2022 Trade Deadline

[RatkoVarda]

Trade deadline is now 7 weeks away. I honestly don't know who is doing the legwork on trades.

I assume Avila still makes final call, and obviously his record on small moves has been OK, and on big moves has been tragic.

People often overpay for BP arms, and boy they have a lot of them.

Edited June 13, 2022 by RatkoVarda

[tiger2022]

What are they really going to get for any of these bullpen arms?  I can't imagine it's going to be something as valuable as what they are giving away.  The bullpen is the only competent area that this organization has.  Better to just keep them and hope to sign some free agents next year and hope that Torkelson and Greene can be at least average MLB hitters next year.

[mtutiger]

3 minutes ago, tiger2022 said:

What are they really going to get for any of these bullpen arms?  I can't imagine it's going to be something as valuable as what they are giving away.  The bullpen is the only competent area that this organization has.  Better to just keep them and hope to sign some free agents next year and hope that Torkelson and Greene can be at least average MLB hitters next year.

They did manage to get Reese Olson for Daniel Norris last year, which looks pretty good considering how poor Norris' numbers were. But I don't know if that's a reasonable expectations to get a deal like that again.

The problem I see for the Tigers at the deadline is that, outside of Chafin and Fulmer, you have a lot of veteran guys on this team who would ideally be bait who have horrendous numbers so far, with little indication of much upside on return. And other guys who could be appealing, as you suggest, are bullpen guys like Lange and Vest who, given their age and how long they can be controlled, I have a hard time seeing them getting value that makes the risk of trading them worthwhile. 

Maybe if Schoop can go on a tear for a while in July, he could be interesting to teams, but idk, they are in that weird spot where none of the options make a lot of sense.

[tiger2022]

The Tigers could trade any of the position players away and I would be cool with it, but I can't imagine there is a big market for any of those guys.

The one player I would think about would be Soto; although, he really doesn't have a long track record, so I am not sure what the return would be.  There are probably more reliable vets out there most teams would feel more comfortable with.

[LongLiveMaroth]

The Athletic with their assumptions on who could be traded and the possible return. Nothing earth shattering, mainly RP which makes sense given the BP strength so far. Fulmer, Soto, Chafin, Grossman, Schoop are listed with Soto bringing back the biggest return for obvious reasons. They also made the assumption that the Dodgers may be the best trade partner for us with the possibility of Fulmer going there with the possible return of Eddys Leonard or Jorbit Vivas which all things considered I would consider a win if that happened especially since our personnel are pretty familiar with the Dodgers system. 

[mtutiger]

18 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said:

The Athletic with their assumptions on who could be traded and the possible return. Nothing earth shattering, mainly RP which makes sense given the BP strength so far. Fulmer, Soto, Chafin, Grossman, Schoop are listed with Soto bringing back the biggest return for obvious reasons. They also made the assumption that the Dodgers may be the best trade partner for us with the possibility of Fulmer going there with the possible return of Eddys Leonard or Jorbit Vivas which all things considered I would consider a win if that happened especially since our personnel are pretty familiar with the Dodgers system. 

Leonard or Vivas would be great, although IDK if Fulmer alone brings that back. 

I liked that Cody mentioned the Mets as well and Brett Baty, who would be a pretty good fit with where this team lacks, particularly if the team is concerned about Candy as a long term option. Although I doubt Soto would be enough and that the Mets will want to trade him lol

I don't know how much of a sweetener it would be for teams, but the Tigers should be open to tapping their minor league pitchers to add to a reliever if it would generate a better return. 

Edited July 1, 2022 by mtutiger

[mtutiger]

Robbie Grossman mentioned in this story.

Curious to see what the end game is with Joey Gallo and the Yankees.... free agent at the end of the year, but to date, they still seem intent on going with him over Andujar in Pinstripes.

[1984Echoes]

Fulmer for Eddys Leonard is a win for me...

[SoCalTiger]

Thanks Al for yet another trade deadline sell off. Well done. Mission accomplished. Rebuild over. Not. Soon we will hear the long and repeated list of bad luck...injuries...bad luck etc. 

2017 Tigers worst record and Giants second worst. We loose 90 plus and the Giants win 100 last year and headed for 90 this year. I don’t know but guessing their payroll is lower than ours also.  
 

But have no fear the rebuild is over. 

[StatikIEV]

This year is pretty much a write-off today, but for sure we will know if we can put a fork in it by the deadline/Aug 2.

IMO, we have a need to replace at lease 1 of the 4 positional horsemen of incompetence (Schoop, Grossman, Candelario, Barnhart) immediately.

We have drafted and stocked our butts off for pitching depth during our tank-a-thon (to the detriment of positional strength). And quite frankly, despite the frequent flyer points we are getting for our pitcher's time spent at the doctor's office, those that have avoided the IL have still performed decently enough, and we seemingly now have an endless stream of talent, both getting healthy and coming down the pipeline.

So just how many quality SPs will be in camp in the Spring of 2024?  Pretty sure it's like 100. 

My point is this, let's trade some shiny pitching things to replace at least 1 of the horsemen of suckatude...sure, we have a couple prospects that 'could' pan out at C, 2b, 3b, OF, but they are all solidly in the 'maybe good enough, let's see what happens' camp'...and that's it.  Also, it's not like we have real prospect depth at any of these positions if option 1 doesn't work out.

We could have moved a pile of pitchers for real positional talent the past few years...but we just did nothing and watched them depreciate themselves with us (waves to Fulmer, Turnbull, Boyd, Jimenez, etc., etc.). 

So who cares?  We only mark Skubal as untouchable...trade ANYONE else (pros or minors) for a 'controllable and competent'  fill at any of those 4 black hole positions. 

Not saying we trade all our depth, but let's send out a league-wide memo that they are all available, and pull the trigger on the best option presented back to us to fill ONE of those positions...then we can put the fence back around the other 99 pitchers who are still left with us.

...just my 2p.  That is, unless the Tigers got wind of a secret MLB plan that in 2024 there will be 324 games played, every day will be a doubleheader...and we don't want to be caught without arms.

[mtutiger]

48 minutes ago, StatikIEV said:

This year is pretty much a write-off today, but for sure we will know if we can put a fork in it by the deadline/Aug 2.

IMO, we have a need to replace at lease 1 of the 4 positional horsemen of incompetence (Schoop, Grossman, Candelario, Barnhart) immediately.

We have drafted and stocked our butts off for pitching depth during our tank-a-thon (to the detriment of positional strength). And quite frankly, despite the frequent flyer points we are getting for our pitcher's time spent at the doctor's office, those that have avoided the IL have still performed decently enough, and we seemingly now have an endless stream of talent, both getting healthy and coming down the pipeline.

So just how many quality SPs will be in camp in the Spring of 2024?  Pretty sure it's like 100. 

My point is this, let's trade some shiny pitching things to replace at least 1 of the horsemen of suckatude...sure, we have a couple prospects that 'could' pan out at C, 2b, 3b, OF, but they are all solidly in the 'maybe good enough, let's see what happens' camp'...and that's it.  Also, it's not like we have real prospect depth at any of these positions if option 1 doesn't work out.

We could have moved a pile of pitchers for real positional talent the past few years...but we just did nothing and watched them depreciate themselves with us (waves to Fulmer, Turnbull, Boyd, Jimenez, etc., etc.). 

So who cares?  We only mark Skubal as untouchable...trade ANYONE else (pros or minors) for a 'controllable and competent'  fill at any of those 4 black hole positions. 

Not saying we trade all our depth, but let's send out a league-wide memo that they are all available, and pull the trigger on the best option presented back to us to fill ONE of those positions...then we can put the fence back around the other 99 pitchers who are still left with us.

...just my 2p.  That is, unless the Tigers got wind of a secret MLB plan that in 2024 there will be 324 games played, every day will be a doubleheader...and we don't want to be caught without arms.

This is right.... just from last year's draft alone, they have Madden, Dylan Smith and Brant Hurter, who, with how they have performed, all look fairly promising. And Garrett Burhenn, who is still in Lakeland and probably shouldn't be based on his performance and experience level.

It is by design, to an extent.. the team sanctioned Road to Detroit podcast had some interview clips with Ryan Garko this week where he said that they aspire to that endless supply of pitching, but I definitely think they are at a point where they can part with one or two of these guys or other prospects (such as Olson or Bergner) if it helps fill these short term positions of need, without it being too much of a burden to the system.

But again, the question then becomes what any of those arms bring back on trade, even if they are paired with a bullpen piece.... fans tend to overrate what they can get in return.

Edited July 1, 2022 by mtutiger

[alex]

6 hours ago, LongLiveMaroth said:

The Athletic with their assumptions on who could be traded and the possible return. Nothing earth shattering, mainly RP which makes sense given the BP strength so far. Fulmer, Soto, Chafin, Grossman, Schoop are listed with Soto bringing back the biggest return for obvious reasons. They also made the assumption that the Dodgers may be the best trade partner for us with the possibility of Fulmer going there with the possible return of Eddys Leonard or Jorbit Vivas which all things considered I would consider a win if that happened especially since our personnel are pretty familiar with the Dodgers system. 

I would think any trade would have to include multiple inputs (not just AA thoughts). If I were the Tigers I would maybe stay away from A and even some AA players. That would mean more 'development' from our end and with our positional player history...

I feel 'if' the Tigers wanted to they could get a more higher level player(s) who could be ready soon. They just have to get creative and quit emphasizing 'multiple' prospects (aka Nick C., J.D., JV, SGreene, etc.) for returns. It really has not been working for the majority of transactions.

Certain teams will be 'Going for it.' The NYY will need RP (maybe two) and an OF perhaps. Maybe we add in a prospect our selves and possibly ask for one of their higher level INF prospects and/or additionally MAndujar or EFlorial (both are blocked in NY) - but where are we with DHill, Daz, Akil, VReyes, Willi C, etc in comparison to for 'example' EFlorial. There are other teams in similar situations with certain players.

It can be done... I/we hope it is... or simply our history of trades will become even further lopsided during the AA regime.

[StatikIEV]

8 hours ago, mtutiger said:

This is right.... just from last year's draft alone, they have Madden, Dylan Smith and Brant Hurter, who, with how they have performed, all look fairly promising. And Garrett Burhenn, who is still in Lakeland and probably shouldn't be based on his performance and experience level.

It is by design, to an extent.. the team sanctioned Road to Detroit podcast had some interview clips with Ryan Garko this week where he said that they aspire to that endless supply of pitching, but I definitely think they are at a point where they can part with one or two of these guys or other prospects (such as Olson or Bergner) if it helps fill these short term positions of need, without it being too much of a burden to the system.

But again, the question then becomes what any of those arms bring back on trade, even if they are paired with a bullpen piece.... fans tend to overrate what they can get in return.

I'm with you 100 percent here.  That's why my 'gentle suggestion' to the team is to open up all the pitchers org wide (ex-skubal) and take the best positional fill opportunity that presents itself.

Every team wants, and highly values, legitimate pitching prospects...and they will offer high quality players in return, but GMs are hesitant to do this because of the possibility they are moving a 'John Smoltz'...which get them fired, or much maligned in the future.  The reality because of this...is trades rarely happen, but if we get what we want today, we accept those odds as the cost of playing ball.

Ie) Fulmer, although doing lovely for us atm, has little value when it comes to bringing in a multi-year/controlled impact player...dude is broken 50% of the time, so he isn't reliable...and when he is going well, he thinks he is worth double what you are paying him and can't wait to leave town.  In other words, most of our 'known commodity' pitching names in today's lineup on the field are functionally useless to us on the trade market.

The guys that will bring 'real' players are the likes of recent first rounders... Madden, Mize, Manning, Jobe, and combos of Olson, Smith, Soto, Faedo, Brieske, Wentz, Perez (?), Flores, Bergner, Hurter, etc. with other organizational/big league fodder like Fulmer-types for a half season.

Is one or two of those guys listed great?  A 20, 30, 50+ WAR guy...yeah sure, maybe one of them. 

It is for that reason that the 'big brain' analytical teams of the league would fall in love picking through our 'untapped pitching depth'...and would be more than happy to box up an above average/capable positional player, that is in the midst of a ~2 to 4 WAR year THIS year, that they know they will be unable to sign, and will lose this player in a couple years. 

I will take that 6 to 12 WAR player over the next 3 years at the positions we currently have negative returns on the field...that's a significant and marked improvement, and the other team can have what they covet...a long term controlled, lottery ticket for greatness.

...or Illitch can open his wallet some more, but that seems unlikely until Cabrera is launched into orbit in 2024.

 

Edited July 2, 2022 by StatikIEV

[Tiger337]

Shop all of the relievers, even the young ones.  I am not saying trade them all, but do not hesitate to trade any reliever who brings a good return.   

[buddha]

18 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Shop all of the relievers, even the young ones.  I am not saying trade them all, but do not hesitate to trade any reliever who brings a good return.   

depends on what you get in return, i guess.

if only theo were still running a team.  that dude will trade his whole farm system for a loogy on a hot streak.

ah theo, the only gm who could lead yhe red sox and cubs to the playoffs AND get fleeced in a trade by al avila.  

[Tenacious D]

Somebody on the Tweeter proposed trading Skubal for a big haul, given the dearth of available good starting pitching.  Would be an easier decision to make if you thought ERod was coming back.

I’m OK with punting on this season.  Call up Fister, Porcello and Milt Wilcox and see if anyone wants to pitch some innings.  Or move Harold to the rotation and bring up Zach Short to pitch the garbage innings.

[HeyAbbott]

On 7/4/2022 at 4:31 PM, Tiger337 said:

Shop all of the relievers, even the young ones.  I am not saying trade them all, but do not hesitate to trade any reliever who brings a good return.   

Relievers are such a flash-in-the-pan, flavor-of-the-month commodity I certainly agree with this.

[RatkoVarda]

Fulmer and Chafin and Pineda are walking so sign them or trade them (or better yet do both)

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/07/top-50-trade-mlb-trade-candidates.html

 

 

 

[LongLiveMaroth]

15 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

Fulmer and Chafin and Pineda are walking so sign them or trade them (or better yet do both)

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/07/top-50-trade-mlb-trade-candidates.html

 

 

 

I'd throw Jimenez on there as well, RP's are so up and down get what you can for them then bring up the kids since this season is lost anyways. 

[mtutiger]

19 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

Fulmer and Chafin and Pineda are walking so sign them or trade them (or better yet do both)

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/07/top-50-trade-mlb-trade-candidates.html

 

 

 

Chafin signed here in part due to proximity to his farm in Ohio and seems to place a high premium on that. So I could see him exercising his option after this season despite the issues with the team.

The others I agree, but Chafin needs that caveat imo

Edited July 13, 2022 by mtutiger

[gkelly]

The Tigers should try to get Andujar from the Yankees.  He would easily be the best hitter in the organization as soon as the deal was done.

[Tigeraholic1]

3 hours ago, mtutiger said:

Chafin signed here in part due to proximity to his farm in Ohio and seems to place a high premium on that. So I could see him exercising his option after this season despite the issues with the team.

The others I agree, but Chafin needs that caveat imo

I took my boy to a game a few weeks back and got there ealry enough to catch some players walking in for autographs. Here comes Chafin pulling up in a F350 dually diesel truck. It barely fit through the entrance of the parking garage!

Edited July 13, 2022 by Tigeraholic1

[casimir]

4 hours ago, gkelly said:

The Tigers should try to get Andujar from the Yankees.  He would easily be the best hitter in the organization as soon as the deal was done.

He stinks.  But he still might be an upgrade.  That’s a problem.

[tiger2022]

Like I said, he would be the best hitter in the Tigers organization the minute he steps on the field.  

The Tigers have the worst starting 1st baseman, 2nd baseman, and 3rd baseman in the majors.

The starting catcher, outfielders, and DH (just because he has zero power) are all at the bottom.

This is the worst Tiger's offensive team I have ever watched.

The only 2 players that even hit the ball regularly with authority are Haase and Baez, and those guys sure do like to swing and miss a lot.

[LongLiveMaroth]

7 minutes ago, tiger2022 said:

Like I said, he would be the best hitter in the Tigers organization the minute he steps on the field.  

The Tigers have the worst starting 1st baseman, 2nd baseman, and 3rd baseman in the majors.

The starting catcher, outfielders, and DH (just because he has zero power) are all at the bottom.

This is the worst Tiger's offensive team I have ever watched.

The only 2 players that even hit the ball regularly with authority are Haase and Baez, and those guys sure do like to swing and miss a lot.

Hard pass on Andujar; defensive liability and has been unable to put up an OPS above 700 in the majors since 2018. He is a AAAA player not worth the trade capital.