NYLion Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said: I guess than the issue with Tua is they knock Goff for having a strong supporting cast so shouldn't Tua be knocked as well? What about Tua only being successful with McDaniels? Goff gets knocked for Ben Johnson after Goff was only suppose to be successful because of McVay. Geno Smith has never been this successful at any point in his career. He was a failed starter who turned journeyman QB and then at 32 just found it? Smith also started to decline the 2nd half last year. Carr gets run out of Vegas after struggling with alleged offensive guru Josh McDaniel the same way Goff got ran out of LA. Carr has generally been a top 8-12 QB or so so I guess they're banking on him rediscovering his form. I don't think it matters what Geno did 2+ years ago, he was very good last year and Seattle has just as many weapons as anybody in the league, similar to Tua, so I get why folks think that they'll put up big numbers. Goff is working with less than those guys with Jamo out and the Lions are a strong running team so I can sort of get the "mid" ranking even if I don't agree. I think all these guys in the 9-16 range are fairly interchangeable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said: Yeah after looking at his numbers the past couple years I may have jumped the gun putting him in tier two. He hasnt really been elite in a few years which is a surprise to me, for some reason I thought he has been better. lamar jackson had one of the greatest seasons in nfl history. jared goff has never been close to as good as peak lamar jackson. the question for lamar is health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, buddha said: lamar jackson had one of the greatest seasons in nfl history. jared goff has never been close to as good as peak lamar jackson. the question for lamar is health. That's true but even if it's just health you still have to factor that in and as I mentioned before he has slowly gotten less productive each season since that MVP season. Also no QB outside of Mahomes or Rodgers has had as good of season as that MVP Lamar season so should we just anoint Lamar the 2nd or 3rd best QB in football cause he put up that unbelievable season 4 years ago? Edited June 7, 2023 by RandyMarsh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 4 minutes ago, buddha said: lamar jackson had one of the greatest seasons in nfl history. jared goff has never been close to as good as peak lamar jackson. the question for lamar is health. Weird how Lamar Jackson can continue to live on that 2019 season now 4 years ago and Goff can't live off his 2018 season. The thing is, on a per game basis last year, Goff was more productive. He accounted for more yards and TDs and was a more efficient passer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: That's true but even if it's just health you still have to factor that in and as I mentioned before he has slowly gotten less productive each season since that MVP season. Also no QB outside of Mahomes or Rodgers has had as good of season as that MVP Lamar season so should we just anoint Lamar the 2nd or 3rd best QB in football cause he put up that unbelievable season? some of what you would call lamar's less productive seasons are on par with goff's best seasons. lamar qbr: 42.6 rookie year 83 (one of the greatest seasons in nfl history) 67 50 59 goff: 18, 55, 63, 50, 50, 39, 61 again, the issue with lamar is health, not talent. when healthy, he is one of the best qbs in the nfl. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Weird how Lamar Jackson can continue to live on that 2019 season now 4 years ago and Goff can't live off his 2018 season. The thing is, on a per game basis last year, Goff was more productive. He accounted for more yards and TDs and was a more efficient passer. if the lions traded for lamar jackson you'd reverse every position you took in this thread, just like you did when they traded matt stafford. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 Just now, buddha said: if the lions traded for lamar jackson you'd reverse every position you took in this thread, just like you did when they traded matt stafford. Incorrect and I wish the previous forum still existed. For the record, I was in the camp of keeping Stafford until he asked for a trade. When it was first reported that Stafford was interested in the Rams, I was the first one on this forum that floated the idea to trade Stafford for Goff and a 1st round pick. Holmes did one better and got a 2nd 1st round pick. I was in favor of trading for Goff before the trade happened. I did not reverse my position on the Stafford for Goff trade and you're just lying at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 I know I was cautiously optimistic when we got Goff which is one of the reasons why I didn't advocate drafting a QB in 2021. My stance was that Goff wasn't that far removed from being viewed as 1 of the best young QBs in football, much like how Burrow and Herbert are viewed now and maybe a change of scenery/coaching could help bring him back to that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 I didn't buy that a former #1 overall pick who went to multiple Pro Bowls, Super Bowl and was considered a franchise QB suddenly became a pumpkin at age 26. It happened to Wentz so it's certainly possible but the Lions got multiple 1st round picks in case he did go Carson Wentz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 Jackson averaged 250 yards per game both rushing and passing. Goff averaged 265. Jackson averaged 1.6 TDs per game rushing and passing. Goff 1.7, but keep in mind Williams got a lot of carries at the 1 yard line that took TDs away from Goff. Goff was more accurate and more efficient than Jackson and Goff is able to finish seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 40 minutes ago, buddha said: some of what you would call lamar's less productive seasons are on par with goff's best seasons. lamar qbr: 42.6 rookie year 83 (one of the greatest seasons in nfl history) 67 50 59 goff: 18, 55, 63, 50, 50, 39, 61 again, the issue with lamar is health, not talent. when healthy, he is one of the best qbs in the nfl. Lamar hasn't been one of the best QBs in the NFL since 2020. He had two peak years and two duds quite frankly and is now becoming injury prone. However, if all else is fairly equal, I don't think any GM would take Goff over him simply because he's far more impactful when he's at his best plus he has age on his side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 But Jackson hasn't been at his best in 4 years now and he's only two years younger than Goff although that's only one year older than our newly drafted QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 11 minutes ago, NYLion said: Lamar hasn't been one of the best QBs in the NFL since 2020. He had two peak years and two duds quite frankly and is now becoming injury prone. However, if all else is fairly equal, I don't think any GM would take Goff over him simply because he's far more impactful when he's at his best plus he has age on his side. correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 What is more impactful in running for 10 yards vs throwing a 10 yard pass to St Brown? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 45 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Incorrect and I wish the previous forum still existed. For the record, I was in the camp of keeping Stafford until he asked for a trade. When it was first reported that Stafford was interested in the Rams, I was the first one on this forum that floated the idea to trade Stafford for Goff and a 1st round pick. Holmes did one better and got a 2nd 1st round pick. I was in favor of trading for Goff before the trade happened. I did not reverse my position on the Stafford for Goff trade and you're just lying at this point. im not lying. you flip flop all the time. ask hendon hooker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said: What is more impactful in running for 10 yards vs throwing a 10 yard pass to St Brown? being able to do both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said: What is more impactful in running for 10 yards vs throwing a 10 yard pass to St Brown? I thought that Jackson, due to his ability to scramble, would pick up more first downs per game but it turns out Goff averages 13.5 through the air and Jackson averages 12.5 combined rushing and passing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 1 minute ago, buddha said: im not lying. you flip flop all the time. ask hendon hooker. What about Hendon Hooker? I still don't like the pick and I didn't like it before the draft. I think he is a decent prospect and I like accurate pocket passers and who do have a little mobility but he's 25 and injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, buddha said: being able to do both. Being able to do both hasn't resulted in Jackson producing more yards, TDs, or 1st downs per game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 The last couple of months have been so nice. Alas, here we are again. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, Hongbit said: The last couple of months have been so nice. Alas, here we are again. You're free to leave if it's so bad for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said: But Jackson hasn't been at his best in 4 years now and he's only two years younger than Goff although that's only one year older than our newly drafted QB. It doesn't matter. He's a 26 year old with an elite skillset that has an MVP to his credit, his upside is much higher. Unless a team has a system that is tailor made for a QB like Goff (like the Lions for example), I can't see any team picking Goff over Lamar if contracts are equal. Now Lamar for max money vs. Goff at $35-$40m is a different conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 2 hours ago, buddha said: some of what you would call lamar's less productive seasons are on par with goff's best seasons. lamar qbr: 42.6 rookie year 83 (one of the greatest seasons in nfl history) 67 50 59 goff: 18, 55, 63, 50, 50, 39, 61 again, the issue with lamar is health, not talent. when healthy, he is one of the best qbs in the nfl. This tells me that outside of Lamar's spectacular ONE season, his best QBR's were: 67, 59, 50... And Goff's were 63, 61, 55, 50, 50... Randy's point remains valid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 18 minutes ago, NYLion said: It doesn't matter. He's a 26 year old with an elite skillset that has an MVP to his credit, his upside is much higher. Unless a team has a system that is tailor made for a QB like Goff (like the Lions for example), I can't see any team picking Goff over Lamar if contracts are equal. Now Lamar for max money vs. Goff at $35-$40m is a different conversation. Jackson has averaged more carries than Swift who is an actual running back. Jackson is an old 26 whose had a couple of leg injuries now. You wouldn't call a 26 year old running back with an injury history and 5 years in the league as having upside. As Jackson's rushing yards have decreased, his passing has gotten worse. He's going to end up being a pocket passer at some point and he hasn't proven he's a great pocket passer. He's a better version of Cam Newton. It's just weird how Goff just always ends up with these great coaches. Of course the offense tailormade for Goff. It should be tailormade for you QB. I wouldn't expect Jackson to come here and run the same offense as Goff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 28 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: This tells me that outside of Lamar's spectacular ONE season, his best QBR's were: 67, 59, 50... And Goff's were 63, 61, 55, 50, 50... Randy's point remains valid. what point was that? that he got less productive after the fourth greatest season by qbr in nfl history? i agree. i dont disagree with a lot of what randy or you or anyone else criticizing lamar have said. he has been injured. he has been less productive. his history is worrisome. but he's still been more productive than jared goff. which isnt a sleight to goff! goff has had some really good seasons, including last season. but he's just not as good as jackson because he doesnt have the abilities jackson does. again, no sleight to goff. you dont have to be a mobile qb to win in this league. it just helps, that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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