04/12/2023 7:07pm EDT Detroit Tigers vs Toronto Blue Jays

[Jim Cowan]

Managerial wins?  That's a bit like "pitching wins" isn't it?  Or RBI?

[Jim Cowan]

Hinch isn't going to get fired.  What would be the point?  He won't quit either, this might already be his last big league job.

[Tenacious D]

Hinch probably deserves credit for holding the team together through a lot of losing during his tenure.  Seems like the players are generally positive and upbeat in spite of their performance.

I generally don’t believe in curses, but nothing makes sense.  The players are better than what we are seeing.  It’s 2022 redux, so far.  Inexplicable production from players with track record or pedigree.

 

[Tiger337]

1 minute ago, Tenacious D said:

Hinch probably deserves credit for holding the team together through a lot of losing during his tenure.  Seems like the players are generally positive and upbeat in spite of their performance.

I generally don’t believe in curses, but nothing makes sense.  The players are better than what we are seeing.  It’s 2022 redux, so far.  Inexplicable production from players with track record or pedigree.

 

Their players have very little track record and could very well be as bad as they are playing.  It's fair to not judge them too much until their schedule eases up though.  

[chasfh]

8 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

Hinch isn't going to get fired.  What would be the point?  He won't quit either, this might already be his last big league job.

If Hinch just up and quit, it definitely would be.

[Tiger337]

15 minutes ago, buddha said:

leyland won a world series with a team of free agent mercenaries in florida.  he never won another.  hinch had three teams win more than 100 games in a season.  jim leyland never won 100 games.  if anything, leyland's teams in detroit continually underachieved.

and like i said, when leyland was managing teams with poor talent, he lost a ton of games and then quit on colorado and florida.

Leyland's players did well.  The problem was the bullpen.  I suppose you could argue that he was part of the bullpen problem.  

[SoCalTiger]

I’m just happy Wintenger didn’t pass out on the mound. Putting him in the ninth to face the 3-4-5 guys in the lineup on the road in the midst of a long losing streak is malpractice on Hinch’s part in my opinion. What a confidence killer. 

[casimir]

3 hours ago, chasfh said:

That's a fair point about who was due up. Maybe Foley pitches until a guy gets on base, and if so, bring in Lange to try to shut the barn door?

Sure, that's another option.  There was a 2 run cushion.  Keep Foley in and maybe even roll the dice on him until the winning run comes to the plate because he is a ground ball pitcher.  Or maybe the line is even more situational, if Kiermaier gets on board make the change or maybe if he gets Kiermaier and Springer out, maybe you grant him a baserunner before making a change.  Or maybe you draw the line at Bichette being the final batter for Foley one way or the other.  Something along those lines.

[buddha]

59 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Leyland's players did well.  The problem was the bullpen.  I suppose you could argue that he was part of the bullpen problem.  

leyland's talented players did well.  so did hinch's.

[chasfh]

9 minutes ago, casimir said:

Sure, that's another option.  There was a 2 run cushion.  Keep Foley in and maybe even roll the dice on him until the winning run comes to the plate because he is a ground ball pitcher.  Or maybe the line is even more situational, if Kiermaier gets on board make the change or maybe if he gets Kiermaier and Springer out, maybe you grant him a baserunner before making a change.  Or maybe you draw the line at Bichette being the final batter for Foley one way or the other.  Something along those lines.

Right. The idea is, put Foley in until he gets in trouble. If he never does, he finishes the inning and Lange starts the ninth. If he gives up a runner, or two as you suggest, then Lange comes in. Regardless of what the line of trouble is, point is, if Foley can handle the job, we don't burn the Lange option completely before the ninth, when he is most needed.

Edited April 13, 2023 by chasfh

[Tiger337]

1 minute ago, buddha said:

leyland's talented players did well.  so did hinch's.

And most other managers.  

[buddha]

the idea that all hinch had to do was leave lange in the game and we win is silly.  we dont know what would have happened if he left lange in.  and if he did and lange got bombed it would be "why did he leave lange in for 2 innings when he normally works only one?  hinch is teh stupidest."

what we DO know is that what hinch did do didnt work.  and because he's the boss, he deserves his share of the blame for that.

[Hongbit]

That was the perfect scenario to bring in your closer.   Oh yeah, we don’t have a closer.  We have a rotation of whatever guy is pitching the best at the moment and then AJ brings him in at what he feels is the most high leverage situation in the game and not necessarily for the last 3 outs.  A completely odd idea that is loved by exactly 2 people.  AJ Hinch and Happy Happy Craig Monroe.   

Edited April 13, 2023 by Hongbit

[gehringer_2]

24 minutes ago, buddha said:

leyland's talented players did well.  so did hinch's.

I give Leyand credit for getting outside the conventional BP thinking box with his use of Zumaya in 2006, that was the only time I remember JL ever getting much outside conventional use patterns. But in truth, DD gave him pretty much consistent garbage to work with so I won't hold Leyland to the performance of his BPs.

[bobrob2004]

I think it's time for this discussion again: What makes A.J. Hinch so special?  He wins when he has great players in Houston, but loses when he has terrible players in Detroit, just like every other manager.  When he loses, he can't be blamed because...just look at the players he has to work with.  Brad Ausmus won the division in 2014, just like many other managers would have, given the players.  A more experienced manager would have gone further, so it's great to have a good manager in the playoffs.  But the Tigers are not expected to go to the playoffs any time in the near future, so why have Hinch on the Tigers?  What exactly does he bring to the table that any other mediocre manager would not be able to bring?  Why is he cherished so much that the thought of Harris bringing in someone else is so beyond absurd that we cannot even discuss it?  

[Dan Gilmore]

Are you suggesting replacing Hinch with “another mediocre manager”? At this point finding anyone competent who wants to manage the team would be challenging and likely produce similar results or worse.

[kdog]

There are a lot of morons who have won world series as managers. They just had great teams. Talent and depth on the roster is 90% of the reason teams win and lose.

[Tigermojo]

Let's just have Paws manage so we can prove how much impact they have on the record. Who manages is the absolute least of this team's problems.

[bobrob2004]

5 minutes ago, Dan Gilmore said:

Are you suggesting replacing Hinch with “another mediocre manager”? At this point finding anyone competent who wants to manage the team would be challenging and likely produce similar results or worse.

So we keep Hinch because that's who we are stuck with?  Leftovers from the previous regime?  Why not let Harris have a say in who he wants to manage the team?  He's taking over the rebuild, why not clean the whole slate and start over from scratch?

No, I'm not suggesting we fire Hinch right this minute.  Let him ride out the year and see who is available in the off-season.  Is there really no one else that will be able to take the Tigers to the playoffs, assuming they are able to get the right players?  

Sparky Anderson was before my time, so I do not know what the overall consensus was when he was hired.  He was hired in the middle of the season, when the Tigers actually had a winning season, and they decided to fire Les Moss and replace him with Sparky Anderson.  Of course Sparky had great success with the Reds, so maybe this was a fluke thing and there really are no managers now that are available or will become available that could justify replacing Hinch.  

[chasfh]

44 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

I think it's time for this discussion again: What makes A.J. Hinch so special?  He wins when he has great players in Houston, but loses when he has terrible players in Detroit, just like every other manager.  When he loses, he can't be blamed because...just look at the players he has to work with.  Brad Ausmus won the division in 2014, just like many other managers would have, given the players.  A more experienced manager would have gone further, so it's great to have a good manager in the playoffs.  But the Tigers are not expected to go to the playoffs any time in the near future, so why have Hinch on the Tigers?  What exactly does he bring to the table that any other mediocre manager would not be able to bring?  Why is he cherished so much that the thought of Harris bringing in someone else is so beyond absurd that we cannot even discuss it?  

A.J. Hinch gets fired today. Who do you want to replace him?

[Hongbit]

17 minutes ago, chasfh said:

A.J. Hinch gets fired today. Who do you want to replace him?

That’s easy.   Craig Monroe because it’s the only way to get him off the broadcasts.  

[chasfh]

2 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

That’s easy.   Craig Monroe because it’s the only way to get him off the broadcasts.  

Do you agree with that, bobrob? 😁

[bobrob2004]

14 minutes ago, chasfh said:

A.J. Hinch gets fired today. Who do you want to replace him?

Aside from the fact that I said I'd wait until the off-season, the most likely candidate right now would be the bench coach.  In the Tigers case that's George Lombard.  

Of course they could also grab a manager that was fired last year and couldn't find a job in the off-season, such as Joe Girardi or Joe Maddon.  

[chasfh]

4 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

Aside from the fact that I said I'd wait until the off-season, the most likely candidate right now would be the bench coach.  In the Tigers case that's George Lombard.  

Of course they could also grab a manager that was fired last year and couldn't find a job in the off-season, such as Joe Girardi or Joe Maddon.  

I like George Lombard and I can see him becoming manager of the team when A.J. gets moved to GM. But remember also that George was brought here by A.J. and he’s cut from the same cloth as A.J., so if you show A.J. the gate, expect a lot of the very same thing you’re hating right now.

[bobrob2004]

5 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I like George Lombard and I can see him becoming manager of the team when A.J. gets moved to GM. But remember also that George was brought here by A.J. and he’s cut from the same cloth as A.J., so if you show A.J. the gate, expect a lot of the very same thing you’re hating right now.

Which is why there's no reason to act now.  Someone will get fired midseason (someone always does) and maybe that person will have the qualities to justify replacing Hinch.  In the meantime, just wait until the off-season and go through the interview process like normal.  This time with Harris' input.