buddha Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 the noise about bo horvat to detroit is getting a little louder... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaki Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 They want a young C as part of the return...you'd have to think they'd ask for Kasper + Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 35 minutes ago, buddha said: the noise about bo horvat to detroit is getting a little louder... Would be a great add. Southern Ontario kid is practically homegrown. 3 minutes ago, Shinzaki said: They want a young C as part of the return...you'd have to think they'd ask for Kasper + No way. That’s a deal killer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaki Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Yeah...but I don't think I want to part with Rasmussen because he has a unique skill set. Suter or Veleno probably won't cut it unless you add a lot..which I'm not certain I want to do with a UDFA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 14 minutes ago, Shinzaki said: Yeah...but I don't think I want to part with Rasmussen because he has a unique skill set. Suter or Veleno probably won't cut it unless you add a lot..which I'm not certain I want to do with a UDFA edvinnson would likely be on the list. if they dont want to part with a #1 pick they'll have to deal at least one of their top prospects. maybe more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 17 minutes ago, Shinzaki said: Yeah...but I don't think I want to part with Rasmussen because he has a unique skill set. Suter or Veleno probably won't cut it unless you add a lot..which I'm not certain I want to do with a UDFA Rassussen is nice player but I think he's shown he doesn't have quite level of value that would prevent me from including him in a reasonable trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaki Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 (edited) I probably put more value on him than most...I think he's ideally suited to to play the wing, and he's just about the only...right now..physical forward with some skill on the roster. I would really hate to use that for what could be a rental Edited January 24, 2023 by Shinzaki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Shinzaki said: I probably put more value on him than most...I think he's ideally suited to to play the wing, and he's just about the only...right now..physical forward with some skill on the roster. I would really hate to use that for what could be a rental the wings would only trade for horvat with a deal in place for his next contract. he will not be a rental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaki Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 sign Horvat without a deal in place for Larkin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordstanley Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 Kasper was a #8 overall pick. I'd have no hesitation including him in a deal for Horvat. Would depend on the overall deal of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaki Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 Article from Bultman on the Athletic about a deal for Horvat...to summarize...IIRC..adding him would be tricky with Larkin not signed. The ask would likely be Kasper +, (which I wouldn't do as we are not in "win now" mode) or as an alternative, Hronek, Veleno or Ras +...I would not be adverse to a package with Hronek as the centerpiece and Veleno as an add on. I am not trading Ras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 No on Hronek, Kasper or Ras. The offer is Zadina, Veleno, a 1st rounder from 2024 or 2025 (not 2023), Cross Hanas, and choose any 1 of McIsaac, Viro, Albert Johansson, or Sebrango. Add a 2nd rounder if it clinches the deal. If not... If they say no, that's fine by me. As Shinzaki stated, we are not yet in "win now" mode so I have no interest whatsoever in moving any primary players or prospects. If we were a playoff team and needed a Brendan Shanahan trade and Horvat was "that guy", then I would treat it differently. But I believe this trade is a couple years premature. I want our best guys (and prospects) as the core of our team, not traded away in a short term not-ready-yet move. One last question: If we do trade for Horvat, and sign him long-term... is that a message to Larkin that he can be replaced? That Stevie Y has no problem moving on from him if they cannot come to an agreement? He's done it before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 you have a valuable asset? here, take all of our middling role players! that should do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 i have no problem trading rasmussen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Shinzaki said: . I am not trading Ras He certainly seems to be showing signs of turning into a much better player than we had resigned ourselves to. His play last night was approaching what could almost be called 'dominant' . OK - maybe he's not quite there yet, but I'm certainly beginning to re-consider that he may have still unrealized upside. He wouldn't be the 1st big man that took a little longer to grow into his body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothfacekilla Posted January 27, 2023 Author Share Posted January 27, 2023 I would be willing to part with anyone in the organization that isn't Marco Kasper, Seider, or Raymond. I would be hesitant on some other guys (and I'd like to sign Walman to an extension for example before exploring a trade) but would move them in the right deal. For some reason the vibe I get with Horvat is that it is going to be an overpay to acquire him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 6 minutes ago, slothfacekilla said: I would be willing to part with anyone in the organization that isn't Marco Kasper, Seider, or Raymond. I would be hesitant on some other guys (and I'd like to sign Walman to an extension for example before exploring a trade) but would move them in the right deal. For some reason the vibe I get with Horvat is that it is going to be an overpay to acquire him. if your core is seider/raymond/kasper and potentially wallinder/edvinsson/hanas, do you WANT to deal for horvat and sign larkin? the thing i fear is that the wings end up in the mushy middle and never have enough top players to compete for titles. that's my bigger fear in trading for horvat. i - like everyone else - dont want to give up the possibility that those prospects turn into our tampa bay-like foundation for a 27 year old who we will be paying big money after his peak. i guess that's why stevie gets paid the big bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaki Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: He certainly seems to be showing signs of turning into a much better player than we had resigned ourselves to. His play last night was approaching what could almost be called 'dominant' . OK - maybe he's not quite there yet, but I'm certainly beginning to re-consider that he may have still unrealized upside. He wouldn't be the 1st big man that took a little longer to grow into his body. I wonder if he wouldn't have been better served playing on the wing from day one. The prospect of a big physical C with a bit of a scoring touch is tempting, but he really looks good on the wing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordstanley Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 I think it's way too early to assume Kasper is part of our core. #8 overall picks are already getting into iffy territory. We drafted Zadina at #6 and Rasmussen at #9, what if Kasper is little better than them? What are the chances Kasper will ever be good as Horvat - 25%, 33%? Fun fact: Horvat has scored 31 goals already this year. Zadina has 25 career goals and Rasmussen career goals. Why do we think the Canucks would see much value in them. Let alone Veleno, McIsaac, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Shinzaki said: I wonder if he wouldn't have been better served playing on the wing from day one. The prospect of a big physical C with a bit of a scoring touch is tempting, but he really looks good on the wing could well be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 46 minutes ago, lordstanley said: I think it's way too early to assume Kasper is part of our core. #8 overall picks are already getting into iffy territory. We drafted Zadina at #6 and Rasmussen at #9, what if Kasper is little better than them? What are the chances Kasper will ever be good as Horvat - 25%, 33%? Fun fact: Horvat has scored 31 goals already this year. Zadina has 25 career goals and Rasmussen career goals. Why do we think the Canucks would see much value in them. Let alone Veleno, McIsaac, etc. i trust the current administration's judgment on swedish league prospects. as to your "fun fact," i agree. as i obnoxiously pointed out earlier, teams arent going to want our bad players. they wont be enticed because you throw MORE of them into the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothfacekilla Posted January 27, 2023 Author Share Posted January 27, 2023 31 minutes ago, lordstanley said: I think it's way too early to assume Kasper is part of our core. #8 overall picks are already getting into iffy territory. We drafted Zadina at #6 and Rasmussen at #9, what if Kasper is little better than them? What are the chances Kasper will ever be good as Horvat - 25%, 33%? Fun fact: Horvat has scored 31 goals already this year. Zadina has 25 career goals and Rasmussen career goals. Why do we think the Canucks would see much value in them. Let alone Veleno, McIsaac, etc. Well Horvat was a 9th pick overall so by that logic wouldn't Kasper be a better prospect than him? I think that just shows that not all draft slots are created equal. You're probably right as far as his chances of becoming that good but for me Kasper has shown enough that I think it is a worthy gamble to hold onto him. He's shown good work ethic and plays a responsible game in the SHL against adults at age 18. He's currently on pace to be slightly ahead of Mika Zibanejad's age 18 season PPG: https://www.quanthockey.com/shl/en/player-age/18-year-old-shl-players.html His points are similar to Raymond's last SHL season and he's a year younger than Raymond was and Kasper is playing center. I also think he passes the eye test from what I've seen. He has really good skating and puck protection. His shot seems to be improving as well. Right now I see him as a potential top end second line center with a small chance to be a good 1C with more great development. That's tough to find so I am clinging to that for all I can until the Wings get some more depth in their system. To your last point, I imagine the Canucks would be interested in Rasmussen with how he has been improving especially as a local boy, but I agree they wouldn't want the rest. I think we all need to forget McIsaac's name he is awful in Grand Rapids. All those injuries really kept him from developing his defensive game he seems lost. I imagine Veleno is seen as useful to most teams but probably isn't much more than a throw in at this point. 2 hours ago, buddha said: if your core is seider/raymond/kasper and potentially wallinder/edvinsson/hanas, do you WANT to deal for horvat and sign larkin? the thing i fear is that the wings end up in the mushy middle and never have enough top players to compete for titles. that's my bigger fear in trading for horvat. i - like everyone else - dont want to give up the possibility that those prospects turn into our tampa bay-like foundation for a 27 year old who we will be paying big money after his peak. i guess that's why stevie gets paid the big bucks. Honestly if it were me I do not trade for Horvat and I trade Larkin before this deadline. Horvat in and Larkin out feels like cycling deck chairs at the end of the day, and I can't imagine the Wings paying both of them 1C money but maybe they would? It would absolutely suck to lose their current best offensive player by trading Larkin, and it sets back the rebuild a bit, but I would rather do that than pay him like $10 million for 8 years. But then again I have no idea what he's really after moneywise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 2 hours ago, buddha said: if your core is seider/raymond/kasper and potentially wallinder/edvinsson/hanas, do you WANT to deal for horvat and sign larkin? the thing i fear is that the wings end up in the mushy middle and never have enough top players to compete for titles. that's my bigger fear in trading for horvat. i - like everyone else - dont want to give up the possibility that those prospects turn into our tampa bay-like foundation for a 27 year old who we will be paying big money after his peak. i guess that's why stevie gets paid the big bucks. This is where I'm at. Maybe add Buium and Mazar (at U of Denver) into the mix because I believe they are showing themselves as belonging in a potential future Red Wings core... Also, Hronek (I know quite a few in here are pretty dead set against him based on history) has shown enough improvement that I'm reluctant to let him go. As far as I'm concerned, he's a part of the core, at least for now, until he proves otherwise to me. And as a 2nd pairing RH'ed D, who else do we have? We have NOONE as a RH'd D otherwise, aside from Seider. So that's 1st pairing, what about 2nd and 3rd? I'm reluctant to let go of anyone that might fix a hole on the team, but just creates another gaping hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 3 hours ago, buddha said: you have a valuable asset? here, take all of our middling role players! that should do it. Without a contract... He's a rental. And his value just dropped significantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 1 hour ago, lordstanley said: I think it's way too early to assume Kasper is part of our core. #8 overall picks are already getting into iffy territory. We drafted Zadina at #6 and Rasmussen at #9, what if Kasper is little better than them? What are the chances Kasper will ever be good as Horvat - 25%, 33%? It's not Kasper's chances at issue. It's the timeframe. 1 hour ago, lordstanley said: ... Fun fact: Horvat has scored 31 goals already this year. Zadina has 25 career goals and Rasmussen career goals. Why do we think the Canucks would see much value in them. Let alone Veleno, McIsaac, etc. Horvat is a rental. Lower return value than what people think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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