General Tiger Discussion

[John_Brian_K]

16 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

Both Fielder and Cabrera were older and about 1,000 lbs. combined fatter than Correa.  I think it's apples and oranges here.

Not really with Correas injury history.  He has played what I would consider a full season twice in his first 6 years in the league.

99

153

109

110

75

58

148

You are at your best and most athletic when you are younger of course...his history does not bode well for a 10 year deal worth over 300 mil IMO.

AGAIN, I will not be devastated if they sign him.  He is a great player and it will make the next few years a little more exciting to watch if he is on the team, but not THAT much more exciting than if they got Story or Simeon or Baez et al 

[gehringer_2]

3 minutes ago, John_Brian_K said:

his history does not bode well for a 10 year deal worth over 300 mil IMO.

Along this line, I won't be surprised to see Seager signed 1st.

[casimir]

7 minutes ago, John_Brian_K said:

Not really with Correas injury history.  He has played what I would consider a full season twice in his first 6 years in the league.

99

153

109

110

75

58

148

You are at your best and most athletic when you are younger of course...his history does not bode well for a 10 year deal worth over 300 mil IMO.

AGAIN, I will not be devastated if they sign him.  He is a great player and it will make the next few years a little more exciting to watch if he is on the team, but not THAT much more exciting than if they got Story or Simeon or Baez et al 

In fairness to Correa (I've been critical of his durability before), that 99 in his rookie season needs to be amended to 99 in MLB beginning with his promotion in early June, plus 53 minor league games before that promotion.  152 total games played in 2015.  I think I would call that a full season.

I don't know how to consider 2020 as full.  I guess I would just ignore the season.

Still, 3 full seasons played out of 6 total is a bit questionable.

[John_Brian_K]

5 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Along this line, I won't be surprised to see Seager signed 1st.

Seager is not any better in terms of injuries or games played.  He is actually worse, but he is not going to require 300+ mil over 10 years either...

[John_Brian_K]

2 minutes ago, casimir said:

In fairness to Correa (I've been critical of his durability before), that 99 in his rookie season needs to be amended to 99 in MLB beginning with his promotion in early June, plus 53 minor league games before that promotion.  152 total games played in 2015.  I think I would call that a full season.

I don't know how to consider 2020 as full.  I guess I would just ignore the season.

Still, 3 full seasons played out of 6 total is a bit questionable.

Even giving him 152 his rookie year he is averaging 115 games a year....300+ mil for 115 games?  Now he could very well go on to play 150+ games every year from here on out, but to me that is pie in the sky thinking...something 2010 JBK would be doing right now...while I am still an optimist...I also want to see the team contending every year for a long time.

[RandyMarsh]

I mentioned this before but aside from missing some time with a neck injury the rest of his injuries were complete flukes(hit by pitches, sliding into home and said catcher stepping on his hand, a broken rib from a massage gone wrong etc.) nothing that should point to him being a long term injury risk or risk of nagging injuries.

[Tiger337]

54 minutes ago, John_Brian_K said:

Seager is not any better in terms of injuries or games played.  He is actually worse, but he is not going to require 300+ mil over 10 years either...

I don't think Seager's salary will be far behind Correa.  

[Tiger337]

16 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I mentioned this before but aside from missing some time with a neck injury the rest of his injuries were complete flukes(hit by pitches, sliding into home and said catcher stepping on his hand, a broken rib from a massage gone wrong etc.) nothing that should point to him being a long term injury risk or risk of nagging injuries.

I see his injury history as similar to Seager.  It makes me a little nervous, but it's not necessarily an indicator of future injuries.  

[gehringer_2]

24 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I mentioned this before but aside from missing some time with a neck injury the rest of his injuries were complete flukes(hit by pitches, sliding into home and said catcher stepping on his hand, a broken rib from a massage gone wrong etc.) nothing that should point to him being a long term injury risk or risk of nagging injuries.

IDK, I think it's not necessarily better when it's 'fluke' injuries accumulating around a player. I guess you have to analyze each one individually but that kind of thing can indicate a certain lack of body consciousness or recklessness as well and that can be just a bad as actually being physically fragile. It's just really hard to know. A guy whose never been hurt can be done tomorrow, but guess if it were my money he's still the guy I'd prefer - if I have a choice.

Edited November 18, 2021 by gehringer_2

[Tigeraholic1]

28 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I mentioned this before but aside from missing some time with a neck injury the rest of his injuries were complete flukes(hit by pitches, sliding into home and said catcher stepping on his hand, a broken rib from a massage gone wrong etc.) nothing that should point to him being a long term injury risk or risk of nagging injuries.

?? Can someone explain this one lol.

[gehringer_2]

Just now, Tigeraholic1 said:

?? Can someone explain this one lol.

this is a family forum right? Maybe not.

[Tigeraholic1]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

this is a family forum right? Maybe not.

Oh so it was like a Trevor Bauer type of encounter?

[RandyMarsh]

2 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

?? Can someone explain this one lol.

Yeah that one caught my eye as well, I couldn't find any details but some people speculate that the massage table broke causing him to fall on the floor, either that or he was getting massaged by the Incredible Hulk. 

[chasfh]

19 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I wasn't totally against it either because Fielder was a great hitter, but it wasn't a good fit.  The following year they would have to figure out where to play Cabrera, Fielder and Martinez.  They wound up with too many 1b-dh types and not enough defense.   

Or baserunning. 😏

[chasfh]

40 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I see his injury history as similar to Seager.  It makes me a little nervous, but it's not necessarily an indicator of future injuries.  

FWIW, I remember early in Paul Molitor's career how disappointed people were that he has all this talent but couldn't stay on the field. They switched him to DH and he became comparatively an ironman. So there might be that option if it ever came to it.

[Tiger337]

On the other hand, the most similar batter at age 26 was Troy Tulowitzki.  

[John_Brian_K]

1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

I mentioned this before but aside from missing some time with a neck injury the rest of his injuries were complete flukes(hit by pitches, sliding into home and said catcher stepping on his hand, a broken rib from a massage gone wrong etc.) nothing that should point to him being a long term injury risk or risk of nagging injuries.

I guess, but most injuries are fluky anyway.  Once in awhile you get a guy that is pretty brittle compared to the norm and that is what I am worried about.  I think there is a real possibility wherever he ends up the team/fan base is going to REALLY hate that contract REALLY quickly.  Again that is just my gut though, but it is pretty substantial.

I am 100% honestly shocked I am one of the only people on here who seems to think signing him for over 300+ would be a bad idea.  Usually I am on the other side with the "It is not my money" type takes..

[John_Brian_K]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't think Seager's salary will be far behind Correa.  

I think Seager is going to sign for a pretty substantial amount less than Correa, but again that is just an opinion.  I guess we will all see pretty soon how much these guys get and where they go.

Give me Story or Simeon on a 5-6 year deal for 20 or so per...or whatever they may get.  I would be ok with that.

[RandyMarsh]

5 minutes ago, John_Brian_K said:

I guess, but most injuries are fluky anyway.  Once in awhile you get a guy that is pretty brittle compared to the norm and that is what I am worried about.  I think there is a real possibility wherever he ends up the team/fan base is going to REALLY hate that contract REALLY quickly.  Again that is just my gut though, but it is pretty substantial.

I am 100% honestly shocked I am one of the only people on here who seems to think signing him for over 300+ would be a bad idea.  Usually I am on the other side with the "It is not my money" type takes..

There's definitely risks and there is a relatively good chance if we give him say 10/300 there are going to be a few years whether it be at the end or him missing time/playing poorly out of those 10 where it's going to look brutal for the Tigers but I think it's worth the risk to try to take the team to the next level. 

Correa is a legit top 5-10 player in baseball when he's on the field that plays a premium position that we need and is only at the age where he's entering his prime. When you have a chance to acquire a player like that and it "only" costs money I think you have to do it. Especially when you're at the stage of the rebuild that we are.

Furthermore in a sport like baseball where there are no salary caps and young players are cheap you can afford to have an albatross contract or two and still be able to build a good team, so even if it does turn out bad down the road if we have the ability to draft and develop guys it won't prevent us from being good.

[Tiger337]

18 minutes ago, John_Brian_K said:

I think Seager is going to sign for a pretty substantial amount less than Correa, but again that is just an opinion.  I guess we will all see pretty soon how much these guys get and where they go.

 

Correa is a better fielder, but Seager hits just as well.  Seager might get a lower aggregate salary, but the contract  length should be similar.  The other options will be shorter in length.  

[Tiger337]

18 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

There's definitely risks and there is a relatively good chance if we give him say 10/300 there are going to be a few years whether it be at the end or him missing time/playing poorly out of those 10 where it's going to look brutal for the Tigers but I think it's worth the risk to try to take the team to the next level. 

 

If you want to advance, you gotta take a chance!

[Tenacious D]

Seager likely won't stay at SS, so that will be a consideration for any team signing him long term.

As for Correa's injury history, I really don't care.  I don't see how any of those were tied to a lack of conditioning or something else that was within his control.  

[John_Brian_K]

2 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

There's definitely risks and there is a relatively good chance if we give him say 10/300 there are going to be a few years whether it be at the end or him missing time/playing poorly out of those 10 where it's going to look brutal for the Tigers but I think it's worth the risk to try to take the team to the next level. 

Correa is a legit top 5-10 player in baseball when he's on the field that plays a premium position that we need and is only at the age where he's entering his prime. When you have a chance to acquire a player like that and it "only" costs money I think you have to do it. Especially when you're at the stage of the rebuild that we are.

Furthermore in a sport like baseball where there are no salary caps and young players are cheap you can afford to have an albatross contract or two and still be able to build a good team, so even if it does turn out bad down the road if we have the ability to draft and develop guys it won't prevent us from being good.

10 years 300 I may be able to stomach, but even then I would prefer one of the other guys on a shorter term.  We are seeing this all over baseball.  Guys getting 10 year deals and just not really living up to them, but it is what it is for now so the term is pretty much set in stone at this point.  Correa will get 10 years...how much over those 10 years?  Like I said I could stomach 300, but if he wants what Lindor got?  No thanks.  And yeah I would 100% let him walk for that extra 41 mil...even at 300 it is hard to stomach, but I would be ok with it.  I just think there is a better than average chance there will not just be a couple years regret with this contract at the end...I think the regret will start pretty quickly and just get uglier from there.

The key thing to your entire second paragraph is "when he is on the field".

There may be no cap in baseball and we did have an owner who was willing to throw the book at the salary to try and make a contender we cannot just assume Chris will follow that legacy.  I expect the Tigers to be in the top half of payrolls on most years, but I am not going to just expect them to be in the top 5 every year.  Correa is not a slam dunk and giving him over 300 mil for 10 years just makes me nervous.

You guys were right about some of the others in the past.  Miggys extension, Fielder, Dantrelle etc and I was on the wrong side of those arguments...if they do sign him I hope I am on the wrong side again.

[gehringer_2]

32 minutes ago, John_Brian_K said:

10 years 300 I may be able to stomach, but even then I would prefer one of the other guys on a shorter term.  We are seeing this all over baseball.  Guys getting 10 year deals and just not really living up to them, but it is what it is for now so the term is pretty much set in stone at this point.  Correa will get 10 years...how much over those 10 years?  Like I said I could stomach 300, but if he wants what Lindor got?  No thanks.  And yeah I would 100% let him walk for that extra 41 mil...even at 300 it is hard to stomach, but I would be ok with it.  I just think there is a better than average chance there will not just be a couple years regret with this contract at the end...I think the regret will start pretty quickly and just get uglier from there.

The key thing to your entire second paragraph is "when he is on the field".

There may be no cap in baseball and we did have an owner who was willing to throw the book at the salary to try and make a contender we cannot just assume Chris will follow that legacy.  I expect the Tigers to be in the top half of payrolls on most years, but I am not going to just expect them to be in the top 5 every year.  Correa is not a slam dunk and giving him over 300 mil for 10 years just makes me nervous.

You guys were right about some of the others in the past.  Miggys extension, Fielder, Dantrelle etc and I was on the wrong side of those arguments...if they do sign him I hope I am on the wrong side again.

I think the only guy that has paid off on a 10 yr deal was ARod's original deal from Tx. Because they signed him at 24. He produced every year on that contract until he opted out (now with the Yankees) of the last 3 yrs. Yankees then extended him for 10 yr at 31 and got only 5 productive years. If you look at Arod, Pujols and Cabrera - three of the greatest players of their eras - "generational" by any definition, and NONE of them could produce on a long term contract that took them into their later 30s. And Trout probably won't either. Just offer a guy $60M for 5 yrs and be done with it since that's what you are actually going to get! 

[RandyMarsh]

Not a hitter but Scherzer's 7 year deal has worked out but yeah very few deals that go more than 5 years end up working out long term but thats the price of going that direction.

If the first 6 years he helps us reach the playoffs 4 or 5 times then you can live with him not being worth it the last 4 years, particularly if he is atleast somewhat productive then.