Shinzaki Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 When the HC says he wants the CB's to jam the WR's at the line and they don't...some body has to answer for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) 32 minutes ago, NYLion said: The bolded is exactly right and it's not like those teams are blessed with much more talent on the offensive side of the ball in particular. I don't think 3 wins is going to cut it. He's going to need at least 4 wins to survive and for the team to show some real progress. It's not all about wins/losses but it has to be somewhat about that, can't polish the turd of a 3 win or less season after a 3 win season. According to Football Outsiders the Giants defense is ranked 27th in terms of DVOA and their offense is only 15th. Yet somehow, they are 6-2 and on track to be a playoff team. The Jets have the 19th ranked offense and 9th ranked defense and are on track to make the playoffs. The Falcons have the 9th ranked offense and are 31st in defensive DVOA and are on track to win their division and make the playoffs. Why are Daboll, Saleh, and Smith finding success and Campbell isn't? They aren't trotting out units that are significantly more talented or better across the board than Campbell is. Their talent level isn't way better than ours. They're starting Daniel Jones, Marcus Mariotta, and Zac Wilson at QB for God sakes. Sure, the Jets defense is better than ours, but our offense is better than there's. Furthermore, the other thing that can't be judged in a vacuum is Brad Holmes' player acquisitions as a GM. You can point the finger at Holmes for bad draft picks like Levi and Melifonwu. You can blame him for drafting Jameson Williams over Jordan Davis. You can say he stood pat on defense and brought back the same collection of poor performers from the prior season. But you can't just say that's all Holmes' fault. Those moves are on Campbell too. Holmes didn't draft in a dark room, alone, by himself. Nor did he run free agency that way. He consulted with Dan Campbell, Aaron Glenn, Ben Johnson, and all the positional coaches, scouts, player personnel people. I'm sure that if Campbell and Glenn weren't happy with the defensive players they trotted out last year they would have had every opportunity to speak out and demand more be done to fix this defense and bring more talent in on that side of the ball. Edited October 31, 2022 by Mr.TaterSalad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 26 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: I have used the word improvement all season long and during the preseason. I wanted to see improvement among individual players, position groups, and the coaching staff. I think we've seen that individually among some players. I certainly think the offense as a position group has improved when healthy and on the field together. Here in my mind are the players who have either somewhat or substantially improve and those that have regressed or not improved. Improved: Amon'Ra St. Brown, Jeff Okudah (substantially improved), Josh Reynolds, Kalif Raymond, Kerby Jospeh (a little bit), Malcolm Rodriguez, Penei Sewell Regressed: Alex Anzalone (was he any good to begin with), Amani Oruwariye (he's turned into an awful player), Charles Harris (a complete ghost), DeShon Elliott, Derek Barnes, Michael Brockers, Will Harris For all the guys I feel have improved and the offensive improvement that has happened, it simply hasn't been enough to bring this team success or make the coaching staff look good. The other problem that Campbell has is that you can't measure him in a vacuum, you have to compare him to his peers. Unfortunately for him, some of his rookie/2nd year coaching peers like Daboll, Saleh, Smith, all have better records than he does. Anzalone: You are correct, he was never good. Oruwariye: He really never was good, but he had a lot of interceptions last year. Harris: Was a 1st round bust and had one good year. I guess the coaching staff doesn't get credit for the one and only good year he had Elliot: He has a 65 PFF grade. In 2021 he was a 65 and in 2020 a 66 and in 2019 69 in limited snaps. Not seeing the regression. Barnes: Is actually better this year but still awful. Brockers: Is old and washed up. Probably also benefited playing along side Donald. Harris: See Anzalone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) All of my posts here are just a long, convoluted way of saying that Dan Campbell and Aaron Glenn shouldn't be fired yet, but their seats should be real warm and their leash getting shorter and shorter by the loss. In the NFL, where teams like the Giants, Falcons, Jets, and Seahawks prove how quickly rebuilds happen, sometimes you don't get the long leash you would desire when you came in. I want Campbell to succeed, I want the Lions to win a lot, I want to watch winning football. I'm tired of being a miserable prick about this team and constantly having to search for the negative in everything. I hope Dan Campbell finds tremendous success during his time here, but so far, I'm just not seeing the level of improvement necessary to justify his seat not at least being warm. Edited October 31, 2022 by Mr.TaterSalad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 God I can't wait until the Giants and Jets come back to reality. It may have already started with the clunkers they put up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said: God I can't wait until the Giants and Jets come back to reality. It may have already started with the clunkers they put up. If they do, and they may well, then the conversation changes. We can't predict the future and so we are where we are at and have to have discussions about it. If 1st and 2nd year coaches like Brian Daboll, Robert Saleh, Mike McDaniel, or Arthur Smith go 2-8, 3-7 the rest of the way then that certainly helps Campbell out and makes him not look quite as bad. If these teams continue to succeed and make the playoffs and Campbell's team continues to struggle then that makes him look worse. I don't think anyone is making any certainties or guarantees about where the Dolphins, Giants, Falcons, Jets will end up at season's end. Some fans, myself included, are just comparing the Lions 2nd year head coach to those around him because that's all we've got at this point. If we were 3-4 and you wanted to preach the patience game, I'd say that is more than acceptable. But we aren't. We are the worst team in the entire league with a 1-6 record. It's hard to preach and buy into patience when you are that bad and aren't seeing substantial, sustainable improvements across the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 Miami won 9 games last year and spent a ton of capital acquiring Hill so I'm not sure why McDaniel is being mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 Just now, Motown Bombers said: Miami won 9 games last year and spent a ton of capital acquiring Hill so I'm not sure why McDaniel is being mentioned. Because he's a rookie head coach with no prior coaching experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 the jets and giants will come back to earth. there is no reason why the lions have a worse record than the bears, who are the least talented team in the league and are trading away any talented player they have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 5 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: Because he's a rookie head coach with no prior coaching experience. But he inherited a much better team. This would be more comparable to when Patricia was hired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 Just now, Motown Bombers said: But he inherited a much better team. This would be more comparable to when Patricia was hired. I thought Tua was supposed to be garbage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 Just now, Mr.TaterSalad said: I thought Tua was supposed to be garbage? Funny how QBs look better when you put talent around them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 Just now, Motown Bombers said: Funny how QBs look better when you put talent around them. So now the narrative is changing from Tua is garbage to Tua is not? Garbage QBs don't succeed no matter who is around them. Nate Sudfeld wouldn't be 5-3 as Dolphins QB. Some of us wanted one of Tua/Herbert in 2020 when we drafted Okudah instead. We were mocked through Tua's 1st 2 seasons and basically told he wasn't any good. Looks like he's actually pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: So now the narrative is changing from Tua is garbage to Tua is not? Garbage QBs don't succeed no matter who is around them. Nate Sudfeld wouldn't be 5-3 as Dolphins QB. Some of us wanted one of Tua/Herbert in 2020 when we drafted Okudah instead. We were mocked through Tua's 1st 2 seasons and basically told he wasn't any good. Looks like he's actually pretty good. You were mocked because Tua is not as good as Stafford. The Lions had a franchise QB who made players around him better. Tua is Goff. He's good enough to win with talent around him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 49 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: So now the narrative is changing from Tua is garbage to Tua is not? Garbage QBs don't succeed no matter who is around them. Nate Sudfeld wouldn't be 5-3 as Dolphins QB. Some of us wanted one of Tua/Herbert in 2020 when we drafted Okudah instead. We were mocked through Tua's 1st 2 seasons and basically told he wasn't any good. Looks like he's actually pretty good. tua isnt very good but the dolphins have put a scheme around him that plays to any strengths he may have. they get rid of the ball quickly to two of the fastest receivers in the game. every time he throws the ball past 20 yards its a long, slow duck that his receivers have to wait for. he's got a noodle arm. be honest tater, if the lions drafted tua you'd be complaining they didnt draft herbert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, buddha said: tua isnt very good but the dolphins have put a scheme around him that plays to any strengths he may have. they get rid of the ball quickly to two of the fastest receivers in the game. every time he throws the ball past 20 yards its a long, slow duck that his receivers have to wait for. he's got a noodle arm. be honest tater, if the lions drafted tua you'd be complaining they didnt draft herbert. If the old board was still you could have seen my posts. I was calling for the Lions to draft any one of Tua, Herbert or Isiah Simmons. Tua atop my list over Herbert. Edited October 31, 2022 by Mr.TaterSalad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 7 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: If the old board was still you could have seen my posts. I was calling for the Lions to draft any one of Tua, Herbert or Isiah Simmons. Tua atop my list over Herbert. You also wanted to draft Connor Cook. It was more about Stafford hating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said: You also wanted to draft Connor Cook. It was more about Stafford hating. Sure. I take big opinions on things and sometimes I am wrong. I mean, I could take no opinion and just try to act like a water carrying contrarian all day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) The 6-1 first place Vikings have scored 173 points, tied for most in the division with the Lions. The Vikings have given up 144 points. The Lions 225. 80 more points given up over 7 games. That's over 11 more points per game. Me thinks it's the defense. Edited November 1, 2022 by Motown Bombers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 Over halfway through the 3rd quarter and the defending AFC Champs haven't scored a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 Trade deadline day. NFL still isn’t as active as the other sports but there seems to be more deals now than in the past. Hock has been rumored but I’d be surprised if the Lions bite. They’d love to move Brockers but I don’t see anyone giving up even conditional 7th for him. I wonder if teams will call on Swift and if the Lions would listen. Jamaal is an interesting name too. There could be a market for him and the team would happily take a 6th for him on an expiring contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, Motown Bombers said: The 6-1 first place Vikings have scored 173 points, tied for most in the division with the Lions. The Vikings have given up 144 points. The Lions 225. 80 more points given up over 7 games. That's over 11 more points per game. Me thinks it's the defense. Well duh, everybody knows the defense is the biggest issue, but the offense hasn't scored a second half TD in 3 straight games so it's a combination of a historically bad defense and an unclutch offense that struggles with the game on the line along with a coaching staff that has failed to make adjustments in second halves. Pick your poison. With that said, I'm far more comfortable with the offense going forward (even with Goff), to state of the obvious, but both units have played a part in the 1-6 start. Edited November 1, 2022 by NYLion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Hongbit said: Trade deadline day. NFL still isn’t as active as the other sports but there seems to be more deals now than in the past. Hock has been rumored but I’d be surprised if the Lions bite. They’d love to move Brockers but I don’t see anyone giving up even conditional 7th for him. I wonder if teams will call on Swift and if the Lions would listen. Jamaal is an interesting name too. There could be a market for him and the team would happily take a 6th for him on an expiring contract. Can't see the Lions doing anything. Their only seemingly available guy with any value is Hockenson and I'd be shocked if he was dealt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 23 minutes ago, NYLion said: Well duh, everybody knows the defense is the biggest issue, but the offense hasn't scored a second half TD in 3 straight games so it's a combination of a historically bad defense and an unclutch offense that struggles with the game on the line along with a coaching staff that has failed to make adjustments in second halves. Pick your poison. With that said, I'm far more comfortable with the offense going forward (even with Goff), to state of the obvious, but both units have played a part in the 1-6 start. The Vikings average 11.0 PPG in the second half and the Lions 10.7 PPG in the second half which is more than the Eagles and Dolphins for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 The Lions have only won the coin toss once and received in the 2nd half once. I wonder what affect that has on 1st and 2nd half scoring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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