RedRamage Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 41 minutes ago, buddha said: you either trust brad holmes or you dont. if they think levis or stroud (i assume young goes to the texans at 1 but you never know) could develop into an nfl game changing qb then you draft him. if you dont, then you probably dont. at some point they probably need to take a qb. doesnt have to be this year, but i assumed that was their plan all along. but plans change, perhaps their plans have changed? we'll see. FWIW, I would be nice to take a QB and NOT need that QB to be the starter that fall. It would be nice to take a QB either round 1 or round 2 and develop him for a year or so. Even if we take a QB with the Rams pick, I'd love to have that person next year because Goff is playing well enough that we're winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted December 12, 2022 Author Share Posted December 12, 2022 35 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: I mean, Brad Holmes was one of the major voices in the room that drafted Goff after trading multiple 1sts. I don't think they draft a QB. I'm also becoming certain he took Goff back in a trade to be the future QB. I think some people were just determined to draft a QB the minute Stafford was traded. Agreed... I think he sees Goff as a QB that - while not Mahomes - can take the Lions to heights we haven't been since at least 1991. I don't think that necessarily forecloses the possibility that they still take a QB who falls and they see as the next Mahomes. Just that they won't feel forced into that at any point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 Holmes was on the staff that traded up for Goff in the draft, and he traded for him again with the Lions. He believes in Goff. With Goff’s performance this season there is no reason for Holmes to reach for a QB. Also with the team’s overall play Holmes has the luxury of talking the best player available in each of the five picks he has in the first three rounds. They will seriously upgrade the defense and get depth at guard and RB. At this point the key question for next season is not about the QB. it is about the OC. Will he stay or will he go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4hzglory Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, Jason_R said: Holmes was on the staff that traded up for Goff in the draft, and he traded for him again with the Lions. He believes in Goff. With Goff’s performance this season there is no reason for Holmes to reach for a QB. Also with the team’s overall play Holmes has the luxury of talking the best player available in each of the five picks he has in the first three rounds. They will seriously upgrade the defense and get depth at guard and RB. At this point the key question for next season is not about the QB. it is about the OC. Will he stay or will he go? I don't think anyone is saying Holmes should reach for a QB. Only that if he believes in one who is available, now is the perfect time to take him with the extra high pick and the ability to have that player sit behind Goff for a year. If Holmes doesn't believe in anyone, then he definitely shouldn't reach for one. Either way, I firmly believe Goff will be the starter in 2023. The question for me is will his backup be his future cheaper successor, or will that person be picked up down the road longer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 23 minutes ago, RedRamage said: FWIW, I would be nice to take a QB and NOT need that QB to be the starter that fall. It would be nice to take a QB either round 1 or round 2 and develop him for a year or so. Even if we take a QB with the Rams pick, I'd love to have that person next year because Goff is playing well enough that we're winning. that's why i assumed they would take one this year. let him sit behind goff for at least a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 Holmes was also on a staff known for trading away draft assets for the right player. So if he doesn’t think the right player is in this draft, it wouldn’t surprise me to see him trade away assets in 2024/25/26 drafts to get a QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagnam Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Jason_R said: Holmes was also on a staff known for trading away draft assets for the right player. So if he doesn’t think the right player is in this draft, it wouldn’t surprise me to see him trade away assets in 2024/25/26 drafts to get a QB. This one will be interesting to see. Holmes may be the draft guy and Snead may have been the trade away the future guy. Edited December 12, 2022 by sagnam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagnam Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 1 hour ago, buddha said: you either trust brad holmes or you dont. if they think levis or stroud (i assume young goes to the texans at 1 but you never know) could develop into an nfl game changing qb then you draft him. if you dont, then you probably dont. at some point they probably need to take a qb. doesnt have to be this year, but i assumed that was their plan all along. but plans change, perhaps their plans have changed? we'll see. This is where I finally landed in my old age when it comes to drafting. At some point either your staff can identify good players or can’t. Higher draft picks are nice to get more options and allow a bad staff to accidentally get the right guy more often. But talented evaluators will find the right guys later as well, which is the only way to have sustained success (that or a once-in-a-lifetime QB). This year it’s the best of both worlds because of the Rams pick. Lions can win out and still get a high pick. And since I’m at the point that I trust Brad to pick the right guy more often than not, the decision to draft a QB doesn’t necessarily say anything about Goff. It’s probably is more indicative of the draft options. If he sees a once-in-a-generation guy at the top of the draft do we really think Goff would prevent him from picking that guy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRamage Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 11 minutes ago, sagnam said: This one will be interesting to see. Holmes may be the draft guy and Snead may have been the trade away the future guy. Will be interesting to see. Yeah, I don't think we can automatically assume that Holmes was/is a guy who's pro-trading away picks. I mean, we also can't say he's anti-trading either. But I do seem to remember hearing one quote that the Rams were willing to trade away top picks because they felt comfortable that Holmes would find diamonds in the later rounds to losing those high picks wouldn't hurt as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 What I like is that the ability to find players late in the draft has transferred to the Lions. St Brown, Rodriguez, Jospeh all look to be future starters (St Brown is obvious). Houston looks like he can be a pass rushing specialists which is tremendous value for a 6th rounder. The Lions have two 6th rounders who are playing a big role on this team. A lot of times with executives from good team you find out the success wasn't the assistant like with Quinn. It's looking like Holmes really was the brains behind the Rams talent evaluation. I would also tip my cap to Sheila since Brad Holmes was not on the radar when the search began. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRamage Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 Anyone else notice that there appeared to be a minor scuffle at the end of the game with a player or two? It was pretty brief but it looked like a Lions player was being pulled away/back from one of the Vikings by some coaches. I couldn't make out who it was though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 I'm looking at the QB situation this way. The #1 job belongs to Goff for the remainder of this season and probably next year. My big question is who is the backup? Nate Sudfeld, He's played in 5 games in 4 years...he's no Earl Morrall, hell he's not even Don Strock....#3. There is no one listed on the roster. I'm sure things will change next year, but looking at the injury situation around the league (San Francisco, LA Rams, I'd like someone who can step in and play somewhat well. I'd love to see a Taylor Heinike type step into the backup role. Draft a project who shows NFL possibilities and let him learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRamage Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/vikings-lions-recap-minnesota-abysmal-defense-wastes-great-kirk-cousins-game-34-23-loss I found this article interesting. It's obviously from a Vikings perspective, but the article talks repeatedly about how the Vikings defense was horrible and that the defense wasted a great game by Cousins and Jefferson. It goes on and on about the putrid defense. It doesn't make any mention at all about how the Lions offense is actually pretty darn good. Again it's a Vikings piece so I'm not surprised and I'm not even condemning them for this. Rather I'm pointing out that we has Lions fans have often done the same. We've often talked about how bad this or that aspect of the Lions are without necessarily giving credit the opposition. It's worth remembering when we lambast our team for their issues that sometimes you gotta give a little credit the team lining up on the other side of the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRamage Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 20 hours ago, Sports_Freak said: Was it just my imagination or did Sewell take a swing at a Vikings player? Was it after his catch? What that what you were talking about? (see the twitter video here about half way down the page: https://www.si.com/nfl/lions/news/what-theyre-saying-lions-beat-vikings) If that's what you're talking about I think was Sewell just reacting and trying to get the Viking defender away from him who was trying to knock out the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 PFF grades came out, Goff was the highest graded offensive player at 83.9 and I don't remember the exact number but Swift and Jamal Williams were either the 2 lowest or near the bottom among offensive players. Defensively Hutch was highest at 91.5 followed by Anzalone at 87, the worst were Paschal at 52 and Okudah at 43. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 1 hour ago, RedRamage said: Yeah, I don't think we can automatically assume that Holmes was/is a guy who's pro-trading away picks. I mean, we also can't say he's anti-trading either. But I do seem to remember hearing one quote that the Rams were willing to trade away top picks because they felt comfortable that Holmes would find diamonds in the later rounds to losing those high picks wouldn't hurt as much. Nobody is automatically assuming anything, but Holmes knows as well as anyone that sometimes the value of the players available is less than the value of the pick. Anyway, he has done a great job of giving himself roster flexibility for next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 Holmes like many other GMs draft on a tier based and round based system and not necessarily a flat "big board" where you line up guys 1 through 300 or whatever. For example he will assign a certain number of players a 1st round grade, 2nd round grade etc. and if he is picking at say 15 but only has 13 guys with a 1st round grade he is either going to try to trade up to get one of those guys he has at a 1st round grade or trade back and pick up extra picks instead of just taking whoever he has ranked highest on his board. This is why he traded up for Jamo last year, he was the last guy on their board that they gave a true 1st round grade to and he wanted to insure he got that guy. Its also the same reason the Vikings traded back, they didn't have Jamo or any other player at a 1st round grade so instead of just taking a guy there cause he is the highest left they traded back to get extra picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 (edited) Goff absolutely deserves credit for how he’s played recently. It’s been damn impressive. I think the biggest reason for his success comes from how well our offensive line has been playing and Ben Johnson’s game plans and play calls are are dominating opposing DC’s. Goff has a ton of time and there always seems to be an open target somewhere. This plays right into his strengths and helps to make up for his lack of mobility. This run gives me hope that they can build a playoff winning team without a marquee QB and choose to address the defense now and worry about future QB sometime down the road. Nice spot to be in. Edited December 12, 2022 by Hongbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 Taylor Decker deserves a ton of respect. He took a lot of heat in the past and some of it was deserved but he’s been consistently dominant and has taken his game to another level. He should be a Pro Bowler this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Hongbit said: Taylor Decker deserves a ton of respect. He took a lot of heat in the past and some of it was deserved but he’s been consistently dominant and has taken his game to another level. He should be a Pro Bowler this year. Decker was a turnstyle early on in the 2019 season, that week 1 game at Arizona that year specifically comes to mind but other than that tough stretch he has been really good to great his whole Lions career. Atleast with what I can remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 I'm kind of surprised Decker hasn't gotten more Pro Bowl buzz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 Was just thinking about this, not that its a huge deal to most folks but the folks that do care about prime time games I bet next year we are going to be a hot choice for quite a few National games. It seems like we are generating a lot of buzz nationally and even the folks that aren't Lions fan seem to enjoy watching them and rooting for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 15 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Easy schedules are great to get into the playoffs. But once you get in, there aren't too many easy games. Except if you play Minnesota. 😅😅 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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