Ancient Fan Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 I apologize guys, I have to go do some work. I'll try to get back tomorrow, probably late in the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 49 minutes ago, Ancient Fan said: Having lived for nearly 80 years, I have come to believe we all are born with a curse of one type or another (nothing in the Bible to substantiate this belief). It's what we do about this curse that will determine our worthiness in God's eyes. Most choose to follow the path of least resistance. It seems silly to believe that a painful cramped existence is any god's plan when it so much easier to make life better and more fruitful for every one by dropping ancient cultural biases based on superstition and ignorance. I know, people who adhere to biblical inerrancy are lost to any rational appeal, but I find US Evangelical style biblical inerrancy such an absurdist position to take that in the end I admit to having no intellectual common ground there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted June 10, 2022 Author Share Posted June 10, 2022 New information becomes available every day. It's silly to me to value the words of a 2000 year old book over the daily scientific discoveries being made. For example, comparing homosexuality to murderers, rapists and thieves is ridiculous. Sexuality is determined in the womb. Murderers, rapists and thieves are a result of a combination of genetic, physical and social influences. These ballplayers reject Pride uniforms because the church rejects sodomy. They reject it unless one of their priests is a pedophile, then they transfer him to a different parish. It's hilarious to me how people try to cling to the past and then complain about being woke and laughing at snowflakes. "Let me just live in my white privilege bubble where everyone is the same as me. I don't have to deal with brown people. I don't have to learn about the atrocities my ancestors perpetrated, I can simply enjoy the fruits of their murderous labor with a clean conscience and I can pass judgement on anyone I please." Who is it exactly that needs a safe space? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 14 hours ago, Tigermojo said: New information becomes available every day. It's silly to me to value the words of a 2000 year old book over the daily scientific discoveries being made. For example, comparing homosexuality to murderers, rapists and thieves is ridiculous. Sexuality is determined in the womb. Murderers, rapists and thieves are a result of a combination of genetic, physical and social influences. These ballplayers reject Pride uniforms because the church rejects sodomy. They reject it unless one of their priests is a pedophile, then they transfer him to a different parish. It's hilarious to me how people try to cling to the past and then complain about being woke and laughing at snowflakes. "Let me just live in my white privilege bubble where everyone is the same as me. I don't have to deal with brown people. I don't have to learn about the atrocities my ancestors perpetrated, I can simply enjoy the fruits of their murderous labor with a clean conscience and I can pass judgement on anyone I please." Who is it exactly that needs a safe space? Nobody chooses to be white or black or any other shade of brown. skin tones are a result of ancestral sun exposure. that's it. Nobody chooses to be right handed or left handed Nobody chooses to be tall or short Nobody chooses to be blonde or brunette or a redhead Nobody chooses their sexuality Who would choose to be in a group of people who are shamed, ridiculed, denied, threatened, shunned and bullied? Why, because it's fun? I don't think it is. Some of them lose their families over it. Funny, how some people want to live by some Bible standard sometimes but not other times. Ever eat a cheeseburger? Ever work on a Sunday? Ever eat pork or fat? Ever wear two kind of thread at the same time? Ever pay to go to a concert or movie or attend a political speech? (that's a false idol) Ever read your horoscope? Ever mingle with someone who believes in another religion? Ever lie? Ever gamble? Ever not listen to a priest? Ever disobey your parents? Ever curse? Ever get drunk? Ever plant more than one kind of plant in the same yard? Ever shave your beard? Ever cut your sideburns? Ever touch a football? Ever get a tattoo? Many of these "crimes" are punishable by burning or stoning someone to death. If you answered yes to any of those how would you like it........with gasoline or kerosene or pure alcohol........what kind of rocks should we pummel you with? Don't worry, the heathens, gays, and left-handers will save a spot at the table in Hell for you. Oh, and there is a old testament and a new testament. Wait, if the Bible is the word of God how come there is a 2.0 ? I don't understand how people that call themselves "Christians", followers of Jesus Christ, who, to the best of my knowledge, preached to love and accept everyone, even those who want to hurt you. But that gets forgotten doesn't it? Other religions do this following of some religious aspects that they pummel everyone who disagrees with them with, but not when it's inconvenient for them. There is a wire around New York City. It's called an eruv and it's a symbolic enclosure that justifies Jewish people to work on Fridays. Well, isn't that just cheating? Religion and especially Christianity has gone off the rails, at least the public face of it. It happened when the likes of Jerry Falwell and Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggert got cable channels and started spreading their fear-based bullshit. Fear sells, Fear makes money. I know that is not how all Christians act, but the ones that are getting the attention do. Someone needs to flip that script, but there is no money in the dignity business, is there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted June 11, 2022 Author Share Posted June 11, 2022 Convert or die and your pagan holidays are now Christian holidays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 4 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said: Someone needs to flip that script, but there is no money in the dignity business, is there? QFT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 (edited) On 6/10/2022 at 8:22 AM, Motown Bombers said: I can never wrap my head around how God is loving and forgiving, but I also must fear God because God can be vengeful. Edited June 11, 2022 by chasfh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 On 6/10/2022 at 10:24 AM, mtutiger said: And do they have the right to exist? Bringing it back to the "patch" issue (which prompted the creation of this thread), a lot of why pride month exists is because it is a class of people that historically has faced discrimination and hardship in the American experience. Not unlike Black Americans or Hispanics, who also have months dedicated to their experience. Also, not for nothing, not long ago Christians pointed to various passages in the Bible that they insisted validated their right to own other human beings as property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 On 6/10/2022 at 10:25 AM, Ancient Fan said: As mentioned in the other forum, my nextdoor neighbors are homosexual. I still care for them very much. They are very good neighbors but God says they are sinners and have no place with him. If they repent of their sins, they will be forgiven. That is a promise as stated in the Bible. If God says gay people are sinners that have no place with them cause they are gay, then why did he create them to be gay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 On 6/10/2022 at 1:05 PM, Ancient Fan said: … The lgbt community is constantly sueing Christian organizations and believers to accept their beliefs or suffer many hardships. … This is a new one to me. Can you provide examples of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 On 6/10/2022 at 1:03 PM, oblong said: and until about 50 years ago many religious people thought color of skin and gender would have been one of those curses. That’s right. The Curse of Ham. Oh, wait … is that why we can’t eat pork? 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient Fan Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Don't know where to start with all this vitriol present. First do not confuse the relationship between Judaism and Christianity. While we worship the same God, almost, our paths differ greatly. The theology is too extensive to try to compare at this site. I recommend a college coarse at a Christian or Judaism college. The following link will give some insite as to why the Jews believe as they do. It does not apply to Christians in most cases. https://forward.com/life/403206/how-orthodox-jews-observe-the-commandment-to-not-wear-wool-and-linen/ Best of luck in your search for the truth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 38 minutes ago, Ancient Fan said: Don't know where to start with all this vitriol present. First do not confuse the relationship between Judaism and Christianity. While we worship the same God, almost, our paths differ greatly. The theology is too extensive to try to compare at this site. I recommend a college coarse at a Christian or Judaism college. The following link will give some insite as to why the Jews believe as they do. It does not apply to Christians in most cases. https://forward.com/life/403206/how-orthodox-jews-observe-the-commandment-to-not-wear-wool-and-linen/ Best of luck in your search for the truth. I appreciate your contributions to this discussion. I hope you will continue to comment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Ancient Fan said: First do not confuse the relationship between Judaism and Christianity I don't really think that is the problem here. It's more a matter of you accept the God of the OT as authentic or you don't. And if you do not, then you cannot simultaneously entertain biblical fundamentalism, unless you are willing to simply gloss over the most jarring possible contradictions, which by and large much of Christianity has been exactly willing to do for millennia. The alternative is to take a more nuanced view that the OT as a document is a human interpretation of the Hebrews understanding of their historical experience. But to do that undercuts the authority of clergy to mediate the interpretation of the infallible text, so the theologians of fundamentalism wave away the inherent contradictions and continue to argue infallibility because it is the key to their power. Now clearly there is another Christianity that has a completely different approach to all of this, but they have been a shrinking minority and American Fundamentalists pretty much view those people as mushy headed apostates. Edited June 13, 2022 by gehringer_2 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) 19 hours ago, Ancient Fan said: Don't know where to start with all this vitriol present. Can you provide any examples of vitriol, which my dictionary defines as “cruel or bitter criticism”? Edited June 13, 2022 by chasfh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted June 14, 2022 Author Share Posted June 14, 2022 "Vitriol" = truth for those who want to remain in their "everyone I associate with are the same color/religion/sexual orientation as me" safe space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 I think there is vitriol for religion and specifically Christianity on this board, but I don't think I'm seeing vitriol toward a poster. I think Ancient Fan is the best poster from his perspective we've had here in quite a while. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, pfife said: I think there is vitriol for religion and specifically Christianity on this board, Of course, it's complicated. There is belief, there is religion, there is organized religion, there are specific sects of specific religions, and there are specific outcomes that certain sects have been responsible for. Certainly anyone without vitriol for some of those outcomes (ISIS, child abuse, profiteering) would have to be lacking a pulse. Things get progressively grayer as you move left to right across that list. 🤔 Edited June 14, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 On 6/11/2022 at 8:47 AM, Motor City Sonics said: Nobody chooses to be right handed or left handed IDK, sometimes I think I chose to be left handed because I thought it was cool to be different or something. Just got some left handed golf clubs as my baseball swing feels natural left handed, but man does it feel weird swinging them. That tidbit aside, I agree with your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, ewsieg said: IDK, sometimes I think I chose to be left handed because I thought it was cool to be different or something. Just got some left handed golf clubs as my baseball swing feels natural left handed, but man does it feel weird swinging them. That tidbit aside, I agree with your post. You may be ambidextrous, or as I heared a boxer once say on Sports Center "You can't defend me because I'm amphibious", to which Olbermann quipped "Yes, he's 4-0 Underwater". Edited June 14, 2022 by Motor City Sonics 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 I am left handed for writing only. I throw, cut and use tools with my right hand. I couldn't throw a baseball 20' left handed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, ewsieg said: IDK, sometimes I think I chose to be left handed because I thought it was cool to be different or something. Just got some left handed golf clubs as my baseball swing feels natural left handed, but man does it feel weird swinging them. That tidbit aside, I agree with your post. this is actually a good illustration of how a trait exists on a spectrum across the human population. There are people who are so strongly 'handed' they do nothing with their off hand. There there people who are nearly completely ambidextrous, and there are those of use that exist somewhere in between. For instance I am moderately strongly right handed but left footed. Once a person brings that kind of recognition to a trait like sexual drive, homosexuality as some kind of moral "issue" dissolves. The rest is all social construct. Edited June 14, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 I just want to be clear my vitriol is for all of organized religion not just Christianity and with the exception of the Chruch of the Fonz. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 33 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: I just want to be clear my vitriol is for all of organized religion not just Christianity and with the exception of the Chruch of the Fonz. Aye Aye ! Or is it Ayy Ayy Not saying there is or isn't a God, I don't know. I just think organized religion may be good for some, but the people that are at the top are as corrupt as any other organization. People get to the top of very large organization usually by being sneaky, greedy, petty and vicious, but have a way of making it sound like they're doing you a favor. Trying to apply things that were written (by men - clearly men) 2,000 years ago to life today is absolute insanity. Religion is a way to keep people in check, and that works for a lot of people, but it also is used to be cruel, vindictive and it's used to cover up crimes, often against it's very followers. I think Organized Religion holds humanity back. If you read about countries where religion isn't very influential, they tend to be more advanced, more tolerant, generally happier with lower crime and lower violence. I think the lack of ORGANIZED religion has a lot to do with that, because a lot of people in these countries do believe in God, they just aren't using that belief like a weapon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 4 hours ago, pfife said: I think there is vitriol for religion and specifically Christianity on this board, but I don't think I'm seeing vitriol toward a poster. I think Ancient Fan is the best poster from his perspective we've had here in quite a while. I assumed he meant vitriol in this specific thread, versus the board in general, and I was interested in him providing an example of that, because I'm not sure I'm seeing it. You could probably point out something you think you see, but I asked him because he brought up the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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