CMRivdogs Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 https://open.substack.com/pub/thebulwark/p/viktor-orban-defender-christianity-poseur?r=45wcm&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email I came upon this and got a glimpse of the future if the current version of the Righteous wins out and Trump is elected. A glimpse of Orban's Hungary and the New Christianity. Quote THE HUNGARIAN EVANGELICAL FELLOWSHIP (known locally as MET) is a small, independent-Methodist denomination of 19,000 members. It has been internationally recognized for its charitable work operating some 63 institutions—schools, care homes, and homeless shelters—in Hungary’s poorest communities. But its work is visibly disintegrating since the government of Prime Minister Viktor Orbán withdrew public funding—an apparently vindictive move that undermines his attempt to depict himself as a defender of Christian civilization. “Two of our schools in Northern Hungary have suspended operations—we’ve lost so many teachers through resignation that classes are now impossible,” said Pastor Gábor Iványi, the president of MET, at a press conference at his church’s homeless shelter on Dankó Street in Budapest last month. “Yesterday was payday, and a number of our staff forewarned us that payment this month was a condition for continuing to work. Four months without pay is too much for many people to bear.” Iványi added that “a similar situation is expected to develop in our other institutions in coming days.” In 2020, Iványi and MET’s charitable arm, Oltalom Karitatív Egyesület (Shelter Charitable Society), were given the European Parliament’s Citizen’s Prize, a prestigious award for outstanding contributions to civil society. MET is, however, now left unable to pay employees or meet invoices for goods and services. Allegedly the result of a dispute over unpaid social security contributions for church staff, the withdrawal of funds is seen by many as in fact the end game in a decade-long effort by Orbán to drive MET into dissolution as punishment for Iványi’s willingness to challenge publicly the policies of Orbán’s Fidesz party. The rest is enlightening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIguy Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 Religion? Oh boy, my favorite topic! 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 On 11/21/2023 at 10:04 AM, MIguy said: Religion? Oh boy, my favorite topic! 😁 You and I may have something in common after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIguy Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said: You and I may have something in common after all. A dislike of adult fairy tales? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 51 minutes ago, MIguy said: A dislike of adult fairy tales? There are quite a few of us on here (to my surprise...) that have a dislike of adult fairy tales... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 12 hours ago, oblong said: Always behind the push for theocracy there are people riding it for kleptocracy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 I think the biblical stories are fairy tales, but I believe that many religions promote love and kindness and other good things as fundamentals. The problem is that too many people exploit it and too many buy into their negative persuasions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIguy Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 I just find it so absurd for rational adults to believe that there's a magic invisible sky wizard floating around on a cloud who one day got bored and waved his hands and created everything. I don't blame people for creating religion, they were ignorant of their place in the universe and how they got here, but that doesn't excuse modern man still clinging to those beliefs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 My daughter is in her confirmation year as a Catholic. The church she's at, because of the priest IMO, has moved into the culture wars and she hates catechism and going to church as a result. She's telling me she doesn't believe in God and I can't tell her she's wrong as I don't really have any strong opinion either. I want her to feel apart of something bigger though and a sense of community which I do think the church can provide. Although, maybe not the one we're currently in. After communion I speak to "God", I'm not sure if I'm actually speaking to him, speaking to myself which may contain a bit of God (as in all of us), or simply acknowledging the awesomeness of our situation in this universe, whatever it is, it gives me peace. Just this past weekend our priest talked about the 'truth', how the truth is always the truth and it can't be changed. Surprisingly he went after straight people living together outside of marriage and not gays which was a nice change of pace. In his truth, we can't be good people and get to heaven, you have to believe in God, follow all commandments and when you waiver ask for his forgiveness to get there. If God doesn't care about the person I am, and more about if I sufficiently apologized to him, pretty sure I don't want in anyway. Afterwards we went to lunch and she asked why the church would care about two people living together. This is where I defended the church though and tried to explain that maybe the reasoning behind the churches thoughts may not be based on fact, it doesn't mean that they are completely in the wrong. I let her know that statistically, most studies show living together before marriage leads to increased divorce rates and gave her a few reasons why that might be. ....and yes, even though i'm Catholic, Joseph absolutely banged his wife prior to her "magically" getting pregnant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 (edited) Man...the worst part of a lot of this is that there are good people who need solace out there. I think whatever you think about the idea of a higher power in your most sober pursuits...there are times in your life when it is absolutely a necessary thing to appeal to the strength of that which you cannot understand. I hate with passion those who abuse this for wealth and power. I support and love those who do shepherd their fellow man and live by the golden rule. Christ's teachings are a wonder. Its amazing/not-amazing how they were bridled up by the powers that be to support all manner of foul things. But, there are many other universal truths out there that go beyond abused by the powers that be as well. Edited November 28, 2023 by romad1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 (edited) 49 minutes ago, ewsieg said: most studies show living together before marriage leads to increased divorce rates and gave her a few reasons why that might be. But what is probable and what is moral cannot simply be the same thing. I may be taking a risk of some sort to do a good work, that certainly doesn't make it an immoral act and absolutely to do what is 'safest' is certainly not always moral. Laws/Rules must exist to maintain social order and security, but there is no law anywhere that under some circumstance it isn't moral to violate, and there is no legal act which under some circumstance isn't immoral. The Hebrews tried to build a moral culture around law and Jesus told them that their project had been a failure. Law always fails as an ultimate arbiter of morality, and morality as the basis of law is a slippery slope to theocracy/tyranny Edited November 28, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIguy Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 I also find it a bit absurd that the very same people who are always accusing schools of trying to "indoctrinate our kids" are forcing religion down their kids throats from a young age. Why not keep your kids away from your religion and allow them to choose freely once they're old enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 23 hours ago, oblong said: Good thing this is not a country ruled by God's word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 8 hours ago, romad1 said: Man...the worst part of a lot of this is that there are good people who need solace out there. I think whatever you think about the idea of a higher power in your most sober pursuits...there are times in your life when it is absolutely a necessary thing to appeal to the strength of that which you cannot understand. I hate with passion those who abuse this for wealth and power. I support and love those who do shepherd their fellow man and live by the golden rule. Christ's teachings are a wonder. Its amazing/not-amazing how they were bridled up by the powers that be to support all manner of foul things. But, there are many other universal truths out there that go beyond abused by the powers that be as well. Yes there are examples of groups who are motivated by their beliefs and accomplish great things, with a recent example being the Methodist church in Hungary. Which is why Orban hates them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 7 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: Yes there are examples of groups who are motivated by their beliefs and accomplish great things, with a recent example being the Methodist church in Hungary. Which is why Orban hates them. I’m particularly moved by the people i’ve encountered who escaped tyranny who relied on their faith to get them through. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 I keep going back to something I heard in church nearly 60 years ago. This was from a guest minister in the Presbyterian church my family attended for several years. The speaker was preparing to address a group of ministers in the local Presbytery. He said he wanted to start his address by saying "My fellow Racketters". Seems more appropriate today many years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 4 hours ago, oblong said: I try to avoid this thread as 95% of posters here are Ahiest it seems. To each their own. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIguy Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 7 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said: I try to avoid this thread as 95% of posters here are Ahiest it seems. To each their own. I'm a reasonable person, give me one solid piece of evidence that proves the existence of a creator and I'll be the first one to accept it. Mind you, I require facts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 6 hours ago, oblong said: Not to dis Alberta's father, but you see in retrospect that his congregation was not built on community, or service, or even belief, though those things were probably there in the beginning. But as it exploded into a big church, in the end it was growing up instead based on the the self-validation of the membership. The worst trap of all for any clergman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 5 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said: I try to avoid this thread as 95% of posters here are Ahiest it seems. To each their own. I believe that all things are possible and that some things are unknowable. I am an agnostic. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 6 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said: I try to avoid this thread as 95% of posters here are Ahiest it seems. To each their own. What’s wrong with atheism? Is the current flavor of Christianity that aligns with Trump (and to be clear, I’m not saying that’s all Christians) a better people because they say they believe in Christianity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIguy Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 1 minute ago, casimir said: What’s wrong with atheism? Nothing! 🥰 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 6 minutes ago, MIguy said: Nothing! 🥰 I’m not. But I don’t begrudge those that are. Look, it’s pretty simple. Regardless of religion, don’t live life like an asshole. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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