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08/14/2022 2:10 EDT Detroit Tigers at Chicago White Sox


casimir

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I am the worst nightmare of a Tiger fan.   I am beyond pissed off.  5th stage of Grief.  Acceptance. 

I haven't watched even a few minutes of a Tiger game since maybe July 7th or 8th.   I haven't even watched Highlights.  

I simply don't care anymore.   I won't waste my time on it.    Why bother?    Worse than a die hard fan's anger is a die hard fans apathy.   I was hate-watching them for a while, now they don't make s speck of difference in my life and my life is just fine.   Don't want 'em, Don't need 'em.   I'll be a sucker again in February, but not this year.   Only thing that matters to me now is that they don't stop at just Al Avila.   

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8 hours ago, mtutiger said:

Best case scenario for next year to me is if Riley / Spencer make significant strides (feel decent about Riley doing that, concerned about Spencer), Meadows comes back healthy and performs and somehow adding 2-3 2-WAR position players (would likely have to be through free agency, but trade market with young starters may be possible). 

But even with that plus better luck on the starting pitching side? Probably enough to get them back into the high 70s in wins, but hard to see much beyond that. But may put them in a position to compete on 2024.

They really can't do another rebuild, but it's not clear to me that they should or even want to. Between Chris and AJs comments, it seems like they want more to try to build off what they have as opposed to tearing down.

Yeah, this is spot on.  They cannot go back to scratch, what would be the point of trying to promise everybody another 5 year rainbow?  You might as well rename them the New Royals and dare people to see an eternally poor product.

And yes, it starts with REASONABLE assumptions as you laid out above.

- Tork, Greene, and Meadows have to each be 2-3 WAR guys, as they were projected to be in 2022, and anybody that says that any of these 3 guys CAN'T do 2-3 WAR each in 2023 doesn't know what they are talking about.  This is not a prediction, this is a screaming need and a reasonable expectation.

- Baez's last two months (115 OPS+, 4+ WAR if he plays his normal D for year) is what we are going to see from him for at least 2023 and no dramatic dropoff through 2024.

- the Bullpen continues to do as well as they have from the beginning of 2021.  

2B, 3B, and LF:

- Schoop continues to provide plus D and somehow is able to stop being a black hole as a hitter and do something more like 80-90 OPS+, which is still bad, but would be a 2+ WAR player with plus D.  Sadly, there really isn't another option in the FA market or in the minors ready-to-go in 2023, and they are paying Schoop $7M.

- They are able to cobble together a non-black-hole situation at 3B, maybe through a combination of Harold and a middling acquisition like Joey Wendle, and maybe they get lucky and Lipcius comes up at some point in 2023 and doesn't suck at 3B, and/or maybe they give Candy a bare-bones one-year contract for the league minimum and see if he can figure out how to hit a baseball again.

- They are able to sign one of the few decent FA OFers or trade for someone decent.  The OF is generally where you hope that D. Cabrera and/or Carpenter also fill a gap decently for 150 PAs or so.

- The Starting Rotation is going to be a plug-and-pray situation.  Hopefully among Skubal, Manning, Turnbull and Brieske, there's enough healthy starts to cover at least 60 starts with decent pitching.  Hopefully they can fill one other slot decently with available healthier options.

That would leave a need for at least one other guy more likely two.  I hate hate hate to depend on Eduardo again, but he may be a necessary option.  That still would leave probably one other guy, a FA or trade acquisition.  Given what little there is to trade, probably a modest FA acquisition.

That's a 3Bman, LFer, and at least one SP....probably two FAs (LF and SP) and a trade acquisition at 3B.

If Meadows, Tork and Greene get it done then they are in the mid-70's...if they hit lighting in a bottle with the other positions maybe they luck their way into a winning season.

It aint much but it's probably all they have to go on at this point. 

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14 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

Yeah, this is spot on.  They cannot go back to scratch, what would be the point of trying to promise everybody another 5 year rainbow?  You might as well rename them the New Royals and dare people to see an eternally poor product.

And yes, it starts with REASONABLE assumptions as you laid out above.

- Tork, Greene, and Meadows have to each be 2-3 WAR guys, as they were projected to be in 2022, and anybody that says that any of these 3 guys CAN'T do 2-3 WAR each in 2023 doesn't know what they are talking about.  This is not a prediction, this is a screaming need and a reasonable expectation.

- Baez's last two months (115 OPS+, 4+ WAR if he plays his normal D for year) is what we are going to see from him for at least 2023 and no dramatic dropoff through 2024.

- the Bullpen continues to do as well as they have from the beginning of 2021.  

2B, 3B, and LF:

- Schoop continues to provide plus D and somehow is able to stop being a black hole as a hitter and do something more like 80-90 OPS+, which is still bad, but would be a 2+ WAR player with plus D.  Sadly, there really isn't another option in the FA market or in the minors ready-to-go in 2023, and they are paying Schoop $7M.

- They are able to cobble together a non-black-hole situation at 3B, maybe through a combination of Harold and a middling acquisition like Joey Wendle, and maybe they get lucky and Lipcius comes up at some point in 2023 and doesn't suck at 3B, and/or maybe they give Candy a bare-bones one-year contract for the league minimum and see if he can figure out how to hit a baseball again.

- They are able to sign one of the few decent FA OFers or trade for someone decent.  The OF is generally where you hope that D. Cabrera and/or Carpenter also fill a gap decently for 150 PAs or so.

- The Starting Rotation is going to be a plug-and-pray situation.  Hopefully among Skubal, Manning, Turnbull and Brieske, there's enough healthy starts to cover at least 60 starts with decent pitching.  Hopefully they can fill one other slot decently with available healthier options.

That would leave a need for at least one other guy more likely two.  I hate hate hate to depend on Eduardo again, but he may be a necessary option.  That still would leave probably one other guy, a FA or trade acquisition.  Given what little there is to trade, probably a modest FA acquisition.

That's a 3Bman, LFer, and at least one SP....probably two FAs (LF and SP) and a trade acquisition at 3B.

If Meadows, Tork and Greene get it done then they are in the mid-70's...if they hit lighting in a bottle with the other positions maybe they luck their way into a winning season.

It aint much but it's probably all they have to go on at this point. 

We're on the same page.

I really like the idea of bringing in Wilmer Flores. Professional hitter who is versatile and plays all over the diamond.

Who knows, maybe he has a close relationship with his brother and would like to play behind him one day lol

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6 hours ago, Tigermojo said:

The veteran hitters on this team are just an embarrassment. Both runs from Greene and Baddoo.

And they've reached the point where they are trapped in a mutual death spiral. It's hard enough to hit in the majors, but when there is never a guy on base when you are up to put the pitcher in the stretch, let alone maybe be a threat to steal, and nobody gets to hit when the man in the on-deck circle is a threat to go  yard, it just gives the opposing pitchers even more advantage.

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1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

And they've reached the point where they are trapped in a mutual death spiral. It's hard enough to hit in the majors, but when there is never a guy on base when you are up to put the pitcher in the stretch, let alone maybe be a threat to steal, and nobody gets to hit when the man in the on-deck circle is a threat to go  yard, it just gives the opposing pitchers even more advantage.

Get rid of the damn ping pong table! (and Coolbaugh)

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On 8/14/2022 at 3:04 PM, 1984Echoes said:

Just looked at the bottom of the Tigers lineup today... And see we have:

 

Jeimer Mendoza

Kody Mendoza

Tucker Mendoza

Akil Mendoza

 

That's impressive!

I think Tucker Mendoza is upset with me for posting this...

And...

It looks like Kerry wants to "be a somebody... not a nobody..."

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