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2021-22 Tigers Hot Stove League


RatkoVarda

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39 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I really doubt Kreidler is going to be a significant part of their future or that he is going to enter into their thinking process this winter.  If they don't sign a shortstop, it will be because other teams outbid them.  

My gosh, if they don't sign a SS or another significant bat, and they only go for an average-ish SP, I wouldn't even expect a winning season in 2022.....maybe if Tork and Greene play full time and hit really well, that might get them to 500 or better, but I'm not expecting a winning season unless they get several plus FAs.   

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4 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I really doubt Kreidler is going to be a significant part of their future or that he is going to enter into their thinking process this winter.  If they don't sign a shortstop, it will be because other teams outbid them.  

Yes he isn't a key building block.  They need to find someone to play every day with a decent glove and mediocre bat, not the Castros and Goodrum and Short.  We can't deal with that again.

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I'm looking for a high end starter on a short term deal. Obviously there are risks on guys returning from TJ... but those are the 1st two options I would consider... and then be hunting for 30's year old guys that are still pitching at a high level but could possibly be had on a 1/2/3-year deal (no consideration for anything over 3 years)... Candidates? At the top of my list:

Verlander - 1 year prove-it

Syndergaard - 1 year prove-it 

Alex Wood - can he be had on a short-term deal? 2 or 3 years?

Collin McHugh - can he be had on a short-term deal? 2 or 3 years?

Robbie Ray - is probably going to get himself a 5 or 6 year deal for big money, so I think he's out of consideration...

But I think those would be the top 5 guys on my list...

Edited by 1984Echoes
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8 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

Miley. '22 $10M club option with $1M buyout. If the Reds are dumb enough to not want to pay him next season they save the $1M moving him to a team willing to pickup up the main option. It's probably unlikely even the Reds would dump a 14 game winner over $10M  but we can always hope!

Of course if Castellanos opts out they will save a chunk there.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/cincinnati-reds/wade-miley-8797/

Interesting idea.

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18 hours ago, KL2 said:

On Posey, I mean I get it but I don get it, why he's this sure fire first ballot hall of famer. His counting numbers are bad, even for a catcher. 158 homers, 729 RBI, 1500 hits. One year with an OPS above .900. 

Compare that to say...Bill Freehan. 200 homers, 758 RBI and 1591 hits. and 0 years with an OPS above .900. 

Now sure Freehan played in some 400 odd games more, but its just an example to show that Posey's counting offensive stats are pretty pedestrian. (and let's not forget freehan's prime years were dead ball era 2 of 1968).

They aren't the end all be all, and i know what the saber and defense shows, but its part of the pie and I don't quite get this thought that he should get 99.72 percent of hall of fame votes on fthe first try. 

I think both Freehan and Posey have summary numbers in the primes of their respective careers to be inducted.  We can evaluate this is non players and run numbers through spreadsheets and models and whatnot to take care of the numerical side of the argument.  Sure, Posey is retiring early.  But he’s not the first player to have his playing career by choice or by other circumstance, and he wouldn’t be the first hall of fame player either.

I also think they clearly had the respect of the leagues in which they played to be voted into the all star games much often than not.  You want to talk about game respecting game and actual players/managers determining who the better players are, my guess is Freehan didn’t win fan votes for all 11 appearances.  Toss in gold gloves and MVP votes.  Falling off of the ballot in his first year of eligibility with only 2 votes seems criminal.

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23 minutes ago, casimir said:

I think both Freehan and Posey have summary numbers in the primes of their respective careers to be inducted.  We can evaluate this is non players and run numbers through spreadsheets and models and whatnot to take care of the numerical side of the argument.  Sure, Posey is retiring early.  But he’s not the first player to have his playing career by choice or by other circumstance, and he wouldn’t be the first hall of fame player either.

I also think they clearly had the respect of the leagues in which they played to be voted into the all star games much often than not.  You want to talk about game respecting game and actual players/managers determining who the better players are, my guess is Freehan didn’t win fan votes for all 11 appearances.  Toss in gold gloves and MVP votes.  Falling off of the ballot in his first year of eligibility with only 2 votes seems criminal.

Apparently Posey has had physical issues maintaining his play in the second halves of seasons and one SF writer speculated that he believes he only got through the 2nd half of this one because of the short season last year and he didn't want to crash next year. He also has young twins at home. Plus if he has made a big pot of money.....

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2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Apparently Posey has had physical issues maintaining his play in the second halves of seasons and one SF writer speculated that he believes he only got through the 2nd half of this one because of the short season last year and he didn't want to crash next year. He also has young twins at home. Plus if he has made a big pot of money.....

He took last season off.  Maybe with the young family, that opened his eyes.  Play out this season and see how he feels afterwards.  Maybe it hit him at some point during this year, maybe that was the plan all along before this season?  Hey, good for him however he came to the decision.

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9 hours ago, sabretooth said:

He's not.  Or, if he is, than we are doomed.

Didn't they move him up to Toledo at the same time as Tork and Greene? What if he tears up AAA pitching next season and we're stuck paying someone long term, for big bucks? It really wouldn't surprise me if the Tigers went after someone on a one year deal.

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24 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Didn't they move him up to Toledo at the same time as Tork and Greene? What if he tears up AAA pitching next season and we're stuck paying someone long term, for big bucks? It really wouldn't surprise me if the Tigers went after someone on a one year deal.

If they get a great shortstop and Kreidler unexpectedly turns out to be good, that would be a nice problem to have. I haven't heard any of the scouting types I follow get excited about Kreidler. That doesn't mean he can't be good, but I really doubt the Tigers are counting on him.   It's just people reacting to his stats and even his stats are not that impressive.  Someone with a 29% k rate in AAA is likely to have trouble in the majors.  

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8 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

If they get a great shortstop and Kreidler unexpectedly turns out to be good, that would be a nice problem to have. I haven't heard any of the scouting types I follow get excited about Kreidler. That doesn't mean he can't be good, but I really doubt the Tigers are counting on him.   It's just people reacting to his stats and even his stats are not that impressive.  Someone with a 29% k rate in AAA is likely to have trouble in the majors.  

Sizemore Syndrome. 

 

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9 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

ah - right - he didn't play at all. Probably didn't help his outlook to get bounced out of the playoffs after having won 107 either!

Well, he’s already got three rings.  Winning 107 to snuff out the rivals at 106 had to have been enjoyable, especially when considering nobody expected them to be a .500 club.

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8 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

If they get a great shortstop and Kreidler unexpectedly turns out to be good, that would be a nice problem to have. I haven't heard any of the scouting types I follow get excited about Kreidler. That doesn't mean he can't be good, but I really doubt the Tigers are counting on him.   It's just people reacting to his stats and even his stats are not that impressive.  Someone with a 29% k rate in AAA is likely to have trouble in the majors.  

Yes, but you have to allow for his rapid ascension in what was basically his first full season of pro ball. You have to expect some struggle and adjustments from a player whose previous experience was short season ball, and give him credit for holding his own after being so aggressively challenged.

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1 hour ago, Longgone said:

Yes, but you have to allow for his rapid ascension in what was basically his first full season of pro ball. You have to expect some struggle and adjustments from a player whose previous experience was short season ball, and give him credit for holding his own after being so aggressively challenged.

No you don't.

I mean, you can... but that doesn't mean the late surge is anything more than a hot streak.

Edited by Edman85
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I think I'd rather wait a bit on Kreidler's ascendency to MLB.  One thing that pops out at me is his BB/SO ratio.  Its quite a mix among the different levels of minors that he has played.  20/61 in 257 PAs at A, 32/119 in 388 PAs at AA, and 24/39 in 162 PAs at AAA.  I'm not quite sure what to make of it.

image.png.4137bf3701cd0b78f6182e11a0a54573.png

What happened with his SOs in Erie?  What happened with his BBs in Toledo?

I think the other thing that sticks out to me is that he's got somewhat similar college and pro ball numbers (AVG/OBP/SLG for sure).  I don't know at all, but I would assume there would be some sort of regression going from college to the minors.  

image.thumb.png.e67f9630fb780626f3dba8fe4f1eccfe.png

Look, I think he's intriguing, but I want to see more out of him in Toledo.

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38 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

No you don't.

I mean, you can... but that doesn't mean the late surge is anything more than a hot streak.

FWIW, he showed some progression. From his MiLB game log, which isn't always completely consistent - by month his K rates were:

May: 36% ( 108PA -AA)

June: 36% - 110 PA

July: 31%- 100PA

Aug: 25% - 109PA - part AAA 

Sept: 26%  99PA -AAA 

His walk rate also improved. At minimum it is a good sign that in 150PA he did not regress against AAA pitching. Just have to see what he does as the sample size increases.

Edited by gehringer_2
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1 hour ago, Longgone said:

Yes, but you have to allow for his rapid ascension in what was basically his first full season of pro ball. You have to expect some struggle and adjustments from a player whose previous experience was short season ball, and give him credit for holding his own after being so aggressively challenged.

No doubt, he is someone to watch but I still wouldn't pass over a rare group of free agent shortstops because of him.  

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11 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

If they get a great shortstop and Kreidler unexpectedly turns out to be good, that would be a nice problem to have. I haven't heard any of the scouting types I follow get excited about Kreidler. That doesn't mean he can't be good, but I really doubt the Tigers are counting on him.   It's just people reacting to his stats and even his stats are not that impressive.  Someone with a 29% k rate in AAA is likely to have trouble in the majors.  

If he carves out a career as a decent back up that's already a plus for us... anything more than that would be gravy...

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16 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

No doubt, he is someone to watch but I still wouldn't pass over a rare group of free agent shortstops because of him.  

No -- and after they sign a SS, given that Schoop can play 1st and Tork can play 3rd ( at least enough to give Candelario days off ) they will be able to find IF playing time for Kreidler if he continues to do well. And Cabrera will likely be down to 1 day a week at 1B at most.

 

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