Detroit Lions Offseason Thread 2023

[Motown Bombers]

10 minutes ago, buddha said:

what point was that?  that he got less productive after the fourth greatest season by qbr in nfl history?  i agree.  

i dont disagree with a lot of what randy or you or anyone else criticizing lamar have said.  he has been injured.  he has been less productive.  his history is worrisome.

but he's still been more productive than jared goff.  which isnt a sleight to goff!  goff has had some really good seasons, including last season.  but he's just not as good as jackson because he doesnt have the abilities jackson does.

again, no sleight to goff.  you dont have to be a mobile qb to win in this league.  it just helps, that's all.

In what way was Lamar Jackson more productive than Jared Goff last year?

[buddha]

1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said:

In what way was Lamar Jackson more productive than Jared Goff last year?

he wasnt.  he was injured.

over his career he has been more productive than jared goff.

age 21: lamar was a rookie going 9-1 as a starter.  goff was in college.

age 22: lamar had the 4th greatest season in nfl history.  goff was a terrible rookie.

age 23: lamar had a 67.4 qbr.  goff had his second best season as a ram with 55 qbr.  in fairness, goff had a slightly higher qb rating.

age 24: lamar was injured and had his worst season.  50.7 qbr.  87 rating.  goff had his best season with a 63 qbr and a 100 rating.

age 25: lamar is injured again.  has a 59 qbr and an 89 rating.  still better than goff's 50 qbr and 86 rating.

for their age levels, jackson has been better every single season except one.  ergo, i think he's been more productive.  

your mileage almost certainly varies.

[Motown Bombers]

4 minutes ago, buddha said:

he wasnt.  he was injured.

over his career he has been more productive than jared goff.

age 21: lamar was a rookie going 9-1 as a starter.  goff was in college.

age 22: lamar had the 4th greatest season in nfl history.  goff was a terrible rookie.

age 23: lamar had a 67.4 qbr.  goff had his second best season as a ram with 55 qbr.  in fairness, goff had a slightly higher qb rating.

age 24: lamar was injured and had his worst season.  50.7 qbr.  87 rating.  goff had his best season with a 63 qbr and a 100 rating.

age 25: lamar is injured again.  has a 59 qbr and an 89 rating.  still better than goff's 50 qbr and 86 rating.

for their age levels, jackson has been better every single season except one.  ergo, i think he's been more productive.  

your mileage almost certainly varies.

Oh so you're saying in 2022 Jackson was not better than Goff despite you're proclamation that Jackson was one of the best QBs in the league? And before you get to, he was hurt, on a per game basis, Goff averaged more combined yards than Jackson, more TDs than Jackson, more 1st downs than Jackson, and was a more accurate and efficient passer than Jackson.  I also noticed you bring up Jackson's record at age 21 but ignore Goff playing in a Super Bowl at age 24. 

Have to hand it to you, that was some incredible goal post moving. 

[MichiganCardinal]

I’d be shocked if Jamo is the only one who violated this rule, let alone didn’t know it.

[Motown Bombers]

4 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I’d be shocked if Jamo is the only one who violated this rule, let alone didn’t know it.

I wonder if they can prove he was inside the hotel? What if he made the bet outside on the street using the hotel wifi? Is the entire hotel considered the team hotel? Even the lobby?

[NYLion]

2 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

Jackson has averaged more carries than Swift who is an actual running back. Jackson is an old 26 whose had a couple of leg injuries now. You wouldn't call a 26 year old running back with an injury history and 5 years in the league as having upside. As Jackson's rushing yards have decreased, his passing has gotten worse. He's going to end up being a pocket passer at some point and he hasn't proven he's a great pocket passer. He's a better version of Cam Newton.

It's just weird how Goff just always ends up with these great coaches. Of course the offense tailormade for Goff. It should be tailormade for you QB. I wouldn't expect Jackson to come here and run the same offense as Goff. 

The injuries are a concern of course but he's still young and played at an MVP level for a few years. 

FTR, I take Goff and his current salary over Lamar and his new salary without hesitation especially in this offense the way the Lions are being built but if you look at them in a vacuum purely from an upside/impact standpoint, I can't imagine many taking Goff over Jackson.

[Hongbit]

4 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

You're free to leave if it's so bad for you. 

I don’t want to leave.  I want you to stop beating the same dead horse about Goff.  We’re going on 3 years already.  

Aren’t you getting a little bit tired of it, too?

 

[MichiganCardinal]

2 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

I wonder if they can prove he was inside the hotel? What if he made the bet outside on the street using the hotel wifi? Is the entire hotel considered the team hotel? Even the lobby?

These are the kinds of things you’d think the NFLPA would be all over, but they’ve been radio silent. It’s bizarre.

[Motown Bombers]

37 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

I don’t want to leave.  I want you to stop beating the same dead horse about Goff.  We’re going on 3 years already.  

Aren’t you getting a little bit tired of it, too?

 

How dare we discuss the starting QB of the Detroit Lions in the Detroit Lions forum. Nothing else was being discussed and people whined it was fluff when I posted observations of OTA's. 

Anyways, I found the solution to your problem:

Edited June 8, 2023 by Motown Bombers

[Motown Bombers]

34 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

These are the kinds of things you’d think the NFLPA would be all over, but they’ve been radio silent. It’s bizarre.

I would imagine they can get the security video of the hotel to verify Williams was in the hotel at the time the bets were placed. I'm wondering if he had more bets on Lions property? It seems like if it were just the one time at the hotel the NFLPA would be filing grievances. 

[Motown Bombers]

10 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

How dare we discuss the starting QB of the Detroit Lions in the Detroit Lions forum. Nothing else was being discussed and people whined it was fluff when I posted observations of OTA's. 

Anyways, I found the solution to your problem:

It should also be noted I wasn't the one who brought up Goff's PFF ranking. I posted Campbell's comments about Goff being better than he was on the Rams since I took that as more throwing shade at McVay than anything about Goff. 

[MichiganCardinal]

1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

I would imagine they can get the security video of the hotel to verify Williams was in the hotel at the time the bets were placed. I'm wondering if he had more bets on Lions property? It seems like if it were just the one time at the hotel the NFLPA would be filing grievances. 

Eh, maybe if they knew the day of. If they learned about it 3-6 months later, those videos were probably long gone. There is also the issue that the NFL doesn't have any real power to make a private corporation like a hotel hand over video.... though I'm sure they have a way of per$ua$ion that goes a long way.

In any event, the failure of the NFLPA to really do anything is just weird.

[sagnam]

8 hours ago, Hongbit said:

The last couple of months have been so  nice.   Alas, here we are again.  

Permanent hype for whoever is currently a Lion.  It’s wild.

[sagnam]

Just imagine the posts if the Lions traded for Jeff Okudah

[holygoat]

5 hours ago, NYLion said:

The injuries are a concern of course but he's still young and played at an MVP level for a few years. 

Lamar played at an MVP level for a few years? Which years other than 2019?

[holygoat]

7 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I’d be shocked if Jamo is the only one who violated this rule, let alone didn’t know it.

Yeah, the rule seemed ridiculous from the start, but this makes it even more so.

[Motown Bombers]

5 hours ago, sagnam said:

Permanent hype for whoever is currently a Lion.  It’s wild.

 

4 hours ago, sagnam said:

Just imagine the posts if the Lions traded for Jeff Okudah

Yeah because there has been permanent hype for players the Lions have used late round picks to acquire such as Trinity Benson and Michael Brockers. 

[RandyMarsh]

I don't get why people get so upset about us hyping up Lions players anyway. The franchise has been dead in the water for 60 years and we had little to cheer for, we're finally getting some excitement and hope around here even from national folks then when we try to share that excitement some people want to play Debbie Downer or get upset by it.

I mean we're long suffering fans God forbid can't we get excited about our players and team on a sports message board without being ridiculed for it. I could see if people were making completely outlandish claims like Goff being on par with Mahomes or the Lions being the best team in the league or even conference but I haven't seen any of that.

From what I see is just a few of us bringing up positive stories about the team and players, sure some may be puff pieces but like I said can't we just bask in the excitement of this offseason after decades of being miserable?

Edited June 8, 2023 by RandyMarsh

[Hongbit]

33 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I don't get why people get so upset about us hyping up Lions players anyway. The franchise has been dead in the water for 60 years and we had little to cheer for, we're finally getting some excitement and hope around here even from national folks then when we try to share that excitement some people want to play Debbie Downer or get upset by it.

I mean we're long suffering fans God forbid can't we get excited about our players and team on a sports message board without being ridiculed for it. I could see if people were making completely outlandish claims like Goff being on par with Mahomes or the Lions being the best team in the league or even conference but I haven't seen any of that.

From what I see is just a few of us bringing up positive stories about the team and players, sure some may be puff pieces but like I said can't we just bask in the excitement of this offseason after decades of being miserable?

This is not my issue at all.  MB thinks Stafford was overrated and overhyped and hated that he asked out of Detroit.   This led into his claim that Goff would be just as good.  Now it’s morphed into constant defense of Goff and continued comparisons to Stafford and every other QB.  

Look, it was a rocky first 20 games but it’s starting to maybe look like MB was right about Goff.   He should take some props but it’s become almost insufferable.  We’re 3 years in and he still takes almost every chance to rehash the same points over and over again about Goff and Stafford.  It’s tiring.

I am also not a fan of the abrasive tantrums that get thrown if someone wants to share a different opinion.  He’s come unhinged and called people pathetic liars and various other names multiple times in the past. 

Sure, I can put him on ignore but I actually do appreciate his point of view and think he has some good things to say about the Lions and other topics.  I would like for him to just tone it down or pick his spots better with the Goff vs. Stafford debate.  

[Motown Bombers]

28 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

This is not my issue at all.  MB thinks Stafford was overrated and overhyped and hated that he asked out of Detroit.   This led into his claim that Goff would be just as good.  Now it’s morphed into constant defense of Goff and continued comparisons to Stafford and every other QB.  

Look, it was a rocky first 20 games but it’s starting to maybe look like MB was right about Goff.   He should take some props but it’s become almost insufferable.  We’re 3 years in and he still takes almost every chance to rehash the same points over and over again about Goff and Stafford.  It’s tiring.

I am also not a fan of the abrasive tantrums that get thrown if someone wants to share a different opinion.  He’s come unhinged and called people pathetic liars and various other names multiple times in the past. 

Sure, I can put him on ignore but I actually do appreciate his point of view and think he has some good things to say about the Lions and other topics.  I would like for him to just tone it down or pick his spots better with the Goff vs. Stafford debate.  

I never said Stafford was overrated and overhyped. I do think now Stafford at age 35, and an old 35 at that, is on the downside of his career.  I'm not sure how I can make this anymore clear, I would take a 28 year old Stafford over a 28 year old Goff. Again, I'm not sure how I can be anymore clear about this. I also think Goff is a good QB. It's possible to think both Stafford and Goff are good QBs. My comparisons of Goff and Stafford have been their career arches which are remarkably similar and why I believed Goff could regain his form of 2017-2018. However, given their age and recent injury history, I think the future looks better for Goff than Stafford. When age related decline happens, it happens quick. Look how quickly Matt Ryan is out of the league. That in no way, shape or form says Stafford is overrated and overhyped. I'm one of the ones who wanted Stafford to win a Super Bowl to prove the haters wrong.  

I posted a quote from Dan Campbell who said Goff is better than he was with the Rams. That to me seemed to be shade at McVay. McVay was even asked about that and responded but I didn't bother posting it because people like you would bitch about it like you are now. I did not bring up Goff's PFF rankings. I did not bring up Lamar Jackson. I also brought up observations from OTAs that people complained were puff pieces. You are more than welcome to bring up something else to discuss about the team since discussing the starting QB is such a chore for you. 

[Motown Bombers]

1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

I don't get why people get so upset about us hyping up Lions players anyway. The franchise has been dead in the water for 60 years and we had little to cheer for, we're finally getting some excitement and hope around here even from national folks then when we try to share that excitement some people want to play Debbie Downer or get upset by it.

I mean we're long suffering fans God forbid can't we get excited about our players and team on a sports message board without being ridiculed for it. I could see if people were making completely outlandish claims like Goff being on par with Mahomes or the Lions being the best team in the league or even conference but I haven't seen any of that.

From what I see is just a few of us bringing up positive stories about the team and players, sure some may be puff pieces but like I said can't we just bask in the excitement of this offseason after decades of being miserable?

We should post more same old Lions they'll never win as long as a Ford owns the team etc etc. 

[Hongbit]

27 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

We should post more same old Lions they'll never win as long as a Ford owns the team etc etc. 

This team is no longer owned by a Ford.  

It’s owned by a Hamp.  

[Mr.TaterSalad]

44 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

This team is no longer owned by a Ford.  

It’s owned by a Hamp.  

Actually it's hyphenated and that's why they are finding success now. If she simply went by Sheila Ford, Dan Campbell would be the new Rod Marinelli and Brad Holmes the new Martin Mayhew. However, thanks to her decision to hyphenate her name and include Hamp to make it Ford-Hamp, we're finally finding success. 

[djhutch]

On 6/7/2023 at 6:18 PM, MichiganCardinal said:

I’d be shocked if Jamo is the only one who violated this rule, let alone didn’t know it.

What on earth do the player's pay union dues for?  I can't believe they are not challenging this

[sagnam]

Any issue that affects a small number of the bottom tier of players will never be addressed by the union. They only care about the big ticket players. Money talks.