1984Echoes Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 44 minutes ago, slothfacekilla said: It sounds like Kostin is about to sign a two year deal. I've seen that Lindstrom is already looking for work in Europe. As problematic as Lindstrom is... That doesn't help us on Right-Side D... At least not... today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothfacekilla Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 5 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: They don't save $3 mill in cap because they still have to pay him. Maybe not $3 mill but... I don't think they're saving much by buying him out... And he gets to see if he can sign on with another team so... actually some class by the Wings to let him go shopping for another job early... Huh? He's young so he costs less than $500k against their cap this season and then a little over $500k next season? https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/redwings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, slothfacekilla said: Huh? He's young so he costs less than $500k against their cap this season and then a little over $500k next season? https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/redwings They bought him out for $966K out of the $3 mill contract. Split between two years = cap hit $433K this year and $533K next year. So I guess they do save a chunk this year... But I still say they don't want him on the roster and no one was offering anything for him in trade... So about the roster spot, but also a nice chunk on the cap. I don't know how they're planning out their roster spots but... it seems the Oilers could have done that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothfacekilla Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 Yes I rounded up from $2,666,666 to $3 million for my comment for only this season's savings on the hit, I didn't think it would be a sticking point for people! My idea was that saving that much this season (and having a small cap hit next season I guess) seems odd when they're still rebuilding, but if Yzerman wants to save that money or even just a roster spot for someone else I'm not going to be upset. Just surprised. Young, cost controlled player that has some success. But he has trended down since his rookie season so it isn't anything I'm going to rant against. He also is small with injury history. The Wings do seem like they're going to look to fill one or two forward roster spots after signing Kostin and Veleno but I guess they didn't think Yamamoto was a worthwhile placeholder for one season. I'll be very interested to see what they do with the money and roster spot now since I imagine they have something in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gilmore Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 Saving up for Debrincat, duh! jk, I think they just wanted Kostin, didn’t value Yamamoto enough to keep and whether that budget goes to Kostin, Debrincat or someone else is all part of the Yzerplan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 I like Kostin. Young player that scored some big goals during the playoffs and did it without the luxury of playing many shifts with McJesus. Honestly a great pickup for nothing from Stevie. I don’t see much from Yamamoto. Great skater but can’t do anything else and won’t have 97 and 29 around him anymore. His best move may be to retire and take up short track speed skating. He’d be a potential Olympic medalist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kacie Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 Meh, I'm growing a little tired and frustrated with let's trust Yzerman's mad genius approach. Am I expecting multiple Stanley Cups the next few years? No. But to not even sniff the playoffs after 5 years? Come on, Seattle made the playoffs in their second year of existence, we know what Vegas did. If Ken Holland or literally anyone else was doing a similar thing, fans would want his head on a platter. Similar to the Tigers, they're losing an entire generation of fans who couldn't give a crap about hockey anymore. Jimmy D got the Wings from Dead Wings to WCF in less than 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Kacie said: Meh, I'm growing a little tired and frustrated with let's trust Yzerman's mad genius approach. Am I expecting multiple Stanley Cups the next few years? No. But to not even sniff the playoffs after 5 years? Come on, Seattle made the playoffs in their second year of existence, we know what Vegas did. If Ken Holland or literally anyone else was doing a similar thing, fans would want his head on a platter. Similar to the Tigers, they're losing an entire generation of fans who couldn't give a crap about hockey anymore. Jimmy D got the Wings from Dead Wings to WCF in less than 5 years. Yzerman started behind the 8 ball though compared to Vegas and Seattle. George McPhee in Vegas and Ronnie Francis in Seattle started with clean slates and all the cap space in the world. Yzerman had to clear millions in cap space from Kenny's mess and unload several bad players/contracts off the roster. When you combine that with absolutely zero lottery luck to land a superstar player on offense, that really set us back compared to those teams. One can also point out that we got almost nothing of value from the last 2-3 drafts of Ken Holland and company. To be sure, Yzerman is not and should not be free from criticism. He's made some moves I disagree with like signing Ben Chiarot and pairing him with Mo Seider, not going after Alex Debrincat (or so it seems for now), and drafting so heavily on defense when we are bottom 10 in most offensive/scoring metrics. But it must still be acknowledged, in line with any criticism, just how far behind Yzerman was and just how big a hole this franchise was in thanks to the last few years of Ken Holland. Edited June 30, 2023 by Mr.TaterSalad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothfacekilla Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 22 minutes ago, Kacie said: Jimmy D got the Wings from Dead Wings to WCF in less than 5 years. It was a lot easier when there was no salary cap and other team's scouting deficiencies let you get guys like Lidstrom and Fedorov in the third and fourth rounds in the same draft. Then you have the contracts and everything Yzerman started with: Top 10 prospects from Bultmans end of 2018 ranking. Libor Sulak Joe Hicketts Vili Saarijarvi Gustav Lindstrom Evengy Svechnikov Jared McIssac Berggren Hronek Veleno Zadina More bad contracts than good, really no great prospects to speak of. I'm not sure that Seattle and Vegas are comparable since their gm's were able to completely decide what they wanted their team to be with very favorable protection rules, whereas Yzerman got what he was given. Seattle was even given the second overall pick to get Berniers as a cornerstone of their franchise, what has Yzerman had to work with? I myself am getting impatient but outside of some other GM being a miracle worker and getting really really lucky with trades and prospects I am not shocked that it is taking this long. I do scratch my head at some Yzerman moves but I am more than fine giving him more time to cook here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordstanley Posted June 30, 2023 Author Share Posted June 30, 2023 38 minutes ago, Kacie said: Meh, I'm growing a little tired and frustrated with let's trust Yzerman's mad genius approach. Am I expecting multiple Stanley Cups the next few years? No. But to not even sniff the playoffs after 5 years? Come on, Seattle made the playoffs in their second year of existence, we know what Vegas did. If Ken Holland or literally anyone else was doing a similar thing, fans would want his head on a platter. Similar to the Tigers, they're losing an entire generation of fans who couldn't give a crap about hockey anymore. Jimmy D got the Wings from Dead Wings to WCF in less than 5 years. Fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 5 minutes ago, lordstanley said: Fair. how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothfacekilla Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 I want to stress I do not blame anyone who is feeling impatient, we are fans and thrive on our team's success! I reaaaallllllllllllly hope we are a season or two away from real playoff contention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 friedman: "debrincat to detroit doesnt seem to be a match." poor tater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 25 minutes ago, slothfacekilla said: I do scratch my head at some Yzerman moves but I am more than fine giving him more time to cook here. The two for me have been the Vrana saga and the Hronek trade. Yzerman can easily win the latter if Pellikka turns into a better player than Hronek. Other than those I don't have anything to complain about. Well, I might have been tempted to trade Bertuzzi before last season, but for all I know maybe they tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 7 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: The two for me have been the Vrana saga and the Hronek trade. Yzerman can easily win the latter if Pellikka turns into a better player than Hronek. Other than those I don't have anything to complain about. Well, I might have been tempted to trade Bertuzzi before last season, but for all I know maybe they tried. the vrana saga is puzzling. trading hronek for two top picks at the peak of his value was a good deal, imo. my question is why spend so much last year rather than ride it out again, get a better pick, and continue to build up the system? with THAT said, as ive said before, if bert were healthy and vrana sober, this team might have snuck up on the 8th seed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, buddha said: trading hronek for two top picks at the peak of his value was a good deal, imo. Correct - depends on whether 2023/4 Hronek is going to be 2022/3 Hronek or 2021/22 Hronek. Edited June 30, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothfacekilla Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 22 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: The two for me have been the Vrana saga and the Hronek trade. Yzerman can easily win the latter if Pellikka turns into a better player than Hronek. Other than those I don't have anything to complain about. Well, I might have been tempted to trade Bertuzzi before last season, but for all I know maybe they tried. I mean I can see what the Wings were doing with Vrana, they traded Mantha and got Vrana and both first and second round picks. Vrana was younger and had a better goalscoring touch. The Capitals pretty much sat Mantha at the end of his deal so it isn't like we missed out on his production / lack of hustle (Mantha in 118 games with Washington: 58 points, Vrana in 42 games in Detroit had 32 points). The fact they got the first and second round picks still makes it a win to me even with Vrana's personal issues killing his place on the team. I am more than fine with the Wings trying these sort of things just sometimes they don't work out! I guess if you think they should have dug deeper into his personal issues before the trade + contract then I wouldn't argue against that maybe it was something they could have figured out. Man Vrana working out would have been such a boost to the rebuild, they need a pure goal scorer like that so badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 31 minutes ago, buddha said: friedman: "debrincat to detroit doesnt seem to be a match." poor tater. I hope Yzerman has a plan to make up for our scoring deficit long term whether this offseason or next. We were bottom 10 in the league in goal totals, goals per game, shot totals, shots per game, shot attempts % Corsi, assist totals, and assists per game. Under 26 year old players, who have a history of scoring 30+ and 40+ goals in a season, who also want to play for you (allegedly) don't grow on trees. I trust Yzerman, but it really stinks passing on a guy like Debrincat. He fits sooooo much of what we need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothfacekilla Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 I think the Chiarot deal is the biggest headscratcher for me. I sort of see some of the logic, but I really disliked it from the jump. Theoretically he adds toughness and had just gotten flipped for a first round pick + at the trade deadline....but I do not like watching him play defense for my team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 22 minutes ago, buddha said: my question is why spend so much last year rather than ride it out again, get a better pick, and continue to build up the system? Especially when one of those guys is a bum like Ben Chiarot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: I hope Yzerman has a plan to make up for our scoring deficit long term whether this offseason or next. We were bottom 10 in the league in goal totals, goals per game, shot totals, shots per game, shot attempts % Corsi, assist totals, and assists per game. Under 26 year old players, who have a history of scoring 30+ and 40+ goals in a season, who also want to play for you (allegedly) don't grow on trees. I trust Yzerman, but it really stinks passing on a guy like Debrincat. He fits sooooo much of what we need. TBF, we don't know if they had a discussion and didn't reach a deal. From the fact that Dorion is out there complaining that the offers weren't good enough, we can infer that someone has been making the offers he didn't like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) 28 minutes ago, buddha said: my question is why spend so much last year rather than ride it out again, get a better pick, and continue to build up the system? I have a feeling he thought they would be better last year. It's easy to forget now how many things went wrong last season - especially if your frame of reference is the Tigers! 😭 Edited June 30, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagnam Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: TBF, we don't know if they had a discussion and didn't reach a deal. From the fact that Dorion is out there complaining that the offers weren't good enough, we can infer that someone has been making the offers he didn't like. It’s what happens when you overpay for something then a year later can’t get rid of it for nearly what you paid. I had a issue like this with a house recently. Instead of whining publicly, just ride it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothfacekilla Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 I really appreciate how active the red wings forums have been lately, I enjoy talking hockey with you all. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordstanley Posted June 30, 2023 Author Share Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, buddha said: how? With the caveat that I may change my tune 24 hours from now if July 1 takes a surprising turn. Yzerman in his 4 years has taken a steady, conservative approach without a sense of urgency. That isn't inherently good or bad. Canadian teams often prematurely rush the process by signing a big name due to fan or media pressure to do something now, do anything. But goodwill Yzerman has built up from his playing days and Tampa tenure and the fact that enough fans have been sated by 4 Cups in 11 years has caused many to take a puffball approach to his record. There is the hope and expectation that he will replicate what he did in Tampa. That was first real executive job. He might repeat it. But any success depends on luck as well, and no guarantee that lightning will strike twice. Exhibit 1: drafting good fortune the Wings had in the late '80s and early '90s versus lack of lottery luck the past 7 years. Many examples of entrepreneurs making a ton of money and fame launching one business but then not hitting paydirt again the rest of the way. Past is only a partial indicator of future. Yzerman has made a bunch of little moves and on balance more than often not they've been small wins. But when I look objectively at all of his drafts and trades and signings so far, I count one and only one move that lives up to the Yzerman hype so far - drafting Seider when almost everyone saw that as a reach. True that likewise he hasn't made any disastrous signings, trades or picks so far but it has been safety first so far. Maybe that's ok, provided the Wings progress bit by bit. But willingly giving up on Vrana, Bertuzzi and Hronek presents the first real challenge of the Yzerman era. Without replacing them this weekend, the WIngs will likely be a worse team in 2023-24 than they were in 2022-2023. I was hoping for better 4 years in. Not that I blame him, there's still no other GM I'd rather have at this point, but we need to catch a break and it has been awhile since the Red Wings have. Edited June 30, 2023 by lordstanley 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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