2022 Michigan Football

[gehringer_2]

9 minutes ago, buddha said:

he dithered on pearson for months and months, then hired an outside firm to take the pressure off him and to tell him what to do, then dithered some more even after the outside investigation happened.

howard could easily have been fired after that incident which i wrote at the time.  i think the suspension was justified.

harbaugh is a tough person to work with but it is manuel's job to work with him.  

the solution doesnt have to be "what did you want him to do, fire them?"  the issue is that your job is to run the program smoothly, and when things happen below you in your program YOU are responsible for them.

and if it is true that ono went around him on NIL and harbaugh, that means he isnt doing his job and he needs to be fired.  i know you hate harbaugh, but if manuel's problems with NIL are standing in the way of michigan's signature athletic programs, then manuel needs to go.

you think a major college coach like Harbaugh sufferes his AD to be tweaking how smoothly this program is 'running' from day to day? I doubt it. Your complaints are about the coaches, not the AD. Teams and coach management is a head coach responsibility.

Also, I would guess that the fact that Manuel still seems happily ensconced in his job would indicate that he and Ono basically played a game of bad cop/good cop with Harbaugh, and it appears to have worked, but whether Manuel is still here in 12 months will prove that out one way or the other.

Edited January 20, 2023 by gehringer_2

[buddha]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

you think a major college coach like Harbaugh sufferes his AD to be tweaking how smoothly this program is 'running' from day to day? I doubt it. Your complaints are about the coaches, not the AD. Teams and coach management is a head coach responsibility.

Also, I would say the fact that Manuel still seems happily ensconced in his job would indicate that he and Ono basically played a game of bad cop/good cop with Harbaugh, and it appears to have worked, but whether Manuel is still here in 12 months will prove that out one way or the other.

no comment on pearson?  no comment on the NIL talk and manuel standing in the way of that?

[gehringer_2]

7 minutes ago, buddha said:

no comment on pearson?  no comment on the NIL talk and manuel standing in the way of that?

I haven't seen any numbers on what they have done on NIL so I don't have any basis to comment. One can only assume they have done something adequate to keep Harbaugh on board. I'd said at the time that Schilssel was fired that NIL became a frozen topic at UM because policy regarding that kind of money had to be a Presidential level decision and Mary Sue was not going to be the one to make it. So nothing could happen until Ono was in place. That may well have irritated Harbough - and legitimately, but there was nothing Warde Manuel could have done about it.

Edited January 20, 2023 by gehringer_2

[buddha]

Just now, gehringer_2 said:

I haven't seen any numbers on what they have done on NIL so I don't have any basis to comment. One can only assume they have done something adequate to keep Harbaugh on board. I'd said at the time that Schilssel was fired that NIL became a frozen topic at UM because policy regarding that kind of money had to be a Presidential level decision and Mary Sue was not going to be the one to make it. So nothing could happen until Ono was in place. That may well have irritated Harbough - and legitimately, but there was nothing Warde Manuel could have done about it.

but the comments online are that manuel was standing in the way of NIL and ono is not.  i dont know if that is accurate, but if it is, manuel needs to change or be removed.  NIL is the future, whether old, crusty michigan fans like us like it or not.

and the pearson thing was bad on his part.

[Motor City Sonics]

Wow.   What a stupid reason to lose a great gig and probably totally damage your future shot at being a Head Coach.   Hacking into other people's accounts?     So dumb.   So arrogant to think you wouldn't get caught. 

 

I work at a hospital.  When Dave Bing was Mayor he was admitted for several weeks with something very serious (the fact he was in our hospital was never a secret).   Several people logged into his "EPIC" profile (medical records, contact information)............instantly fired.      The only people with access to his EPIC were ones directly involved in his treatment, the very attempt to open his profile was a firing (the was a firewall).   Professional people who didn't seem to understand that authorities would be watching his file to see who's tried to get in it.   

Same thing with a few Lions players who had issues at our hospital.   I have seen a player or two in the hall or their rooms, but I am not saying who because it would mean an instant firing.    We were not allowed to even approach them unless we had a specific reason (if we were part of their case).  Not for an autograph, a picture, not even a "great game last week"    A quick wave was fine, but not much else.  

[gehringer_2]

38 minutes ago, buddha said:

but the comments online are that manuel was standing in the way of NIL and ono is not.  i dont know if that is accurate, but if it is, manuel needs to change or be removed.  NIL is the future, whether old, crusty michigan fans like us like it or not.

of course he was 'standing in the way' if he had no authorization to do anything. People are stupid when they look at large institutions and think things just happen on someone's whim.  The test for Manuel on NIL starts from Ono coming on board as of 10/22. Nothing before that has any relevance I have no idea how it will shake out but I do know that most commentary about the University from the sports field comes from a standpoint of general ignorance about the rest of the institution and how it works.

Edited January 20, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Hongbit]

So how long until Santa Ono gets in trouble for something stupid.   It seems inevitable the way things are going in Ann Arbor these days.  
 

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, Hongbit said:

So how long until Santa Ono gets in trouble for something stupid.   It seems inevitable the way things are going in Ann Arbor these days.  
 

It can take a while....

It took Schlissel 8 yrs to do himself in, Harbaugh has had about as long and so far is still only at the misdemeanor level (😱). Martin Philbert only lasted three as Provost but got away with his act for probably 10 yrs on the faculty before that. 

With regard to Pearson - AFAIK they didn't substantiate any of the serious charges against him and in the end he appeared to have been dumped primarily not hewing to current cultural imperatives. 

Actually, I would guess Schlissel might even have survived his 'stupidity' with the proper self-flagellations if he had had the support of the Regents, but he had already lost that for being impolitic in ways that had nothing to do with the stupid behavior they used as the excuse to fire him.

Edited January 21, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Motor City Sonics]

3 hours ago, Hongbit said:

So how long until Santa Ono gets in trouble for something stupid.   It seems inevitable the way things are going in Ann Arbor these days.  
 

What in the world are you talking about?    Michigan is pure...........

[gehringer_2]

7 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I don't think you can evaluate a University President for their sports acumen. It certainly helps as a sports fan if they are beneficial to you (as Santa Ono appears to be and Schlissel wasn't), but their responsibilities are like 1% sports. If the budget is balanced and nothing is on fire, it's really not your arena, short of fundraising and photo ops. The hope is the adults in the room (i.e., Warde) can run their area on their own.

Even-keel is one way of looking at it I suppose, but I thought Schlissel was pretty inept when it came to managing the university. Even notwithstanding his scandalous exodus, he gained a vote of no confidence from the Faculty Senate during the pandemic - the first in the University's history. He oversaw a graduate student strike where he didn't even really become involved in addressing issues until after the strike began. For much of his tenure, he was reactive rather than proactive, and allowed those crazies to drive where he would place focus (which does nothing but encourage more crazies IMO). Even the Go Blue Guarantee, while it was good marketing (love the name), it came following many peer institutes having already come out with those, and frankly to a larger degree.

Michigan is the type of university that is considered among the best in the world. I would like to see them drive institutional change, rather than allow the world around them to change and then adapt and say "look how revolutionary we are!"

YMMV

you realize that only about 20% of the faculty participated in that vote? And only half of them were unhappy - so that is 10%. Mostly the leftside unhappy 10% that mirror the MAGA in the larger society on the other side. There was very little actual compliant that I could see from serious people on campus anywhere about the way Schlissel handled COVID. They promulgated a solid Vax policy, had a fully functioning testing and tracking regime in place, got quickly into waster water testing/tracking, and had intelligent processes for how to determine what actions were going to be safe and which weren't. Had a very good information/policy awareness/education program up and running and got a complete remote work system off the ground. A LOT of resources were positioned to support/facilitate seamless transistion from live to remote classes  on the fly as necessary. I thought it was a well led and damn impressive effort. The thing you have to realize is that UM is fun target for the Det papers - and as a big institution they are fair game, but in general it's all squeaky wheel stuff that you read about - whether it is in any way representative of what is actually going on on campus is purely incidental.

Schlissel's problem is that he didn't know how, or maybe after a few years just began to stop caring, about keeping the regents happy with their political needs and pet donor projects. That certainly was foolish wrt  helping him defend his position (I really half suspect he was looking to get fired.....), but generally little of that stuff is actually important to the real life of the University. And the truth is the Dems, who control the board of Regents, have put up some pretty terrible regent candidates. When you have a couple of ambulance chasers and an Ilitch family also ran as the majority of your democratic party regents caucus, the likelihood of cultural disconnect with your typical lifetime academic administrator is going to be pretty high.

Anyway, that's my take FWIW.

Edited January 21, 2023 by gehringer_2

[MichiganCardinal]

13 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

you realize that only about 20% of the faculty participated in that vote? And only half of them were unhappy - so that is 10%. Mostly the leftside unhappy 10% that mirror the MAGA in the larger society on the other side. There was very little actual compliant that I could see from serious people on campus anywhere about the way Schlissel handled COVID. They promulgated a solid Vax policy, had a fully functioning testing and tracking regime in place, got quickly into waster water testing/tracking, and had intelligent processes for how to determine what actions were going to be safe and which weren't. Had a very good information/policy awareness/education program up and running and got a complete remote work system off the ground. A LOT of resources were positioned to support/facilitate seamless transistion from live to remote classes  on the fly as necessary. I thought it was a well led and damn impressive effort. The thing you have to realize is that UM is fun target for the Det papers - and as a big institution they are fair game, but in general it's all squeaky wheel stuff that you read about - whether it is in any way representative of what is actually going on on campus is purely incidental.

Schlissel's problem is that he didn't know how, or maybe after a few years just began to stop caring, about keeping the regents happy with their political needs and pet donor projects. That certainly was foolish wrt  helping him defend his position (I really half suspect he was looking to get fired.....), but generally little of that stuff is actually important to the real life of the University. And the truth is the Dems, who control the board of Regents, have put up some pretty terrible regent candidates. When you have a couple of ambulance chasers and an Ilitch family also ran as the majority of your democratic party regents caucus, the likelihood of cultural disconnect with your typical lifetime academic administrator is going to be pretty high.

Anyway, that's my take FWIW.

I think it's fair to say you probably know more than I do about Schlissel's tenure, so I'll defer. I think his legacy will be defined by sending cringeworthy emails to a subordinate and getting canned either way.

[gehringer_2]

14 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I think his legacy will be defined by sending cringeworthy emails to a subordinate and getting canned either way.

Yup - but that's the way it goes in life - just ask Bill Buckner...

[lordstanley]

On 1/20/2023 at 2:46 PM, Hongbit said:

So how long until Santa Ono gets in trouble for something stupid.   It seems inevitable the way things are going in Ann Arbor these days.  
 

Well, right on the UBC campus in Vancouver, One’s last gig, is a famous hippy hangout where students and locals and the occasional prof gather daily in the summer to lay out in the nude, do mushrooms, and play bingo drums. But what happens at Wreck Beach, stays at Wreck Beach. 

[gehringer_2]

3 hours ago, lordstanley said:

Well, right on the UBC campus in Vancouver, One’s last gig, is a famous hippy hangout where students and locals and the occasional prof gather daily in the summer to lay out in the nude, do mushrooms, and play bingo drums. But what happens at Wreck Beach, stays at Wreck Beach. 

As far as his mingling endeavors at UM, I heard he's played Cello with the University Orchestra, but it's probably been too cold for him to have investigated any of the reputed clothing optional bends along the Huron River....

[Hongbit]

8 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

As far as his mingling endeavors at UM, I heard he's played Cello with the University Orchestra, but it's probably been too cold for him to have investigated any of the reputed clothing optional bends along the Huron River....

He seems like a cool guy who’s enjoying campus life.  I bet his future harassment case will be a student instead of administrative staff or other faculty.   

[gehringer_2]

On 1/20/2023 at 4:49 PM, buddha said:

no comment on pearson?  no comment on the NIL talk and manuel standing in the way of that?

BTW, if you think Warde is on thin ice with Ono, there is this to consider. He could be blowing smoke, but here it is...

https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/2022/10/see-santa-ono-talk-nil-and-plans-for-university-of-michigans-future.html

[Hongbit]

I don’t understand this move at all.  I was told repeatedly here that the tunnel was not the problem and it’s been there for 100 years with only 2 incidents.  Why waste time and money on something that isn’t an issue.   

[buddha]

29 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

I don’t understand this move at all.  I was told repeatedly here that the tunnel was not the problem and it’s been there for 100 years with only 2 incidents.  Why waste time and money on something that isn’t an issue.   

i thought you said you were done trolling?  old habits die hard, eh?  lol.

[Hongbit]

And just like that all of the good thoughts I had went right out the window.  

[gehringer_2]

35 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

And just like that all of the good thoughts I had went right out the window.  

I'm a bit thick - struggled to see the connection to anything here until the SO reminded me Ono spent time in Cinncinati. I guess the key is on the outer carton - it's an Ohio product he maybe missed in B.C.

Edited January 25, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Hongbit]

Skyline is disgusting.    Graeter’s Ice Cream is such a better Cincinnati tradition.  

[gehringer_2]

24 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

Skyline is disgusting.    Graeter’s Ice Cream is such a better Cincinnati tradition.  

They had already lost me at 'Chili Spaghetti'.

[MichiganCardinal]

What's the proper response if I run into Santa Ono at the Ann Arbor Kroger?

Take the stereotypical selfie he'll forget about? Question him on when Warde will be fired and make it uncomfortable? Question his chili choices and try to save a life?

[romad1]

7 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

What's the proper response if I run into Santa Ono at the Ann Arbor Kroger?

Take the stereotypical selfie he'll forget about? Question him on when Warde will be fired and make it uncomfortable? Question his chili choices and try to save a life?

Ask him what weird food -- that the average person would be disgusted with -- did he grew addicted to in BC?  Or ask him what that is for Michigan.   I think the weird idiosyncratic stuff is getting harder and harder to identify. 

 

Somewhat related, I'm almost dismayed to see the "Detroit-style" pizza being lauded all over the place when it wasn't really what I grew up eating in Livonia.   But the thing I get when I go back to Michigan, Almond Boneless Chicken is non-existent anywhere outside the bubble of the Detroit suburbs.  When I introduced this "wonder dish" to my buddy from upstate NY he was [shrugs] "what the hell is the big deal?"

Edited January 25, 2023 by romad1

[Hongbit]

8 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

What's the proper response if I run into Santa Ono at the Ann Arbor Kroger?

Take the stereotypical selfie he'll forget about? Question him on when Warde will be fired and make it uncomfortable? Question his chili choices and try to save a life?

Stick to sports.  He’s too far gone when it comes to chili restaurants.  There’s no saving him there.