Motor City Sonics Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 Maybe he ain't all that as a manger. I mean, the Astros flat-out ignoref him when he told them to stop cheating (but did he?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 If idiot Avila decided to not bring Chafin back or re-engage Fulmer, and instead try to build back a guy who had not pitched in 3 years, people would call him an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 7 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: Maybe he ain't all that as a manger. I mean, the Astros flat-out ignoref him when he told them to stop cheating (but did he?). Right, there is no evidence, and never was, to suggest that he is anything other than replacement level. Or that any other manager is. I saw a John Gibbons interview tonight, he was asked what the most important key to success for a manager is, and he didn't hesitate: "Good players". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 (edited) I dont think it's hard to understand why this team is struggling, it is talent level. And I like AJ, I don't think to the extent that he has made mistakes that they are anywhere near the biggest problems facing this teamm Having said that, especially given how implied it was this offseason that Hinch/Harris were a partnership and that Harris was a better fit for Hinch than Avila, I am not clear as to why Hinch seeming eludes blame from some or is cast as a bystander who had no say in what he was given talent wise... all of that implies that he's a lot less hands on as a manager or member of the org than he actually is, given that he's likely one of the more involved managers from a transaction/FO perspective in the league from all accounts I have seen. That's the part I dont like... I dont think AJ had any illusions about the team he was coming into the season with and I just haven't seen a lot of evidence that he isn't on the same page with the new FO. Edited April 13, 2023 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdog Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 (edited) Petulant is the word I would use to describe his attitude. Edited April 13, 2023 by kdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 22 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: Right, there is no evidence, and never was, to suggest that he is anything other than replacement level. Or that any other manager is. I saw a John Gibbons interview tonight, he was asked what the most important key to success for a manager is, and he didn't hesitate: "Good players". There are some managers that make a big difference, but usually in the short term. Billy Martin could always get a team to play better - for awhile, until he just burned everyone out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 10 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: There are some managers that make a big difference, but usually in the short term. Billy Martin could always get a team to play better - for awhile, until he just burned everyone out. Yes I think Billy Martin could make a difference with good players who were underachieving, in the short term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 49 minutes ago, kdog said: Give Kane some credit for not softballing about Lange - and then laugh at McCoskey for going right to the softball Q to 'rescue' Hinch after Kane was done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Give Kane some credit for not softballing about Lange - and then laugh at McCoskey for going right to the softball Q to 'rescue' Hinch after Kane was done. Press Release: Johnny Kane will no longer work during Tiger games for Bally Sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 42 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: Right, there is no evidence, and never was, to suggest that he is anything other than replacement level. Or that any other manager is. I saw a John Gibbons interview tonight, he was asked what the most important key to success for a manager is, and he didn't hesitate: "Good players". The thing with Hinch that maybe disappoints is that he is really very old school/conservative about the way he wants games to go. if you gave Maddon a bad team don't you think he'd at least be trying all kinds of variations in how he used pitchers/lineups etc., looking for something unconventional that might give his bad team an edge? But Hinch is about as boring a manager as there is. There is nothing wrong with that per se, and unconventional probably loses anyway, but conventional does nothing to make an uninteresting team more interesting than it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 Just now, gehringer_2 said: The thing with Hinch that maybe disappoints is that he is really very old school/conservative about the way he wants games to go. if you gave Maddon a bad team don't you think he'd at least be trying all kinds of variations in how he used pitchers/lineups etc., looking for something unconventional that might give his bad team an edge? But Hinch is about as boring a manager as there is. There is nothing wrong with that per se, and unconventional probably loses anyway, but conventional does nothing to make an uninteresting team more interesting than it is. Yes that's my beef with tonight, he could have seized the win in the ninth with Lange, and bad teams desperately need wins. Any fool can fill out a lineup card for the 2017 Astros. But a manager of a bad team needs to throw the book away and do something creative to grab a win when it is staring you in the face, when it so rarely does so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 (edited) 38 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Give Kane some credit for not softballing about Lange - and then laugh at McCoskey for going right to the softball Q to 'rescue' Hinch after Kane was done. Kane's question about Lange was great - he basically got him to admit that rolling him out for a 2nd inning was an option that they didn't avail themselves of. Again, generally speaking, we can walk and chew gum at the same time... we can admit that the talent in the bullpen isn't good enough (and yes, put that primarily on Harris) while admitting the manager could have made different decisions in this game that could have affected a different outcome. Edited April 13, 2023 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 Something else that we were pleased with last year was what a miracle worker Chris Fetter was. He was mentioned regularly in game threads. This year, not so often. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 The Tigers are currently on pace to finish 36-126. This would put them 126 games behind Tampa, who is on pace to go 162-0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 aj hinch has a better managerial record than jim leyland. as soon as leyland had a team with a bunch of bad players on it, he quit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 I wonder how much if any the new shift rules are effecting Tigers pitching? Cause even when things were going good pitching wise the peripherals still weren't very good for most of the guys suggesting that they were getting lucky or at the very least playong in front of a defense that was positioned perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted April 13, 2023 Author Share Posted April 13, 2023 13 hours ago, Tiger337 said: Oh no! The Tigers have only 12 pitchers. How will they suirvive? Spoiler alert. They won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted April 13, 2023 Author Share Posted April 13, 2023 9 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: the old guy has 2 100mph exit velos tonight. Wiley veteran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted April 13, 2023 Author Share Posted April 13, 2023 9 hours ago, kdog said: Harris chose this bullpen approach with his lack of spending. This is all on him. Disagree specifically with this game. I think Hinch has to have a pulse and go with Foley & Lang for more than a dozen pitches each to finish out the game. Not sure anyone else in the bullpen can be trusted at this point. Maybe Shreve. But, this team is in a 2-10 funk. Maybe you have to get out of the inning/reliever box in order to take a game. If it means neither are available for tomorrow, so what. Win this game tonight. Tomorrow might not call for closers anyway. But you're right on the larger point. They gambled that this group could be salvaged by Fetter and it just isn't working right now. I'm happy with the Jimenez & Soto trades, I think those were beneficial going forward. But as was mentioned elsewhere, there should have been some other moves made to backfill those roles (and Chafin's) from last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted April 13, 2023 Author Share Posted April 13, 2023 9 hours ago, Jim Cowan said: Last year we were very pleased with the good bullpen management. Last year the arm barn had chicken breast and Miracle Whip and celery. This year its chicken crap and Elmer's glue and packing peanuts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted April 13, 2023 Author Share Posted April 13, 2023 9 hours ago, Tiger337 said: Because Hinch is a genius. Why did he stop running the organization after 2021? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted April 13, 2023 Author Share Posted April 13, 2023 9 hours ago, KL2 said: What is this 1973? Maybe that's I am drooling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted April 13, 2023 Author Share Posted April 13, 2023 9 hours ago, kdog said: Harris has failed his first team building test with this bullpen. It's just awful. True so far. 9 hours ago, Jim Cowan said: I'm not letting Hinch off the hook. That was an easily winnable game. True specific to the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 (edited) 52 minutes ago, casimir said: True specific to the game. With AJ, we all have heard his comments about "winning today's game" so many times. And I've seen him leverage guys in the past who were operating off of much less rest or, despite the quality of the pen, dealing with pens that were far more taxed coming into last night's game, in order to put the team in the best position to "win today's game." I think he fell short last night and has to take some of the blame. No, that doesn't mean I think he should be fired, nor does it mean that the talent he has been given is good, but like with anyone else, it should be acceptable to make criticisms when he makes mistakes. And generally, it just seems like he's "off-limits" for any sort of criticism in some corners. Edited April 13, 2023 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, mtutiger said: it just seems like he's "off-limits" for any sort of criticism in some corners. LOL - . The Tigers MLB page headline for last night was 'Bullpen Growing Pains' Cisnero is 34, Shreve is 33, Wingentner is 29. Youthful inexperience last night was not. Edited April 13, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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