chasfh Posted November 13, 2022 Author Share Posted November 13, 2022 13 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said: I am of the impression that at least 90% of the people that post here are supporting Democrats, but how many of you were Republicans or Independents in the past - and was it Trump or were you already changing. Usually people get more conservative as they get older...............Just wondering, because it seems odd that a baseball/sports sight would be so seemingly lopsided. The old board might have been two-thirds Republicans when I first joined. Those were the second-term Bush years. The only time I ever voted Republican was in a grade school mock election. I voted for Nixon because my mom was for Nixon (three times!), so I wanted to be on her team. But my crush at the time voted for McGovern, which made me re-evaluate my own vote. As far as adulthood was concerned, I was out on Republicans during the first Reagan years. He came in talking like a warmongering cowboy who was going to get us nuked by the Soviets, and that was all confirmed for me when he invaded Grenada. All the Republicans supported it, the only senators who did not were Democrats, and practically every US ally condemned the invasion. That was the cherry on top for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 36 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Trump was also seen much differently at the time... he was seen as being more moderate on not just fiscal policy as well as even social policy. He wasn't seen as a virulently anti-abortion candidate for instance, and his brand was significantly less intertwined with social conservatism and evangelicalism. That changed once he became President and, more or less, did everything that the social conservatives wanted. And that partly explains the failures of 2018, 2020 and now 2022 imo Trump is neither moderate nor conservative. He has no political philosophy at all. His only interest is himself. I still maintain that if he thought liberals would fall for his act, he would have originally run as Democrat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 16 minutes ago, chasfh said: The old board might have been two-thirds Republicans when I first joined. Those were the second-term Bush years. The only time I ever voted Republican was in a grade school mock election. I voted for Nixon because my mom was for Nixon (three times!), so I wanted to be on her team. But my crush at the time voted for McGovern, which made me re-evaluate my own vote. As far as adulthood was concerned, I was out on Republicans during the first Reagan years. He came in talking like a warmongering cowboy who was going to get us nuked by the Soviets, and that was all confirmed for me when he invaded Grenada. All the Republicans supported it, the only senators who did not were Democrats, and practically every US ally condemned the invasion. That was the cherry on top for me. My mother liked McGovern. My father thought politics was stupid. I am a mix of the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 34 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I know that white dudes like strong men. What's hard for me to believe is they can't see that Trump isn't that. That's what I truly don't get. He's so clearly a fraud. And I don't get the fact that people fall for the religious thing. He's less religious than I am and I am an atheist. I, like many people here, have hated Donald Trump since the 1980's. I think people are just angry at politicians and here comes this guy who wasn't one and he's all angry and blustery and he talks like them. He openly insults people. Yeah, see, I want someone better than that. I want someone smarter than I am to be in charge. I want someone with some dignity. Elitist? You're damn right I want someone elite to be in charge. Besides, politics is a skill and it's best not to learn on the job with the most powerful office in the western world. I was shocked to find out that Johnny Rotten is a big Trump supporter, because I thought he was anti-fascist and anti-racist, but he likes the fact that it breaks the system. Well, understand - breaking the system hurts millions of people in ways we can't even begin to understand. Yes, the system is flawed, but I am not burning down my house because of one of the electrical outlets doesn't work. The crime scare tactic has worked ever since Willie Horton (the murderer, not our beloved Willie), got attacked to the Dukakis campaign. While Dukakis was Governor of Massachusetts a man named Willie Horton got an early release and then killed again. The early release program was signed into law by (Liberal) Republican Governor Frank Sargent. Dukakis wasn't going to win anyway, but the ad did hurt him and the Republicans have used that tactic whenever they could. Maybe people have matured enough to realize that you can't pin crime on one person or party. Gives me a little hope. About this rainbow fentanyl candy.... I did not see that ad in Michigan. I handed out 3 Musketeers bars, only nougat in them. As a life-long Democrat, I am still surprised I have not been invited to a baby blood-drinking party. Democrats have their own demon to deal with and that is woke-ism. It is a problem. A lot of people in our country are sick of it. It's one thing to not want to see people marginalized, but we're going after fucking comedians. Come on, man. I don't go crying at every fat joke. It's getting so bad that I am not surprised that non-Chinese people are not called out for eating Chinese food. White Guy wears a Bob Marley hat with the red, green and yellow African color stripes and people in Ann Arbor say it's "cultural appropriation". No, it's just a Bob Marley fan. Besides, we can't like another culture now? It's one of the foundations that made our country great. We have to get over that and focus on the REAL offensive things going on. If you don't like Dave Chappelle, then don't watch him, but Dave takes shots at absolutely everyone and most people just laugh, he doesn't need to be banned for offensive jokes. Far as I know the guy has never assaulted anyone. The late Christopher Hitchens once said the Tea Party was really the reaction to Obama and the fact that White people will be in the minority in 20-25 years and this scares the hell out of many whites. He also said the Tea Party was only the beginning and they would get worse. He nailed that. So did Aaron Sorkin by calling them the American Aliban on his Newsroom show (great show). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 (edited) I think Ezra Klein is currently about as good as it gets for perceptive political writing. His piece in the Times yesterday was one of the most spot on analyses I've seen in a while - here is his TL,DR finish: Quote If you were looking for a three-sentence summary of American politics in recent years, I think you could do worse than this: The parties are so different that even seismic events don’t change many Americans minds. The parties are so closely matched that even minuscule shifts in the electoral winds can blow the country onto a wildly different course. And even in a time of profound economic dislocation, American politics has become less about which party is good for your wallet and more about whether the cultural changes of the past 50 years delight or dismay you. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/12/opinion/election-midterm-pattern.html He notes that the first clause is the key to why it doesn't matter how bad a candidate like Walker is in his own right. His supporters don't care about him for him, they only care about his vote for McConnell as majority leader because the other side is too unacceptable an outcome. That's big change from a time when nobody was going to get their undies in a twist over a choice for majority leader between Bob Dole and George Mitchell Edited November 13, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 Ah, its still on You Tube. Sorkin nails it here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 (edited) 16 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said: I am of the impression that at least 90% of the people that post here are supporting Democrats, but how many of you were Republicans or Independents in the past - and was it Trump or were you already changing. Usually people get more conservative as they get older...............Just wondering, because it seems odd that a baseball/sports sight would be so seemingly lopsided. I'm younger than what I suppose the median age is here, but I was a weird kid growing up. I can distinctly remember being upset with my parents in elementary school for voting Bush over Kerry, and that I staunchly opposed the Iraq War... and did not accept the reasoning of its supposed relation to 9/11 that was explained by my teacher and parents... So there's that. FWIW, they turned around. My mom has voted for Dems since 2008 and my dad ever since Trump entered the picture. I still hate the Democrats as a party that is seriously out of touch with what is happening on the ground floor, and is far too deep within the pockets of its corporate daddies... but this was the first election I did not even bother voting for individuals, and just voted straight party ticket. Not that I was voting for Rs before, I can't remember ever voting away from a D, but I was an independent in principle (and I guess still am in a way). Edited November 13, 2022 by MichiganCardinal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 17 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said: I'm younger than what I suppose the median age is here, The median age of baseball fans is Heaven's Waiting Room. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 (edited) wrong thread Edited November 13, 2022 by Motor City Sonics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted November 13, 2022 Author Share Posted November 13, 2022 I don’t buy that so-called “woke-ism” is a problem just because Bill Maher has hopped on that hobby horse. So they’re going after comedians. So the fuck what. Instead of whining about it and giving it oxygen, how about rising above it and starving it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 (edited) I think there is a backlash to it. Edited November 13, 2022 by Motor City Sonics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 Bill Maher is a dick. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 Wokeism makes assholes gravitate to Trump. It is annoying to moderates, but I doubt it makes them vote for extreme right wing Republicans. Even if it does make some of them to do so, it gets cancelled out by the annoyance of the anti-wokism reponse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted November 13, 2022 Author Share Posted November 13, 2022 (edited) I think anti-wokeism is at least ten times the force that people imagine wokeism to be. The only reason the average person knows about wokeism at all is because of how much conservative media and certain comedians hammer it. Edited November 13, 2022 by chasfh 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 (edited) Good God we're terrible on third down! Republicans that is lol! Edited November 13, 2022 by Mr.TaterSalad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 (edited) I think "wokism", "grooming", "CRT" "Socialism", are all just interchangeable shorthands for the people who don't like cultural change to hang a tag on what they feel they are against. The specifics of each term have some currency in the debates between the politically active, but probably don't signify much of anything to the rank and file right wing voter - other than that they are all samples from the same pot of stew they want no part of. The cultural values voter *feels* his cultural (or religious) bearings being eroded, the language is not meant for the precise service of argument but a charged one of emotion. Edited November 13, 2022 by gehringer_2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Jim Cowan said: Bill Maher is a dick. Concur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted November 13, 2022 Author Share Posted November 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: I think "wokism", "grooming", "CRT" "Socialism", are all just interchangeable shorthands for the people who don't like cultural change to hang a tag on what they feel they are against. The specifics of each term have some currency in the debates between the politically active, but probably don't signify much of anything to the rank and file right wing voter - other than that they are all samples from the same pot of stew they want no part of. The cultural values voter *feels* his cultural (or religious) bearings being eroded, the language is not meant for the precise service of argument but a charged one of emotion. I agree with this characterization in that all of these are basically interchangeable hypothetical concepts to hammer liberals with, and that have no direct bearing on the lives of practically anyone you hear railing against them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 1 hour ago, chasfh said: I think anti-wokeism is at least ten times the force that people imagine wokeism to be. The only reason the average person knows about wokeism at all is because of how much conservative media and certain comedians hammer it. Not in corporate or government offices much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted November 13, 2022 Author Share Posted November 13, 2022 Just now, romad1 said: Not in corporate or government offices much? So you’ve had Drag Queen Reading Hour at work? 😏 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: I think "wokism", "grooming", "CRT" "Socialism", are all just interchangeable shorthands for the people who don't like cultural change to hang a tag on what they feel they are against. The specifics of each term have some currency in the debates between the politically active, but probably don't signify much of anything to the rank and file right wing voter - other than that they are all samples from the same pot of stew they want no part of. The cultural values voter *feels* his cultural (or religious) bearings being eroded, the language is not meant for the precise service of argument but a charged one of emotion. 100%. The term has it's purposes, but it is used so frequently and is directed scattershot at so many different things that it is kinda devoid of meaning... For most who use it, it's secondhand for "thing I don't like about society" But the flip side is that " anti-woke" isn't necessarily popular either... Ranting against transgender athletes is a great example... That vice signaling works for the already converted, but one imagines it's a loser with middle of the road voters needed to win in competitive areas Edited November 13, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 1 minute ago, chasfh said: So you’ve had Drag Queen Reading Hour at work? 😏 We definitely don't. What we do have is a bunch of brush cut dudes who bitch about anything and everything that seems to nudge in the direction of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, romad1 said: Not in corporate or government offices much? I know what you mean, but a 'presence' isn't necessarily a 'force' in the sense of producing concrete change. That is my whole beef with the hypersensitivity to language and identity. It has a place as far as it goes, but it doesn't do one damn thing for the 12yr old kid on the corner of Linwood an Oakman trying to make sense of his possible futures. Edited November 13, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 Just now, gehringer_2 said: I know what you mean, but a 'presence' isn't necessarily a 'force' in the sense of producing concrete change. That is my whole beef with the hypersensitivity to language and identity. It has a place as far as it goes, but it doesn't do one damn thing for kid on the corner of Linwood an Oakman trying to make sense of his possible futures. My attitude toward these things has really shifted since I run a girl's sports program in my city. The minefields are all over the place and the kids have internalized these things better than the adults. If I can run this successfully until my daughter ages out without making a huge gender dynamics mistake I'll be happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 5 hours ago, mtutiger said: I've been thinking a lot about the crime messaging... it was widely accepted as being pretty good politics and strategy in this election but there were anecdotal signs (both in real life interactions as well as on the sports talk station I listen to) that the more hysterical stuff in TV ads (such as "rainbow fentanyl candy") and stuff like that became a punch line after a while. Everyone else's mmv, but thats what I saw I'd extend this comment about crime messaging to the "anti-woke" stuff as well. It's another case where the hysteria about "drag queen story hours" is probably more of a punchline than it's given credit for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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