Leaderboard

Smith was worse. Year after year after year of terrible draft picks and pointless trades. I think Avila had a plan and stuck with it, but ws bad at executing it. Smith didn't even have a plan.

I get that you have decided that Avila can not get any credit for any successes from players currently on the team and that any player that succeeds will be because of something Harris did. However, Randy Smith was horrible. The only thing that saved him was Gonzalez not wanting anything to do with Detroit and refusing that stupid contract.

we've investigated ourselves and found no evidence of wrongdoing.

If they trade Skubal, it will basically be throwing up the white flag and admitting it will be 5 years before the team is even remotely capable of making the playoffs.

Do you really think you've kept that opinion quiet?

Good

Last chance before it all kicks off at the draft tonight. We all love to sit back and criticize what this organization does (and for good reason), but what's YOUR plan for the off-season? Based upon what I heard from Langdon at the press conference, here's what I'm thinking: COACH: I'm doing whatever I can to bring Chris Quinn in here. They talked about building a culture of accountability and a foundation for winning. That guy has seen it and hopefully absorbed it all from Spo and the Heat organization. DRAFT: Trade down with Memphis (Clingan), San Antonio, or Portland for their pick and a future asset. Draft Devin Carter. TRADE 1: Take on Capella's remaining year (22M) from the Hawks in exchange for a future asset. Gives you a rim protector and someone that Duren can learn from. TRADE 2: Take on Wiggins' salary (~28M/2yr+1 player option) from the Warriors for future assets. Buy low on a solid forward who can space the court and defend to help you improve in the short term. TRADE 3: If Ivey wasn't in any of the above trades, you probably still need to move him for future assets. FREE AGENCY 1: You have about 15M-18M left after absorbing those contracts. Go get a veteran 3 and D wing like KCP, Trent Jr, Bruce Brown, etc. Another option here is, if you believe in Grimes as your future KCP, just keep him and use that 15-18M to absorb another contract like THJ for more future assets. FREE AGENCY 2: You can re-sign Fontecchio after all of that since you own his rights. Do so. DUREN: You can decide Duren's fate closer to the deadline. Maybe by mid-season he's starting again if he develops his defense. Maybe he's on the trade block. Either way, you've moved him to more of a developmental role and limited your worry about having to extend him for big money. LINEUP: PG - Cade, Carter SG - KCP (or THJ/Grimes), Carter SF - Wiggins, Ausar PF - Tek, Stewart C - Capella, Duren, Stewart YEAR ONE: You've added shooting, defense, vets who can play, and created a roster that makes sense on the court. Other than Cade, your youngsters are developing off the bench and not relied upon as heavily. Hopefully, you've also added a better coach. This is a 28-32 win team in the East, just outside of the play-in. You've shown improvement and gained about 5 future assets, while still getting a good pick in the 2025 draft. YEAR TWO: -Option 1: If Cade (and the other youngsters) are developing into something special, you're now fighting for a play-in spot. At the trade deadline or during the off-season, you start exploring trades to use the assets you've accumulated and Wiggins expiring contract to bring in a second star. -Option 2: If Cade (and others) didn't develop as you'd hoped, then you've got a head start on the rebuild. You don't have any long term contracts besides Cade and you've already started accumulating draft assets for the future.

That guy sitting across from him has to be Triple Seven (for those old school MTS folk)

Trading Skubal, without knowing what you’d get in return, doesn’t signal anything. Most casual fans, which comprise the majority, would not care about it after a week, if at all. Sure Tigers Twitter might freak out, but who cares. Here’s a few realities: -A starting pitcher can only impact 20% of the games a team plays. -They are prone to injury. -Skubal is only controlled for two more seasons and has Boras as his agent. He will become a free agent. -He strikes me as someone competitive who will place a premium on a winning culture (admittedly a guess here). -There is a strong likelihood that he will be on a different team in 2027. So how does trading him set this team back 5 years, if he’s likely gone in 3? I personally like having him on the team, but given all of the deficiencies we have throughout the organization, if he nets a haul from a team who is thinking playoffs and has depth to move, we’d need to be receptive. He’s not a distressed player, so absolutely no reason to give him away, but trading him would also not doom this organization long term. If done properly, it might actually accelerate our competitiveness.

The best thing to happen during the Randy Smith era was Juan Gonzalez turning down his 8 year/ $140 million offer at the start of the 2000 season. Terrible decision by Juan, great for the Tigers. 2nd best move was trading Greg Gohr for Damion Easley. But then he gave Easley a big contract extension and we ended up eating most of that. None of his other moves really came out to the Tigers' advantage. Terrible GM.

That is an interesting take on trading Skubal. I am not a proponent of trading Skubal let me just start off by saying that but let's view it through a non-we've been rebuilding for 7 years lens. Skubal is a Boras-represented player with arm injury history as fresh as last year and is signed through 2026 I believe so 2 1/2 more years. If Baltimore comes to you and says hey we are willing to trade you Basallo, Mayo, and a couple of others off of their non-top 100 prospects which addresses your future at Catcher and 3rd Base and some possible other fliers. I would be hard-pressed to pass that up. I know people are going to say you have to get Holliday but assuming you couldn't the above would be hard not to say yes to. Pitching injuries can happen at any time and Skubal has not shown the durability of a JV or Scherzer so while he is a fantastic player there are absolutely scenarios in which I would trade him and it not be seen as a white flag at least in my eyes but rather a calculated risk move.

I didn't know his agent got a job writing for RealGM.

First round is tonight at 8PM on ABC. Nobody cares when the second round is.

He's been asked to do everything on offense and he's young, but he's far from a 1 way player. He's actually shown some very good defensive potential and switchability due to his size and length. Consistency will be the key, as will good coaching and a real roster. Turnovers were an issue early in the season. Not so much later in the season. He wound up averaging 3.4 even after a rough start, which is a touch higher than you want in the long run but not crazy for a second year guy with that kind of usage. For reference, Luka averages 4 for his career.

Have you taken a look at the 2020 draft recently? Tork has been bad so far, but every team in baseball takes him with the number 1 pick that year. That was the COVID draft, teams were basically flying blind because there was little to no scouting going on. They were going off old data from the previous season, and Tork was looking like a sure thing based on what he did in 2019. With hindsight being 20/20 who do you take with the number 1 pick that draft? Garrett Crochet, I guess? There’s no way anyone would have taken him with the number 1 pick that year. No way. I think Avila stunk, but using Tork’s career bWAR as evidence is kind of silly IMHO. There’s plenty of other ammo for that particular argument. The 2020 draft is so weird to me, the reds took a kid with the 12th pick that had tons of power and now in 2024 he’s stuck in AA with a .600 OPS. At least Tork will have a major league career, ha. with all that said, I’m hoping the Reds are the team the Tigers trade Tork to. I could see him hitting 40 bombs in GABP.

Depends on how much influence Troy Weaver has with his new Wizards job.

if he is in protocol, nothing official; now been 5 days

Translation: The Supreme Court is open for business!

Benetti should try watching the game. He just called a catch by Riley in CF as Vierling. Your license to gab in the box only goes as far as your professionalism not to screw up.

Nice thoughts Betrayer and a whole lot of sin-eating haha but I like the idea. I'll keep mine fairly simple. I'm trading down in this draft with hopeful future draft assets included assuming that Clingan is the guy teams are coveting. I wouldn't trade Ivey or Duren yet, I'd like to see them under a new (hopefully competent) coach before shipping them out plus I'm not sure how much value either one has currently. Don't trade Cade under any circumstance. It's stupid to even suggest. Add two way vets, no more of the Bogeys and Burks of the world who have no idea about the defensive end. I'd also target players that might be due for a breakout or on an upward trend, Naji Marshall although he's not that young anymore. Tyus Jones although not that young either. More guys like Fontecchio who aren't that expensive to acquire but have potential to flourish with more opportunity, Grimes was also a good gamble.

Where's Bert's six runs?

randy smith was terrible. al avila was also terrible. differenr situations. smith took over an aging mlb team but had some younger players in the system who turned out ok. higginson, clark, weaver, justin thompson, rob fick! i dont think smith gets credit for any of them except maybe weaver (who was really just "ok") and fick (also just "ok"). he should rightly be criticized for the juan gone deal. smith's team's came within a whisker of 500 a couple times. better than "avila constructed" teama have ever done. avila's only good season was a team he inherited from DD and the proceeded to add jordan zimmerman to. i come not to praise randy smith but to bury him. but i'm burying him right next to the guy who traded away hall of famers for peanuts, signed jordan zimmerman to put the tigers over the top, and inked javy baez to a long term deal. winning % smith: 422 avila: 415 (not counting the covid season, which helps avila). theyre both terrible.

One point about Fontecchio. He came into the league as a free agent. That means we do not have his full Bird rights, we have his Early Bird rights. That means we are limited on how far over the cap we can go with him. We can offer him 175% of last years salary or the average NBA salary, whichever is greater. He made just over $3M last year and the avg salary is $9.6M so he will be offered that. So anything over $9.6 will have to be cap space. So whatever he signs for minus $9.6M and whatever is left will have to be raw cap space.

You can trade Skubal but it has to be for established young MLB players. There is *no* prospect plate that returns equal value for a likely Cy Young winner. None. I would also argue the idea that a pitcher is less valuable because his doesn't play everyday. A good starting pitcher affects the games he is in with a very high total percentage impact on the outcome.. He has far more than 5x effect the effect of a hitter has in the games he appears, so he affects win totals just as much or more.

Skubal gives me the JV and Max hard ass vibes.... they can't trade this guy.

Depressing story in the NYT about Miriam Adelson prepping to drop $100M for Trump. Can't they just make her register as an Israeli agent? Another brick in the wall to build the oligarchy brought to you by Citizens United.

Walman for whatever reason was perceived as damaged goods by the Wings and maybe around the league. On ice or off ice issues, who knows. But clearly not good news because he is another player like Vrana and Ned in net who came here, looked like a neat pick up for awhile, then washed out. We need some of these to hit and stick.

i hope the wizards pick him up. run it back with bagley and wiseman.

I know one thing. You better win at least one title if you give up that much for a guy.

baez doesnt play good defense anymore. the tigers will hope his injury is permanent so they can collect insurance on his contract rather than having to eat it all to get rid of him.

Bert, tell us again what it was like seeing Cobb play?

Might as well win the series now.

Nice pickup by Team Biden

Tork bomb part deux is a grand slam. Meadows with three hits. Ibanez just admitted his diving catch hit the ground but it's an out in the history books.

Meanwhile down South, Tork with a slammer for his 2nd HR of the night

Tigers hitters did a nice job of putting the ball in play and good things happened. I wish they could do that more often.

There needs to be a plethora of people from his administration who have the intestinal fortitude to step up, and give the straight from the hip truth about who this man was, and why he should never be given the chance to sit behind that desk again. Country before politics. They can’t sit silently on the side for this one. And if they do, they are complicit.

Like I said.

NBC wrote an article a while ago about people reevaluating Florida or choosing to leave, discussing a number of factors including skyrocketing cost of living, property insurance rates and (of course) political climate.... Nate Silver, of course, had to respond and basically trashed the article because the data suggests that Florida remains popular. Silver isn't wrong, but data is a lagging indicator.... I don't expect the overall trend of "north to south" to change, certainly with boomers being a large demo relative to their younger peers and with boomers all hitting retirement age, that in and of itself will keep population growth health in the south. But if this was starting to happen, you wouldn't see it immediately - it would show up gradually over time in the data. I don't know if rates of growth will decline going forward or not (I doubt it myself), but sometimes data analyst types can miss the forest through the trees if they just ignore anything qualitative that doesn't reflect in last year's population estimates. Having said all of that, I think there *is* a story about people choosing to move back up north or second guessing moves to the south as well. And it's not necessarily all political - some of it is simply not wanting to move away from family or being miserable all the time during the summer. The hidden costs of being down south as well - anecdotal of course, but we have now have a state income tax and somewhat higher property taxes compared to living in Texas (not to mention gas prices), but it costs less for property insurance and home heating / electric and utilities overall where we live now. Government services are better, schools are better, etc. There are tradeoffs to the lifestyle down there that tend to get lost in these discussions that focus exclusively on taxes, and that shouldn't be brushed aside IMO. And for demographic data to reflect a change in attitudes, it's not going to happen overnight.... people have been talking about Detroit's upswing for a while now, yet it took until last year (per the latest estimates) to reverse a 40+ year streak of population declines. This stuff just takes time to manifest.

It doesn’t matter how blue an area is as long as they are still subject to cristofascist laws passed by their blood-red state legislatures about choice, gender identity, religion in the public square, voting rights, and the like.

All an owner can do is hire people and let them do their job and spend when called upon and get rid of those executives when they show to not be doing their job. Has Chris not shown that ability? Yeah, he didnt "go after" Ohtani. Get real. On one hand people are complaining about Baez and his contract and on the other people are complaining about the owner being cheap. The team has made significant behind the scenes improvements and hired expensive people in the front office, the kind of hires that most fans would never know happened, and I throw in Jason Benetti in that conversation. If Chris just wanted to bank the cash from owning an ML team he wouldn't have approved those hires. Take a look at the media guide and you can see who they are.

And for all of the Chris Illitch bashing, I don’t question his heart or willingness to spend. For me, it’s more about his sports business acumen and ability to hire and move on from executives when necessary.

Who said the rebuild was finished? Why should the new front office have to rush their results to the detriment of the overall plan because the previous front office failed so badly in their build?

I see nothing wrong with any of Greenberg's quotes. In fact, I grant a 100% endorsement.