normal here. You should see them in action on the political forum. Its great entertainment.

The key word is entertainment.  He is clearly enjoying his fake martyr role. 

[Useful Idiot]

5 minutes ago, Archie said:

The "buddy system" is normal here. You should see them in action on the political forum. Its great entertainment.

Yanno? it's not that the behavior "harms" me in any way.  It just seems intellectually dishonest to brand someone a 'troll' when you have resident bad actors trying to provoke and escalate.  Frequently the biggest trolls are regular members

Edited June 2, 2022 by Useful Idiot

[Useful Idiot]

2 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

The key word is entertainment.  He is clearly enjoying his fake martyr role. 

It's not a "fake" anything, I'm  simply calling you out for the "troll" remark. (and you know this)

Edited June 2, 2022 by Useful Idiot

[Tiger337]

Don't worry  You're not an evil troll.  Just a silly troll.  

[Useful Idiot]

At least I'm not one of the scat-flinging monkeys.