oblong Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 Locally for me and in Hamtramck you have large Muslim/Arab populations that formed a kinship with MAGA and the right wingers over banning books and anti gay stuff. They will learn soon how friendly they really are when it comes to Israel and middle east policies. The local commentary is very different from the national commentary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 10 minutes ago, romad1 said: 50% of the MAGA party voted against Ukraine aid in the last vote. ****burgers are showing their ****. I'm not trying to vouch for the party, it's far beyond pathetic right now. But again, Ukraine was always going to get some funding, one way or another. We have been extremely supportive of them as well, so the idea that we're not backing our allies is a ridiculous motion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 11 hours ago, ewsieg said: Who are we not standing with? Additionally there is no way Hamas saw what happened in the house a few days ago and coordinated this attack in that time period. Ukraine. Unless you are being completely blind and obtuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 25 minutes ago, ewsieg said: I'm not trying to vouch for the party, it's far beyond pathetic right now. But again, Ukraine was always going to get some funding, one way or another. We have been extremely supportive of them as well, so the idea that we're not backing our allies is a ridiculous motion. Today counts just as much as yesterday. We've been extremely supportive... yesterday (metaphorically). What about today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 Concerning: The U.S. expects Israel to request more munitions from Washington imminently, though the U.S. cannot easily meet all those requests, a congressional official said. Israel launched advanced U.S.-produced GBU-39 Small Diameter Bombs over the weekend and is expected to seek more from the U.S., the official said. The U.S. also anticipates Israel will request small arms, ammunition, 122mm tank rounds and mortars, the official said. Providing Israel with enough Tamir interceptors for Israel’s Iron Dome missile defense system “is the most worrisome,” the official said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 Because of Russia and now Hamas (with Hezbollah and Iran also involved here...); I believe this country is going to be put back into a war-footing shortly. I also think Jim Jordan just lost some votes to be Speaker based on his isolationism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said: Ukraine. Unless you are being completely blind and obtuse. But ... but ... Ukraine is so corrupt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biff Mayhem Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said: Because of Russia and now Hamas (with Hezbollah and Iran also involved here...); Keep an eye on Syria as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIguy Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 Hamas is now saying they are open to truce talks. Israel told them to go pound sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 I don't in any way, shape, or form, justify the barbarism and horrific crimes against humanity committed by Hamas on Saturday. But I think this Palestinian-Israeli expert that CNN had on is right. The world has largely allowed the Israeli government to engage in and get away with an apartheid against Palestinian people for damn near a decade? I don't think the Israeli apartheid justifies at all what Hamas did. But when you have people living in an open air prison, as Israel did with Palestinians in Gaza, you can predict at some point there will be retaliation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIguy Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 It wouldn't matter if Gaza was a paradise, these two sides would still be fighting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Nice of Cocaine Mitch to clean up after the House republic party in the wall street journal today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 23 hours ago, ewsieg said: You guys seem to think congress holds the purse string, this is 2023, not 1789-2000. There was always going to be a continuing resolution hammered out by a few select folks. Even if it drops direct Ukraine funding to give a 'win' to the GOP, it'll still have some backdoor that allows other funds to be sent to Ukraine. The war machine always gets theirs. Unless Gaetz wins the speakership (which if a vote was held today he'd probably be about 217 votes shy) this is what will happen. Nothing personal, but I prefer evidence or documentation to conspiracy theories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 42 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Nothing personal, but I prefer evidence or documentation to conspiracy theories. The last 25 years of how the federal government has governed isn't sufficient evidence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, ewsieg said: The last 25 years of how the federal government has governed isn't sufficient evidence? Again, I think actual, concrete votes taken in the House of Representatives tell me a lot more than "trust me bro, Ukraine's gonna get money because [insert conspiratorial throwaway line here]" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) I, personally, would love to see anyone make the argument to a room of politicians (GOP and Dem) that Israel shouldn't get any funding because, don't worry, the war machine always gets theirs.... They would (with good reason) be laughed and/or jeered out of the room. Because it is a specious and unserious argument that isn't founded in anything concrete. And the same would hold true with Ukraine as well.... if Congresscritters want to vote to cut off aid, they should be made to own that decision, not covered by unserious arguments that hinge on throwaway lines about "the war machine" and whatnot. Edited October 10, 2023 by mtutiger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Ah yes, organized religion is just so wonderful. Making one side hate another side because their version of an invisible entity doesn't line up with the other's version of an invisible entity. People who grew up blocks from each other. It would be like Dearborn and Melvindale being in a perpetual war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 7 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Again, I think actual, concrete votes taken in the House of Representatives tell me a lot more than "trust me bro, Ukraine's gonna get money because [insert conspiratorial throwaway line here]" You're over here talking like votes matter. I appreciate the idealistic view of our government, I really do. Controversial issues don't get solved like that anymore. There will be an onmibus package that leadership works out. Maybe the dems give in to some more border funding to get the GOP to vote it in, maybe the GOP gives in on some childcare funding. Because the vast majority of congress wants Ukraine funding, it likely won't even be a concession in the bill. They don't get what they want unless they vote yes, conceding the other side will get what they want. Parties will then be told how they will vote. You may have a handful that reject, but it'll easily pass. 1/3 of all spending in the last 25 years has been done like this, this is not new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: Ah yes, organized religion is just so wonderful. Making one side hate another side because their version of an invisible entity doesn't line up with the other's version of an invisible entity. People who grew up blocks from each other. It would be like Dearborn and Melvindale being in a perpetual war. I dislike religion for this very reason. It would be like Dearborn and Melvindale though if Melvindale surrounded Dearborn, cut off access to clean water to 90% of the people in Dearborn, indiscriminately rocketed or launched air strikes on religious buildings/schools/homes/apartments/marketplaces, and gave Dearborn residents 72 hour to vacate notices because they were going to demolish their homes and build Melvindalian settlements. Edited October 10, 2023 by Mr.TaterSalad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 9 minutes ago, ewsieg said: I appreciate the idealistic view of our government, I really do. Condescend much? 9 minutes ago, ewsieg said: There will be an onmibus package that leadership works out. Maybe the dems give in to some more border funding to get the GOP to vote it in, maybe the GOP gives in on some childcare funding. Because the vast majority of congress wants Ukraine funding, it likely won't even be a concession in the bill. They don't get what they want unless they vote yes, conceding the other side will get what they want. Parties will then be told how they will vote. You may have a handful that reject, but it'll easily pass. 1/3 of all spending in the last 25 years has been done like this, this is not new. Even if Congress has largely operated using Omnibus bills over the past 25 years, why shouldn't elected officials responsible for their "votes"? Even if Ukraine funding was a "show vote", isn't it kinda telling that over half of them decided not to fund? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 hour ago, mtutiger said: Condescend much? Agreed, that was uncalled for. I apologize. 1 hour ago, mtutiger said: Even if Congress has largely operated using Omnibus bills over the past 25 years, why shouldn't elected officials responsible for their "votes"? Even if Ukraine funding was a "show vote", isn't it kinda telling that over half of them decided not to fund? Legitimate points and i'm not defending anyone, just stating that this is our new current working policy. On a similar level, Democrats (federal) were never going to defund the police regardless of how loud a select few were and how many more moderates still catered to those that pushed that idea. I'm sure Stan said it was going to happen and i'm sure you guys called him an idiot over it (rightly so). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gilmore Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 The first sentence (and paragraph) of the NYT story Eric linked is this: Billions of dollars in U.S. military and economic aid have enabled Ukraine to fend off Russia’s invasion, but the future of that support is now in serious doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, ewsieg said: On a similar level, Democrats (federal) were never going to defund the police regardless of how loud a select few were and how many more moderates still catered to those that pushed that idea. I'm sure Stan said it was going to happen and i'm sure you guys called him an idiot over it (rightly so). Stan wasn't going off of actual roll call votes in the House whenever he made claims about anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 2 hours ago, mtutiger said: Israel is between a rock and a hard place with regards to Russia... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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