chasfh Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 1 hour ago, ewsieg said: https://apnews.com/article/biden-united-states-government-district-of-columbia-0574fd762159e8cb5f31c85205df3dc0 Another Atta Boy! Is Biden doing this just for the added pats on the back? Yeah, it's getting pretty embarrassing for him. One thing that sucks is that Biden will pay a heavy price for this, because of the way Democrats own up to things, while Trump, whose similar infractions are likely multiples times worse, will only increase in esteem for his, because of the way Republicans love to guzzle librul tears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 1 hour ago, chasfh said: One thing that sucks is that Biden will pay a heavy price for this, because of the way Democrats own up to things, while Trump, whose similar infractions are likely multiples times worse, will only increase in esteem for his, because of the way Republicans love to guzzle librul tears. Hot take: most people will be able to discern the difference between the two cases, and those who were already turned off by Trump will not be more open to him on account of this news or the handling of the situation by Biden's camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 (edited) This is not a defense of Biden or Trump, re: documents, but I have a feeling there was a lot of document disorganization for people with security clearance in 2020. Records laws don't really account for an abrupt shift to remote work. I've had printed out aircraft drawings in my spare bedroom for almost three years now. They aren't classified at all, but the type of thing that really shouldn't be in my house. Edited January 14, 2023 by Edman85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 9 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Hot take: most people will be able to discern the difference between the two cases, and those who were already turned off by Trump will not be more open to him on account of this news or the handling of the situation by Biden's camp. Cooler take: most people aren't politically tuned in enough to tell the difference between the two. To anyone going just off headlines, which is probably most people, they look the same. It's obvious to you and me just how deep Trump's criminal and traitorous activity runs, but I think we're in the minority. I think most voting-age Americans who don't like Trump don't so because of his loudness and his bluster, and don't really understand or maybe even believe much of what they hear about his alleged criminality. I think this is in part because the media reporting on it have been so successfully demonized, and in part because a lot of what they do hear is comes to them as hot takes or as entertainment, rather than as vetted news stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, chasfh said: Cooler take: most people aren't politically tuned in enough to tell the difference between the two. To anyone going just off headlines, which is probably most people, they look the same. Most people aren't politically tuned in enough to care about either case, if we are being completely honest. Like, in the past election, how much of a factor was the document scandal versus economics or abortion or even J6? Edited January 14, 2023 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 2 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Most people aren't politically tuned in enough to care about either case, if we are being completely honest. Like, in the past election, how much of a factor was the document scandal versus economics or abortion or even J6? Yes, let's be completely honest: totally agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted January 15, 2023 Author Share Posted January 15, 2023 19 hours ago, chasfh said: Yeah, it's getting pretty embarrassing for him. One thing that sucks is that Biden will pay a heavy price for this, because of the way Democrats own up to things, while Trump, whose similar infractions are likely multiples times worse, will only increase in esteem for his, because of the way Republicans love to guzzle librul tears. Politically this could result in the DOJ not charging Trump. Obviously those decisions should be not related, but it would be politically tough to charge Trump and not Biden, even if the evidence points to only Trump legally at fault. That said, would that be a heavy price for dems/Biden? That might help Trump fend off other GOP'ers that are looking to win the primary. I don't think anyone is happy with the thought of Biden/Trump again, but I still like Biden's odds. I like how Dems own up to things....after the midterms of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 Yes, this will possibly let Trump off the hook. In any case it reinforces Biden's image as a bumbler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 I wonder if someone dug thru previous presidents papers they have what could be found? There’s millions of documents. The individual doesn’t do all of that. It’s staffers. Are they really being diligent? Do you just grab a stack of Manila folders from file cabinet A and shove them in a box without looking through each one? I wouldn’t be surprised if this kind of thing happens all the time but given what Trump did by fighting it then it becomes news now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 I love how Republicans think everything they shit over would have turned the election had it happened before the election. It's hilarious and also bullshit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 5 hours ago, ewsieg said: Politically this could result in the DOJ not charging Trump. Obviously those decisions should be not related, but it would be politically tough to charge Trump and not Biden, even if the evidence points to only Trump legally at fault. That said, would that be a heavy price for dems/Biden? That might help Trump fend off other GOP'ers that are looking to win the primary. I don't think anyone is happy with the thought of Biden/Trump again, but I still like Biden's odds. I like how Dems own up to things....after the midterms of course. There's an OLC memo prohibiting the DOJ from charging sitting president but cool story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 5 hours ago, ewsieg said: Politically this could result in the DOJ not charging Trump. Obviously those decisions should be not related, but it would be politically tough to charge Trump and not Biden, even if the evidence points to only Trump legally at fault. That said, would that be a heavy price for dems/Biden? That might help Trump fend off other GOP'ers that are looking to win the primary. I don't think anyone is happy with the thought of Biden/Trump again, but I still like Biden's odds. I like how Dems own up to things....after the midterms of course. I dont know what the likelihood that Trump would be charged in the documents case would be regardless of these recent developments. Georgia seems like the one where his liability is the highest, although I doubt any of it prevents him from running and from winning during the primary season. Until the median GOP Primary voter indicates otherwise, just hard to see any of it mattering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 Anybody else have documents in disarray and spend a lot of the last few days trying to organize and reign them in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 1 hour ago, Edman85 said: Anybody else have documents in disarray and spend a lot of the last few days trying to organize and rein them in? Yes. Always. We basically have a “pile”. Every few months I go thru it. I usually find auto and home insurance policy renewals. Old EOB medical docs. Bank statements unopened from accounts that we don’t touch. Medical bill. All the important things are stored elsewhere in a safe. I still have 2 boxes in my garage from when I cleared my office out after COVID. There were proprietary things in there but not anymore. It is amazing to think I had 2 file cabinets of papers I haven’t looked at in nearly 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 9 hours ago, oblong said: Yes. Always. We basically have a “pile”. Every few months I go thru it. I usually find auto and home insurance policy renewals. Old EOB medical docs. Bank statements unopened from accounts that we don’t touch. Medical bill. All the important things are stored elsewhere in a safe. I still have 2 boxes in my garage from when I cleared my office out after COVID. There were proprietary things in there but not anymore. It is amazing to think I had 2 file cabinets of papers I haven’t looked at in nearly 3 years. My stack got out of control during COVID, especially when I had to bring all my work stuff home. Add in that I have a bunch of stuff from the alumni club that I need to hand over to the next wave, and it was a combination of aircraft part drawings, performance reviews, EOB's, bank statements, and alumni records. Just a complete mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 HAH!!! So I'm not alone with my piles of papers then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted January 16, 2023 Author Share Posted January 16, 2023 17 hours ago, mtutiger said: I dont know what the likelihood that Trump would be charged in the documents case would be regardless of these recent developments. Georgia seems like the one where his liability is the highest, although I doubt any of it prevents him from running and from winning during the primary season. Until the median GOP Primary voter indicates otherwise, just hard to see any of it mattering Based on what I've read, it's an open and shut case for Garland. I think the only reason for pause has been the politics around it. This only makes it worse which is my only point. As for the voters, I think we saw a potential glimpse into the future of GOP without Trump as it's leader. The crazy is still there unfortunately, but Trump created a monster that is bigger than he is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted January 16, 2023 Author Share Posted January 16, 2023 18 hours ago, pfife said: There's an OLC memo prohibiting the DOJ from charging sitting president but cool story Mostly true, but I meant at least maybe recommending action to congress or at least stating action may go forward after he's out of office. To point, it's just an OLC memo as well, it has never been challenged. Nothing prevents Garland from indicting, although that doesn't mean it would hold up in SCOTUS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, Edman85 said: Anybody else have documents in disarray and spend a lot of the last few days trying to organize and reign them in? Yes, all the time. And my filing cabinets are so full I struggle to stuff new folders in there. Edited January 16, 2023 by Tiger337 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 4 hours ago, ewsieg said: As for the voters, I think we saw a potential glimpse into the future of GOP without Trump as it's leader. Trump is definitely still the leader of the GOP. He whipped the Republicans into shape and put Kevin McCarthy into the Speaker's seat. Did you not see that along with the rest of us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted January 17, 2023 Author Share Posted January 17, 2023 16 hours ago, chasfh said: Trump is definitely still the leader of the GOP. He whipped the Republicans into shape and put Kevin McCarthy into the Speaker's seat. Did you not see that along with the rest of us? Yes, I saw McCarthy struggle to win the speakership and it was the Trumpiest folks in the party that made it so difficult on him. I'm not claiming Trump is not the leader, I'm just saying I no longer feel he's entrenched as he once was. You want to change a party direction, have them lose. Trump backed candidates in federal elections lost....you can argue "bigly" when you take into account history shows mid terms favor the party not in power. https://www.politico.com/2022-election/results/trump-candidates-endorsements-11-8-22/ That's before Warnock won as well. IMO, the party leaders are done with him. McCarthy just needed all the help he could get, but privately I'm sure he's done with him. Add to that, the crazies, they are out Trumping Trump right now too. He basically has MTG as his lone strong ally in the party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 If Trump had backed someone other than McCarthy I don't think that person would have had a shot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 18 hours ago, chasfh said: Trump is definitely still the leader of the GOP. He whipped the Republicans into shape and put Kevin McCarthy into the Speaker's seat. Did you not see that along with the rest of us? Curious to see some polling on the GOP Race now that the immediate aftermath of the Midterms are behind us. DeSantis had a boomlet initially, but I suspect it was temporary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted January 17, 2023 Author Share Posted January 17, 2023 Chuck, was your first response to me a bit of sarcasm that I just didn't catch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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