2023 NFL Draft As-It-Happens

[Jason_R]

5 hours ago, buddha said:

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/devin-willock-sr-files-40m-lawsuit-against-university-ex-georgia-teammate-jalen-carter-named-defendant.amp

now you'll get to find out what happened.

It's already looking worse.

"The car [driven by LeCroy] had been leased by the athletic department." Lack of institutional control?

"Sarchione Auto Group, which signed Carter to an NIL deal and provided him with a 2021 Jeep Cherokee Trackhawk, was also named in the complaint." What could go wrong with NIL?

[gehringer_2]

35 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

What won't go wrong with NIL?

FIFY.

[sagnam]

This stuff never happened before NIL.

[gehringer_2]

7 minutes ago, sagnam said:

This stuff never happened before NIL.

LOL. Of course not!

But the difference is going to be the way the liability shifts. When it was illegal boosters operating outside the rules, the Universities themselves could always deny liability. In fact the major sanction levied by the NCAA was always about 'loss of institutional control' which only reinforced the fiction of the firewall between the University and legal liability for whatever went on with 'unsurpervised' athletes. But now with the Schools hip deep in organizing and coordinating NIL themselves,  I think they are going to find deniability harder to preserve, and they are not going to like it.

Edited May 13, 2023 by gehringer_2

[MichiganCardinal]

Institutions don’t need to be in control when they’re winning nattys.

[buddha]

how can there be a lack of institutional control when there is nil?  they are paying the players and its legal.  

what would be the "lack" of control exhibited by leasing some employee a car?

they'll settle the lawsuit before they get too deep into discovery.  

[gehringer_2]

29 minutes ago, buddha said:

how can there be a lack of institutional control when there is nil?  they are paying the players and its legal.  

what would be the "lack" of control exhibited by leasing some employee a car?

they'll settle the lawsuit before they get too deep into discovery.  

funny enough you should mention it, but I can give you an example. I worked for a while for a F100 oil field services Co and we had thousands of people in company leased cars going to customer facilities. Mother Corp ended up going to great lengths to protect themselves from liability from their employees in their cars messing up. For instance we were all sent to a high class professional driving school (which was neat) and we had a 0.000 BAL policy where your ass was flat fired if you were ever stopped at any time and blew anything but a zero-zero in the company car or anyone else's. Plus random drug testing (though that was as much for being around hazardous equip as for driving..) At any rate, the point is out there in the 'real' world with real employers and real money floating around, liability gets a lot more real too. My Corp wasn't doing all that to be a good corporate citizen (they weren't one) they were doing it to try and reduce the number of liability claims they were experiencing and to build their due dilegence defense portfolio.

[Hongbit]

NIL and the transfer portal are the two best things to ever happen to college football.  A true gift from the football gods.  

[Jason_R]

2 hours ago, buddha said:

how can there be a lack of institutional control when there is nil?  they are paying the players and its legal.  

what would be the "lack" of control exhibited by leasing some employee a car?

they'll settle the lawsuit before they get too deep into discovery.  

Oh come on. It was apparently well known to the cops that UGA players and staff were regularly racing. Now we find out that a 24-year old staffer has access, well after the hours when any legitimate business could be conducted, to a car leased by the football program. Might as well give a pyromaniac matches and gasoline. 

[buddha]

11 hours ago, Jason_R said:

Oh come on. It was apparently well known to the cops that UGA players and staff were regularly racing. Now we find out that a 24-year old staffer has access, well after the hours when any legitimate business could be conducted, to a car leased by the football program. Might as well give a pyromaniac matches and gasoline. 

but how is giving someone a leased vehicle a violation?  let alone evidence of not complying with ncaa rules?  you can do almost anything you want now.

failure to prevent them from racing may open up the university to legal liability in civil court, but im not sure its a violation of ncaa rules.

[Hongbit]

21 minutes ago, buddha said:

but how is giving someone a leased vehicle a violation?  let alone evidence of not complying with ncaa rules?  you can do almost anything you want now.

failure to prevent them from racing may open up the university to legal liability in civil court, but im not sure its a violation of ncaa rules.

NCAA violations?  Haha.  Those don’t apply to SEC teams.  

[buddha]

its not like georgia did anything serious like buying a kid a cheeseburger and failing to keep the receipt...

[Jason_R]

I agree the NCAA is going to look the other way as long as it can. But Kirby Smart does not have control of his program. Maybe when one of his kids kills a pedestrian in a UGA vehicle someone will do something. 

[RedRamage]

On 5/14/2023 at 9:58 AM, buddha said:

but how is giving someone a leased vehicle a violation?  let alone evidence of not complying with ncaa rules?  you can do almost anything you want now.

failure to prevent them from racing may open up the university to legal liability in civil court, but im not sure its a violation of ncaa rules.

I'm not a huge follower of college football so I might be completely wrong here, but it seems to me that "lack of institutional control" is intentionally vague so it can be applied to situations where the letter of the law isn't broken but the spirit is. One could argue that if street racing by UGA staff/players was regularly happening and UGA didn't do anything to try to stop it and it was being done in UGA leased vehicles that that could qualify as lack of control.

Obviously there's a lot of "ifs" in there: If it really was happening regularly... If UGA knew about it (or it can be proven they knew about it)... if UGA didn't do anything to try to stop it...

[sagnam]

Brodric Martin expected to be a Day 3 pick, Lions surprised him with Day 2 call

[Jason_R]

Quote

It turns out Detroit had only 14 players with first-round grades in the entire draft class. Gibbs, Campbell and LaPorta were three of them. A fourth was Alabama DB Brian Branch, and the Lions used a fifth-round pick to move up from 48 to 45 to get him.

So, yeah, the Lions don’t really care what people think about their draft. Because as they saw it, they wound up with four of the top 14 players in the whole class.

Lions say they got four of the 14 players they had rated as first round talents.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/05/15/2023-nfl-schedule-release-cowboys-chiefs-jets-foster-moreau

[RandyMarsh]

Ultimately getting the guys you want and target is the most important part of drafting.

If you end up "reaching"(put it in quotes cause it's only a reach based off somebody elses board) then oh well, its better than missing out on the player you want and settling for less just because you were afraid you weren't getting good value there. 

With that said I do question the sincerity of the quote only because with all the extra capital that the Lions had it doesn't strike me as a Holmes move to sit and wait and hope they fall to you if they truly had first round grades and 2 of their top 14 prospects in Branch and Laporta.

Idk I guess there is the possibility that they did try to move back into the 1st for one or both of them but the price was too high in their eyes. 

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by RandyMarsh

[RedRamage]

1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

With that said I do question the sincerity of the quote only because with all the extra capital that the Lions had it doesn't strike me as a Holmes move to sit and wait and hope they fall to you if they truly had first round grades and 2 of their top 14 prospects in Branch and Laporta.

I dunno... I mean obviously we'll never know for sure, but I could see Holmes looking at it and saying "Bijan and Gibbs are both on board, the likelihood that both would be drafted before we pick is very low, it's worth the risk to pick up that extra early second."

This is going to be a very interesting draft to follow down the years and may end up being a defining moment in the Holmes/Campbell tenure. If these guys are (mostly) successful it'll be proof that Holmes knows what he's doing and conventional wisdom be damned. But if these aren't (mostly) successful this will be an easy year to point at and say: "Holmes thought he was smarter than everyone else in the NFL and he clearly wasn't."

Someone remind me in 2026 to come back to this thread and rate the players.

[buddha]

every team talks about how they got the players they wanted.  nothing to see here.

come back in five years and we'll know if they were right.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

22 hours ago, sagnam said:

Brodric Martin expected to be a Day 3 pick, Lions surprised him with Day 2 call

I don't know enough to make an informed decision here and roast Brad Holmes on this one. I do question why he traded so many assets just for Martin, a seemingly unathletic, slow, sub-2 RAS guy. But I have enough trust in Holmes to not go off about this decision. I would have loved to get someone else like a Siaki Ika, but Holmes and his front office staff know a heck of a lot more than I do.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

3 hours ago, buddha said:

every team talks about how they got the players they wanted.  nothing to see here.

come back in five years and we'll know if they were right.

Did someone say we like our team?

[Motown Bombers]

5 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I don't know enough to make an informed decision here and roast Brad Holmes on this one. I do question why he traded so many assets just for Martin, a seemingly unathletic, slow, sub-2 RAS guy. But I have enough trust in Holmes to not go off about this decision. I would have loved to get someone else like a Siaki Ika, but Holmes and his front office staff know a heck of a lot more than I do.

You can't really use RAS when talking about space eating nose tackles. He's a run stuffer. The Lions had a weakness in run defense. His job is to consumer blockers like Snacks. It will help free up the linebackers like Campbell. They traded away some late round picks that they needed to get rid off anyways. I kind of like the move. 

[RandyMarsh]

On the surface the Martin pick looks like a reach but its lazy to just look at where a guy is ranked and then presume he should be picked at that spot.

Yes overall Martin may have been ranked where he was but the Lions didn't go after him for his overall grade they went after him for a specific skill set that he brings to the table and excels at so in that regard his overall grade is almost irrelevant to them. If you're the Lions you don't want to take the chance that another team has that same thought process which is why they may have taken him a bit early but again better to take a guy too early than not get him at all. 

Edited May 16, 2023 by RandyMarsh

[Jason_R]

Yes, every team says they got the players they wanted, but not every war room erupts in unison like they have in the Brad Holmes era. 

Of course we won’t be able to rate this draft for a while. The draft value folks may turn out to be right. Or it may turn out that “their guys” became “their guys” based on group think. But I haven’t seen any evidence that the staff is anything but elated with the players they got. 

[sagnam]

I think it’s interesting because usually a player has a rough idea of when he’ll be drafted, and when they are wrong it’s because the agent was overselling.  He was surprised.  Not saying it’s a reach, just saying that’s not something that commonly happens.