Week Eleven: Detroit Lions (3-6) @ New York Giants (7-2)

[Motown Bombers]

"Scapegoated Aubry Pleasant" even though the secondary has played much better in his absence.

The Jets are farther along in their rebuild than the Lions. Douglas is on his second head coach and they traded their best player and received the full compensation already. The Lions still haven't received their return on the Stafford trade.

[Jason_R]

Position coach was not implementing the game plan and the team was suffering as a result so he got fired and his unit instantly performed better = “scapegoating”? 

Hmmm… 🤔

[Tigeraholic1]

Bad intel on Jaymo window I guess. As long as we are looking forward to a Lions game going into Thanksgiving that’s a great thing.

[Tigeraholic1]

32 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

"Scapegoated Aubry Pleasant" even though the secondary has played much better in his absence.

The Jets are farther along in their rebuild than the Lions. Douglas is on his second head coach and they traded their best player and received the full compensation already. The Lions still haven't received their return on the Stafford trade.

Very good point. Going into this season no one expected that Rams pick to go any higher than 25th.

[Jason_R]

Jaymo is a first round pick. We add two more next season, along with two seconds and a third. That is potentially six new starters. Now you have a rebuild. Until then, all of the hot seat talk is meaningless. 

[buddha]

i dont think there is a coach in the state of michigan that tater hasnt wanted to fire at some point.

[RedRamage]

15 hours ago, Jason_R said:

Jaymo is a first round pick. We add two more next season, along with two seconds and a third. That is potentially six new starters. Now you have a rebuild. Until then, all of the hot seat talk is meaningless. 

If you're expecting Detroit to find two starters in round two, you're going to have a bad time...

[MichiganCardinal]

53 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

If you're expecting Detroit to find two starters in round two, you're going to have a bad time...

Paschal seems like he’s working out so far. Still very early in a rookie year that didn’t have a training camp, but my hope is that Levi is a one-off for this regime.

[Motown Bombers]

 

[NYLion]

19 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I get that the Ravens controlled most of that game, but the Giants fought all the way until the end and won. I feel however that just as Campbell deserves credit for bringing this team back against the Bears to pull out a win, Daboll deserves similar credit for keeping his team in it and rallying back in the 4th quarter to win against the Ravens. The Giants were within one score of beating the Cowboys. We weren't even within two scores of the Cowboys. They looked competitive and we did not.

The Giants may well prove to be frauds, as the Jets and Seahawks might too. The reason I focus on the Giants and Jets the most though is several reasons, Seahawks are different because of Pete Carroll and their GM John Schneider having been there for a long time.

First, those were two teams thought to be in similar stages of the rebuild as the Lions and early season indicators are that they are ahead of us. I knew our rebuild would likely be a 3 year process given how bad this roster was when Campbell and Holmes took over. Analysts and experts had the Giants and Jets rosters in similar situations and both teams have come out and been surprise teams thus far.

Second, it would be one thing if both of these teams were winning with elite-level QB play, but they aren't. Neither Daniel Jones nor Zach Wilson/Joe Flacco are out performing Goff. They are at best as good as Goff, but potentially worse than Goff and they are still winning games in spite of that. We had a top 5 offense through the first 5 weeks of the season, in a league predicated on offense to win game, and came out with one win.

Third, they are being coached by two guys I wanted here in Detroit over Campbell in Daboll and Saleh. Neither Daboll nor Saleh has had to fire a coordinator yet. Campbell already had to fire one and scapegoated Aubrey Pleasant in lieu of having to fire Aaron Glenn. I didn't hate the Campbell hire and I don't hate him as a coach now.  It's just frustrating when you see two teams that most analysts and experts had pegged to be competing for a top 5 pick along with us, instead in the playoff hunt midseason. It's also frustrating when you look at the offensive stats of a team, allow yourself to buy in as a result of that offensive production, and then have the rug pulled out from under you by a terrible defense and coaching mistakes.

I want the Lions to win on Sunday so me and other fans can shut up about the Giants and Daboll. Then, I want to go and beat the Jets so we can all shut up about the Jets and Saleh. I want them to win because I'd like to see them make the back half of this season interesting and maybe make a shot at the wildcard playoff spot. When you lose to a coach that is having more success than your guy and someone that people (myself or otherwise) wanted in Detroit, it just makes it that much harder and more frustrating. It also brings out all the second guessing and finger pointing, see, we should have hired "Coach X" over our guy.

The score was deceiving in the Dallas game. That was a one score game late until Goff threw that untimely interception.

The margins are razor thin in this league. Lets look at the Lions losses...

Right there with Philly, make one final stop and they probably win that game based on well their offense was playing

Vikings - The Lions controlled the majority of the game. Their kicker sucked, the Vikings kicker didn't

Seahawks - Just like the Philly game. Shootout but just couldn't make that final stop to get the ball back. 

Patriots - Complete disaster but a one off as it turns out

Cowboys - As I mentioned before, this was a 10-6 game late then the wheels came off. Lions were missing all their offensive weapons in this game, it was a minor miracle that they even had a shot in the 4th

Dolphins - Similar to the Eagles and Seahawks games. Defense optional game but they were right there at the end, just couldn't get that final stop

The Lions have been right there in every game but one.

Lets look at the Giants wins...

Titans - The Titans had control a lot of this game. Credit to the Giants for coming back but the Titans missed a very makeable FG at the end

Panthers - Late FG to eek one out against a bad team

Bears- Grinded out a win against a Fields who isn't nearly the player he is now

Packers - Looked like a good win at the time but a close win against what turns out to be a mediocre Packers team

Ravens - Good win but a fortunate win. I watched this game, the Ravens controlled large portions of it and gave it away pretty much. Good win though no doubt.

Jaguars - Eeked out a win against the Jags

Texans - Grinded out a win against the worst team in the league at home

I'm not saying that the Lions are as good as the Giants and the Giants deserve credit for making the plays in crunch time that the Lions didn't but the margin between the teams isn't nearly as big as the record would indicate. With that said, I do think the Lions will be in tough this week because it's a bad matchup for them in terms of playing a team that runs, runs and runs some more.

[RedRamage]

59 minutes ago, NYLion said:

With that said, I do think the Lions will be in tough this week because it's a bad matchup for them in terms of playing a team that runs, runs and runs some more.

I don't know that the Lions are necessarily bad against the run.  Now, they aren't great, but I don't know that they are bad against standard running teams.  Now, if the QB is a good running QB, then the Lions have serious problems.  But outside of that they are just on the bad side but not horrendously bad.

Here's the yardage for the games not including Philly and Chicago:

Wash: 88
Minn: 123
Seattle: 235
NE: 176
Dallas: 139
Miami: 107
GB: 106

That's a total of 974 yards or 139 yards per game.  If we multiple that by 9 games we get 1251 yards, which would put us 9th worst in yardage given up per game.  Yeah, I know I'm arguing that they only kinda suck instead of totally suck against the run, but I'm not as worried about a conventional running NFL team.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

21 hours ago, Jason_R said:

Position coach was not implementing the game plan and the team was suffering as a result so he got fired and his unit instantly performed better = “scapegoating”? 

Hmmm… 🤔

When the offense was struggling as a unit last year they didn't fire the WR coach or RB coach, they fired the OC Anthony Lynn. Let's be honest, we have struggled at every facet of defense this season outside of Hutch, Rodrigo, and Okudah, not just the secondary. Our front 7 has struggled sans Hutch and we have struggled against the run. We're bottom five in the league in sacks and QB pressures. Our LBs sans Rodrigo have looked terrible and out of place in coverage. And yes, our secondary has struggled, which can fall at Aubrey Pleasant's feet. But the remainder of our defensive struggles do not fall at Pleasant's feet, they fall at Glenn's. Does Pleasant not get any credit though for turning around the career of Jeff Okudah? I guess not.

At the time Pleasant was fired the Lions had a 28.8 percent blitz rate at that point of the season. And yet, were still bottom five in sacks and pressures. How's that on Aubrey when Glenn's blitz packages weren't getting home?

Let's be honest though, they couldn't fire Glenn because if they did, that would be another significant strike on Campbell having to fire both of his coordinators he hired. So even though we struggled as an entire defensive unit, someone had to pay the price and it was Pleasant and not Glenn.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Mr.TaterSalad

[Mr.TaterSalad]

19 hours ago, buddha said:

i dont think there is a coach in the state of michigan that tater hasnt wanted to fire at some point.

Did I say I wanted Campbell fired?

[Motown Bombers]

Now we're into the conspiracy portion of the Campbell derangement. 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

Two things can potentially be true at the same time. Aaron Glenn shouldn't be fired yet and a given person doesn't want him fired, while still thinking that Pleasant was ultimately the fall guy instead of Glenn.

[buddha]

1 hour ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Did I say I wanted Campbell fired?

come on!  you know you want to.

 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

come on!  you know you want to.

 

Nope, not yet. The only thing that will get me to call for his firing is if this season goes off the rails and he reverts back to his worst tendencies. If guys regress or stop improving and this team loses 7 straight or 6 of 7 to close out the season then we're back in hot seat territory.

Was I frustrated last week when it looked like the Bears game was getting out of hand? Hell yes, as most everyone here was. Did I overreact when it looked like the Bears were about to run away with it after going up 24-10. Yeah, maybe. But his team didn't quit and battled back to tie and win it in the end. Props to Campbell for keeping his guys in it.

[Motown Bombers]

Campbell said the secondary was executing the game plan and they were missing assignments. He fired Pleasant and the secondary immediately started playing better.

[Motown Bombers]

 

[RandyMarsh]

25 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

 

It's a rare sight these days to see a Detroit team on a "in the hunt" playoff graphic over half way through the season. The Pistons were the 8 seed a few years ago so I guess you probably have to go back to then. 

[buddha]

over 80% of the teams in the nfc are "in the hunt."

[MichiganCardinal]

Pretty sure the producers wanted the Rams in the graphic and couldn’t put the Rams in and not the Lions.

[Jason_R]

14 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

When the offense was struggling as a unit last year they didn't fire the WR coach or RB coach, they fired the OC Anthony Lynn. Let's be honest, we have struggled at every facet of defense this season outside of Hutch, Rodrigo, and Okudah, not just the secondary. Our front 7 has struggled sans Hutch and we have struggled against the run. We're bottom five in the league in sacks and QB pressures. Our LBs sans Rodrigo have looked terrible and out of place in coverage. And yes, our secondary has struggled, which can fall at Aubrey Pleasant's feet. But the remainder of our defensive struggles do not fall at Pleasant's feet, they fall at Glenn's. Does Pleasant not get any credit though for turning around the career of Jeff Okudah? I guess not.

At the time Pleasant was fired the Lions had a 28.8 percent blitz rate at that point of the season. And yet, were still bottom five in sacks and pressures. How's that on Aubrey when Glenn's blitz packages weren't getting home?

Let's be honest though, they couldn't fire Glenn because if they did, that would be another significant strike on Campbell having to fire both of his coordinators he hired. So even though we struggled as an entire defensive unit, someone had to pay the price and it was Pleasant and not Glenn.

So you're saying you want Lynn back? 😉

[Motor City Sonics]

If you want to see how good Hutch is, you need to put another top level DE out there to free him up more.  I see Paschal as a rotational guy, and he's been decent so far.   They have to find a Snacks Harrison in the middle.   Next draft with those top 5 picks.........CB, S, LB, LB, DE/DT.   Good running backs can be found later in the draft.   RB is a rotation-type position now, anyway.    QB?   Who says they have to replace Goff.  He's certainly up and down, but generally he's not the issue.  Why do people feel they need to draft a QB?   There will likely be some decent ones available.     Just say no on Carson "Poison" Wentz.  

[Mr.TaterSalad]

58 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

So you're saying you want Lynn back? 😉

Not at all lol. It's merely the point that the entire defense, not just the secondary was playing poorly and not executing.