Motown Bombers Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 I'm not sure why people quickly wrote off going after Higgins. He would be a perfect fit. He's a big outside receiver who can go and catch those 50/50 balls. He would be a perfect compliment to St Brown and Williams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 Weren't the Lions rumored to be interested in Debo Samuel last year? I know they since drafted Williams but I don't think they would be opposed to trading for a receiver who just turned 24. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 Shocking news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 2 hours ago, Motown Bombers said: I'm not sure why people quickly wrote off going after Higgins. He would be a perfect fit. He's a big outside receiver who can go and catch those 50/50 balls. He would be a perfect compliment to St Brown and Williams. This is why Im for drafting Quinten Johnson. Looking at the wr draft rankings there's some intriguing guys but he's the only one that I seen in the top 15 or so that is above 6'2 and fits the bill of the stereotypical big outside receiver that can go up and get those balls so if we want to get a guy like that which I think would be a big help he may be the only legit option in the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL2 Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Stanley70 said: Spotrac has us at 16M right now. If we cut Brockers (10M) and Vitai (6M) that gets us to 32M. If we cut both Harris (4M) and Okwara (7M) that gets us to 42M. Best case without restructures. It is not a given that both Romeo and Harris will be cut, probably unlikely. So it could be less that. I am guessing that they are going to resign Cominsky and and Williams at 4M a year each. So that leaves 34M. Plus they usually have 8-10M leftover for emergencies, so that gets us to 26M. On offense they will need to add a a starter at OG. They only have one TE under contract in Mitchell, so they need at least 1. They need a swing tackle and depth on the interior. Plus a back up QB. On defense they only have Levi and McNeil under contract at DT, probably need at least 2 there. At LB they only have Barnes and Rodrigo, probably need 2 there. They need at least 2 CB's that are playable and a safety since Walker is out. Obviously they will fill some of those needs in the draft but if they eat up 15M a year on Dean or Bradbury they will only have about 11M leftover to fill all of the rest of the needs. They could do a big restructure with Goff or Ragnow pushing some money out to future years. Or backload a contract with more guarenteed money due later in the deal. We'll see but in order to make it work with a big time FA they are going to have to push guarenteed money out a few years when Sewell and ARSB will be due contracts and Goff as well. Do you think that the cap hit in the first year of a contract is the same as the aav? Also the scenario you proposed goes counterintuitive with your first. You did prove they would have the cap space to sign a big name. The question is whether that it is smart. But you said they couldn't have the cap space to do it. Your idea is just wrong in that the Lions have more cap space than most and with how nfl contracts are structured. They will be able to afford just about anyone they want to. (For your future refence when the Lions signed flowers to 5/90 his cap hit year one was 6 million) Edited February 24, 2023 by KL2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL2 Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 4 hours ago, Motown Bombers said: I'm not sure why people quickly wrote off going after Higgins. He would be a perfect fit. He's a big outside receiver who can go and catch those 50/50 balls. He would be a perfect compliment to St Brown and Williams. Just cause a question of resources. You are not only giving up a pick, but a section of cap space as well. So it becomes does adding a big expensive wr benefit us more than adding a cheap wr (at 18 if you wanted) or adding to the league worse defense? On paper it makes sense, lions would look great with Higgins. But with a capped league and the other needs, it might not be the best move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley70 Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 4 hours ago, KL2 said: Do you think that the cap hit in the first year of a contract is the same as the aav? Also the scenario you proposed goes counterintuitive with your first. You did prove they would have the cap space to sign a big name. The question is whether that it is smart. But you said they couldn't have the cap space to do it. Your idea is just wrong in that the Lions have more cap space than most and with how nfl contracts are structured. They will be able to afford just about anyone they want to. (For your future refence when the Lions signed flowers to 5/90 his cap hit year one was 6 million) I said "It's looking like Detroit will not be big players in free agency". I did the math, in order to add a big name they will have to do some financial shenanigans to make it work. And as i said they could. BTW yes Trey Flowers cap hit was 6.5M the first year, and in year 3 it was 20M. And the cap space teams have right now will be different from when free agency begins March 15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 3 hours ago, Stanley70 said: I said "It's looking like Detroit will not be big players in free agency". I did the math, in order to add a big name they will have to do some financial shenanigans to make it work. And as i said they could. BTW yes Trey Flowers cap hit was 6.5M the first year, and in year 3 it was 20M. And the cap space teams have right now will be different from when free agency begins March 15. And so will the Lions cap space be different March 15th. They already $10 million. A lot of teams are starting with less. The Packers and Vikings currently are over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 7 hours ago, KL2 said: Just cause a question of resources. You are not only giving up a pick, but a section of cap space as well. So it becomes does adding a big expensive wr benefit us more than adding a cheap wr (at 18 if you wanted) or adding to the league worse defense? On paper it makes sense, lions would look great with Higgins. But with a capped league and the other needs, it might not be the best move. They have multiple resources. The proposed trade is a 1st and 4th. The Lions still have another 1st plus two 2nd's to address the defense. They have the opportunity to make this position elite. They also project to have $122 million in cap space in 2024. The cap will go up. The Eagles finished last year 9-8 after starting 2-5 and went and traded for AJ Brown and signed him to an extension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 9 hours ago, RandyMarsh said: This is why Im for drafting Quinten Johnson. Looking at the wr draft rankings there's some intriguing guys but he's the only one that I seen in the top 15 or so that is above 6'2 and fits the bill of the stereotypical big outside receiver that can go up and get those balls so if we want to get a guy like that which I think would be a big help he may be the only legit option in the draft. NOT true: 1 Quentin Johnston 215lbs 6-4 4.40 91.4 Quentin Johnston has pretty much perfect measurables, standing 6-4 and weighing in at just over 210 lbs with legit 4.4 speed. H... 2 Jordan Addison 175lbs 6-0 4.39 89.4 Jordan Addison is an outstanding NFL prospect who is a prototypical slot player with the deep-speed coaches drool over. He howeve... 3 Jalin Hyatt 180lbs 6-0 4.29 89.3 2022 has proved to be a spectacular year for Jalin Hyatt where he exploded onto the national scene. He's emerged as the premier de... 4 Jaxon Smith-Njigba 200lbs 6-1 4.48 88.3 Smith-Njigba began the 2022 campaign as one of the top receivers in college football – if not the top receiver – and a candidate f... 8 Rashee Rice 200lbs 6-0 4.45 86.2 Rashee Rice is a solid pro prospect, who has pretty much everything you look for in a pro receiver, he's got good speed, nice over... 10 Cedric Tillman 215lbs 6-3 4.50 84.9 Tillman tracks the ball well downfield and consistently runs under long throws. Strong runner with the ball with enough agility t... 12 Jonathan Mingo 226lbs 6-2 4.46 84.6 Mingo is a super tough wideout who will dominate smaller corners. Has the ability to be a mismatch in the screen game and reminds ... 13 Kayshon Boutte 205lbs 6-0 4.40 84.2 Boutte is one of the most athletically gifted players in the 2023 class, who possess great speed, acceleration, and size and com... 14 Dontayvion Wicks 212lbs 6-2 4.40 84.0 Has elite balance tight-roping the sideline and in-and-out of his breaks, showing excellent start-stop ability and burst. Has goo... 15 Rakim Jarrett 190lbs 6-0 4.43 84.0 Rakim Jarrett is an excellent slot pro prospect, he displays elite long speed and quickness combined with very good acceleration... 16 Andrei Iosivas 212lbs 6-3 4.29 83.7 Andrei Iosivas is an interesting prospect who has a chance to be the fastest player at the NFL combine - which will only boost his... 19 A.T. Perry 195lbs 6-5 4.48 83.0 He’s very good in contested-catch situations, using his frame effectively to make plays facing the quarterback. Perry also shows a... 21 Dontay Demus Jr. 215lbs 6-4 4.52 82.1 Dontay Demus Jr. is a good pro prospect who has pretty much everything you look for in a pro-style X-type receiver. He's big a... 22 Trey Palmer 193lbs 6-1 4.38 82.0 WR Trey Palmer of @HuskerFBNation showed impressive speed on a tight throw from Malik Cunningham on a corner route. He registered ... 24 Tyler Scott 185lbs 5-11 4.29 80.5 Tracks the ball well downfield and shows good ball skills, including the ability to go up and high-point it in contested-catch sit... 5 Josh Downs 175lbs 5-10 4.34 87.5 Josh Downs has proved that despite his size he can be productive posting four 1k seasons over his career. Most of his drawbacks as... 6 Zay Flowers 182lbs 5-9 4.37 87.1 Flowers is a super exciting deep-threat jitter-bug kind of player. He has an elite combination of speed, acceleration, and overall... 7 Nathaniel Dell 163lbs 5-10 4.42 86.5 Nathaniel Dell is a super exciting smurf-size receiver ideally suited to a classic run-n-shoot offense. He's an outstanding quick ... 9 Marvin Mims Jr. 184lbs 5-11 4.46 85.2 Marvin Mims is a quality pro prospect who has excellent hands, good speed and is elite at making yards after the catch. He howe... 11 Xavier Hutchinson 207lbs 6-3 4.51 84.9 Xavier Hutchinson is a hugely productive wide receiver with great hands and an innate feel for the position. He however doesn't ha... 17 Michael Wilson 216lbs 6-2 4.49 83.5 Micheal Wilson is a decent pro prospect, who has a nice combination of size, hands, and quickness and is ideally suited to play th... 18 Jayden Reed 191lbs 5-11 4.44 83.1 Although Reed is more of a possession target than a field stretcher, he fiercely competitive demeanor and run-after-catch ability ... 20 Parker Washington 215lbs 5-10 4.49 82.6 Parker Washington has been a good college slot receiver who produced good although not great numbers at Penn State. He's got good ... 23 Jalen Moreno-Cropp... 171lbs 6-0 4.48 82.0 Cropper plays with a smoothness and balance, and Cropper shows a knack for setting up defensive backs. A savvy, natural pass-catc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 PS: Sorry for the crappy formatting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 8 hours ago, KL2 said: Just cause a question of resources. You are not only giving up a pick, but a section of cap space as well. So it becomes does adding a big expensive wr benefit us more than adding a cheap wr (at 18 if you wanted) or adding to the league worse defense? On paper it makes sense, lions would look great with Higgins. But with a capped league and the other needs, it might not be the best move. I don't think it's the best move at all... You can find a WR in the mid rounds to do what we need him to do... be a Chark or Chark-lite. 3rd/ 5th/ 6th rounds... a decent WR will be available if Holmes can find him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley70 Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 27 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: They have multiple resources. The proposed trade is a 1st and 4th. The Lions still have another 1st plus two 2nd's to address the defense. They have the opportunity to make this position elite. They also project to have $122 million in cap space in 2024. The cap will go up. The Eagles finished last year 9-8 after starting 2-5 and went and traded for AJ Brown and signed him to an extension. Holmes has stated he wants to build through the draft, so giving up a bunch of draft picks for what may be our 3rd best WR doesn't seem like a move he would make. If he does make a move like that i would guess it will be for a CB1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 I don’t get the Addison love. Great college player but he’s tiny. Not sure he’s suited for the NFL game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 5 minutes ago, Stanley70 said: Holmes has stated he wants to build through the draft, so giving up a bunch of draft picks for what may be our 3rd best WR doesn't seem like a move he would make. If he does make a move like that i would guess it will be for a CB1. They have built a foundation through the draft and the proposed trade was a 1st and a 4th so it's not a bunch of picks and you are acquiring a receiver who just turned 24 in January. St Brown is the only proven receiver on the roster. It's not like adding Higgins would be a luxury. The Lions would still have another 1st, presumably the 6th overall pick, plus a pair of 2nd round picks and a 3rd to add to the roster and the defense. I make the trade if it's just a 1st and 4th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 (edited) 34 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: NOT true: 1 Quentin Johnston 215lbs 6-4 4.40 91.4 Quentin Johnston has pretty much perfect measurables, standing 6-4 and weighing in at just over 210 lbs with legit 4.4 speed. H... 2 Jordan Addison 175lbs 6-0 4.39 89.4 Jordan Addison is an outstanding NFL prospect who is a prototypical slot player with the deep-speed coaches drool over. He howeve... 3 Jalin Hyatt 180lbs 6-0 4.29 89.3 2022 has proved to be a spectacular year for Jalin Hyatt where he exploded onto the national scene. He's emerged as the premier de... 4 Jaxon Smith-Njigba 200lbs 6-1 4.48 88.3 Smith-Njigba began the 2022 campaign as one of the top receivers in college football – if not the top receiver – and a candidate f... 8 Rashee Rice 200lbs 6-0 4.45 86.2 Rashee Rice is a solid pro prospect, who has pretty much everything you look for in a pro receiver, he's got good speed, nice over... 10 Cedric Tillman 215lbs 6-3 4.50 84.9 Tillman tracks the ball well downfield and consistently runs under long throws. Strong runner with the ball with enough agility t... 12 Jonathan Mingo 226lbs 6-2 4.46 84.6 Mingo is a super tough wideout who will dominate smaller corners. Has the ability to be a mismatch in the screen game and reminds ... 13 Kayshon Boutte 205lbs 6-0 4.40 84.2 Boutte is one of the most athletically gifted players in the 2023 class, who possess great speed, acceleration, and size and com... 14 Dontayvion Wicks 212lbs 6-2 4.40 84.0 Has elite balance tight-roping the sideline and in-and-out of his breaks, showing excellent start-stop ability and burst. Has goo... 15 Rakim Jarrett 190lbs 6-0 4.43 84.0 Rakim Jarrett is an excellent slot pro prospect, he displays elite long speed and quickness combined with very good acceleration... 16 Andrei Iosivas 212lbs 6-3 4.29 83.7 Andrei Iosivas is an interesting prospect who has a chance to be the fastest player at the NFL combine - which will only boost his... 19 A.T. Perry 195lbs 6-5 4.48 83.0 He’s very good in contested-catch situations, using his frame effectively to make plays facing the quarterback. Perry also shows a... 21 Dontay Demus Jr. 215lbs 6-4 4.52 82.1 Dontay Demus Jr. is a good pro prospect who has pretty much everything you look for in a pro-style X-type receiver. He's big a... 22 Trey Palmer 193lbs 6-1 4.38 82.0 WR Trey Palmer of @HuskerFBNation showed impressive speed on a tight throw from Malik Cunningham on a corner route. He registered ... 24 Tyler Scott 185lbs 5-11 4.29 80.5 Tracks the ball well downfield and shows good ball skills, including the ability to go up and high-point it in contested-catch sit... 5 Josh Downs 175lbs 5-10 4.34 87.5 Josh Downs has proved that despite his size he can be productive posting four 1k seasons over his career. Most of his drawbacks as... 6 Zay Flowers 182lbs 5-9 4.37 87.1 Flowers is a super exciting deep-threat jitter-bug kind of player. He has an elite combination of speed, acceleration, and overall... 7 Nathaniel Dell 163lbs 5-10 4.42 86.5 Nathaniel Dell is a super exciting smurf-size receiver ideally suited to a classic run-n-shoot offense. He's an outstanding quick ... 9 Marvin Mims Jr. 184lbs 5-11 4.46 85.2 Marvin Mims is a quality pro prospect who has excellent hands, good speed and is elite at making yards after the catch. He howe... 11 Xavier Hutchinson 207lbs 6-3 4.51 84.9 Xavier Hutchinson is a hugely productive wide receiver with great hands and an innate feel for the position. He however doesn't ha... 17 Michael Wilson 216lbs 6-2 4.49 83.5 Micheal Wilson is a decent pro prospect, who has a nice combination of size, hands, and quickness and is ideally suited to play th... 18 Jayden Reed 191lbs 5-11 4.44 83.1 Although Reed is more of a possession target than a field stretcher, he fiercely competitive demeanor and run-after-catch ability ... 20 Parker Washington 215lbs 5-10 4.49 82.6 Parker Washington has been a good college slot receiver who produced good although not great numbers at Penn State. He's got good ... 23 Jalen Moreno-Cropp... 171lbs 6-0 4.48 82.0 Cropper plays with a smoothness and balance, and Cropper shows a knack for setting up defensive backs. A savvy, natural pass-catc... Sorry there isn't NOBODY but a whole what 3 to 4 other players that fit the bill of being 6'3 or taller among the top 25 WRs? While not none like I previous said(I hadn't scoured every rankings) it does basically show my overall point that there aren't many big bodied outside receivers in this draft and none that rank in Johnson's tier. Edited February 24, 2023 by RandyMarsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2702414-after-5-years-of-byu-and-its-honor-code-jamaal-williams-is-free-what-now.amp.html Article is 6 years old but is fascinating at how much he is still the same person with the same character. He’s still working closely with his uncle as his trainer. Long article but absolutely worth the read and it tells the whole story of BYU. Edited February 24, 2023 by Hongbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 So... Wagner is an interesting option. He's still a top player but you worry at his age that he can fall off any moment and he'd probably be fairly pricey for a player his age but I think he'd be a real boon for this defense. Regardless, he's likely signing with a true contender but it's fun to talk about something like this being even a remote possibility which would have been a complete fantasy a year ago. The Lions have come a long way in a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL2 Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said: They have multiple resources. The proposed trade is a 1st and 4th. The Lions still have another 1st plus two 2nd's to address the defense. They have the opportunity to make this position elite. They also project to have $122 million in cap space in 2024. The cap will go up. The Eagles finished last year 9-8 after starting 2-5 and went and traded for AJ Brown and signed him to an extension. OK, I guess just ignore everything and keep making the same point. Helpful. Yes they have other resources. But, they are giving up a first round pick so I think even you can agree by doing that you have less resources. 2 is more than 1 no? And you ignored the cap space this year. If they give Higgins $12 million, that is again less to help this year, no? 35 million less than 54 million, no? And whoooo the Lions have a bunch of cap space in 2024. Who cares? Im sure some of that will be eaten up by new deals, extensions and who they sign this year. Let's worry about hwo we use our resources this year before we give up picks AND space that might or might not be there in 2024. And who the Flip gives a crap about the Eagles and what they did. They were in a much different spot with a top 10 defense, ours is 32nd. 32nd is much worse than 10, no? That changes things to make that comparison is just stupid. Again, Higgins makes sens in video games. This ain't one. The Lions have far more pressing needs. If you want a WR draft one, or sign one. That way you aren't giving up cash AND picks like you would with Higgins and leave yourself with fewer resources to add quality defensive players....or a RB...or a Guard or whatever the heck else you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL2 Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 4 hours ago, Stanley70 said: I said "It's looking like Detroit will not be big players in free agency". I did the math, in order to add a big name they will have to do some financial shenanigans to make it work. And as i said they could. BTW yes Trey Flowers cap hit was 6.5M the first year, and in year 3 it was 20M. And the cap space teams have right now will be different from when free agency begins March 15. Let's look at your first post "It's looking like Detroit will not be big players in free agency, or resigning Chark. Even if they cut most of the guys on the bubble like Okwara and Harris that will only leave them with enough to resign a couple of their own free agents, plus maybe a couple of mid tier guys." You literally wrote they will only have the cap space to sign their own guys and couple of mid tier free agents. You in no way in that post wrote that they could sign a big name. You literally said they can't. That is what people disputed. Then in your next post you came and said, well...they could but it would eat up everything. In no way does it say that in your first post in quotes above. You were wrong in your break down in the cap in that you don't understand how contract work. Yes flowers went up in year 3. Not sure what the heck that has to do with anything. It didn't stop the Lions from signing him no? Just like if Bradberry is 5 million this year and 25 million in 2026 it won't mean they don't have the cap space to sign him in 2023. And yes teams caps will be different. Again, what does that have to do with anything and it in no way deters from the fact the Lions do have the cap space to sign a big name, which you said is impossible because they only have the cap space to resign their own gusy and a couple of middle tier free agents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted February 24, 2023 Author Share Posted February 24, 2023 11 minutes ago, Hongbit said: I don’t get the Addison love. Great college player but he’s tiny. Not sure he’s suited for the NFL game. He's this years DeVonta Smith. They seem like identical players, undersized and lightning fast. If you didn't think highly of Smith as a prospect coming out of Bama you likely won't think much of Addison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL2 Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 38 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: I don't think it's the best move at all... You can find a WR in the mid rounds to do what we need him to do... be a Chark or Chark-lite. 3rd/ 5th/ 6th rounds... a decent WR will be available if Holmes can find him... I just don't get the argument cause its plays out like this. People: We don't need a QB, Jared Goff is great and on a top five offense and a leader who has been to the Super Bowl. It's stupid to draft a backup with one of our two picks because we need to address other areas. Same People: We need to add a WR to said top offense that was pretty good at the cost of picks AND cash. It's cool though we other picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 On 2/21/2023 at 11:15 PM, Hongbit said: PFF has an article suggesting the Lions trade 18 and a 4th next year to Cincinnati for Tee Higgins. Interesting to ponder. He’d also require a pretty nice extension. 18 is the same pick Philly traded last year for AJ Brown. https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-trades-2023-nfl-offseason-free-agency-draft Not interested. The Lions core receivers are Amon Ra and Jamo and the former needs to get paid in 2 years. Not only are you giving up the draft capital but you're also paying Higgins big money long term which could well prohibit the Lions from filling other more pressing needs and re-signing some key guys. I'd rather just re-sign Chark or use a draft pick on a receiver. I would have been more fine with this last year (when the Deebo rumors came out) but the Lions are in a different place now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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