Week Twelve: Green Bay Packers (4-6) @ Detroit Lions (8-2)

[Motown Bombers]

 

[Jason_R]

13 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

 

Good because Sorsdal is not ready for prime time. 

[Longgone]

41 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

Good because Sorsdal is not ready for prime time. 

He'd be fine on the right side. He has very little experience on the left and it should be expected that side will take some time.

[RandyMarsh]

Doesn't sound good that he will be back this year. Wasn't he a 1 year deal? If so I wonder if they will try to resign him, seems like Campbell and Co. like him and he's been a good culture fit so I don't see why not. 

[lordstanley]

2 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Doesn't sound good that he will be back this year. Wasn't he a 1 year deal? If so I wonder if they will try to resign him, seems like Campbell and Co. like him and he's been a good culture fit so I don't see why not. 

Every team has injuries, but man, the Lions' defense would look different with Houston, Mosely and CJ all making contributions.

[RandyMarsh]

33 minutes ago, lordstanley said:

Every team has injuries, but man, the Lions' defense would look different with Houston, Mosely and CJ all making contributions.

Yeah definitely, coming into the year you were expecting those 3 to be 3 of your top handful of defensive players so essentially having them all miss the entire season was a huge blow.

On another note, I hate to beat the dead horse but this just makes me question their lack of moves of at the deadline even more. I thought maybe they weren't as aggressive cause they figured that they would be getting guys like CJ and Houston back in December for the stretch run and playoffs so that would essentially be like adding two play makers on defense but with how Campbell has worded things in regards to both of them it sounds like atleast in his eyes he was never expecting them to be back this year. 

[sagnam]

Go get Shaquille Leonard

[Tigeraholic1]

[TP_Fan]

No Jones is certainly a plus.  No reason for this game to be close, should win by 2 scores. Last two home games have seen a lot of turnovers. Just secure the ball and get points.

I have no expectation left for the defense.  When they don’t give up a TD it seems like a fluke. They have regressed significantly since week 6. Week 7 til now they have 31st ranked defense, only the titans have been worse, and have shown no improvement.

Glenn still relies too much on man coverage when they can’t play man because of personnel. And in zone coverage guys don’t understand their assignments.  The front 4 can’t generate a pass rush outside hutch. Against mobile QBs they crash inside way too often and lose contain leaving the outside wide open. They have made zero adjustments against any of this.  Glenn isn’t good at his job, he is the Matt Canada of D coordinators.  Steelers fired Canada mid season even though they are 6-4, and their offense is better than 31st. Sticking with Glenn has been campbells biggest error. Fortunately he hasn’t made too many.  Unless Campbell starts have more influence on defensive play calling the lions will have a hard time winning any playoff games this year.  Would love to see some improvement. But 3 years in and it’s as bad as it’s ever been. 

[Motown Bombers]

2 minutes ago, TP_Fan said:

No Jones is certainly a plus.  No reason for this game to be close, should win by 2 scores. Last two home games have seen a lot of turnovers. Just secure the ball and get points.

I have no expectation left for the defense.  When they don’t give up a TD it seems like a fluke. They have regressed significantly since week 6. Week 7 til now they have 31st ranked defense, only the titans have been worse, and have shown no improvement.

Glenn still relies too much on man coverage when they can’t play man because of personnel. And in zone coverage guys don’t understand their assignments.  The front 4 can’t generate a pass rush outside hutch. Against mobile QBs they crash inside way too often and lose contain leaving the outside wide open. They have made zero adjustments against any of this.  Glenn isn’t good at his job, he is the Matt Canada of D coordinators.  Steelers fired Canada mid season even though they are 6-4, and their offense is better than 31st. Sticking with Glenn has been campbells biggest error. Fortunately he hasn’t made too many.  Unless Campbell starts have more influence on defensive play calling the lions will have a hard time winning any playoff games this year.  Would love to see some improvement. But 3 years in and it’s as bad as it’s ever been. 

You are literally giving me heartburn. 

[buddha]

i actually think the defense wasnt all that awful against the bears.  only 26 points allowed with 4 turnovers by the offense - some in plus territory - isnt that bad.

the lack of pass rush is still a concern.  jerry jacobs at corner is a continued concern.  jack campbell getting lost in coverage is still a concern.  but that is what it is.  that's a talent issue not a scheme issue.

they should beat the packers.  they actually really need to beat them given the vikings' upcoming schedule.

[number20]

I think the Lions are what they are at this point. Can't see much changing from here, except possibly gaining a couple of players off IR. As fans, just gotta roll with it. Rest of the season should be a fun ride

[Motown Bombers]

The Bears only averaged 4.7 yards per play. The issue was they ran 71 plays because the Lions turned the ball over 4 times. They also got 4 first downs off of penalties. Fields averaged 5.8 yards per carry. His season average was 5.2. They held him to his season average. He ran it a lot more than any other game this season. He only threw for 169 yards. 

[buddha]

fields hasnt played like that all season.  the bears finally did what they SHOULD do with fields: let. him. run.  if they keep doing that they will score points on other defenses too.

they sat him in the pocket for the first 5 or so games of the season and he looked awful.  cause he cant do it.  what he CAN do is run.  and he did it effectively against detroit.  this year and last year (in chicago, the game in detroit the bears quit).

[djhutch]

2 hours ago, sagnam said:

Go get Shaquille Leonard

I would imagine he's had too many injuries to warrant the price.  I think it would be fun to sign Dallin Leavitt & put him on the special teams against the Packers Thursday.

[RandyMarsh]

2 hours ago, buddha said:

i actually think the defense wasnt all that awful against the bears.  only 26 points allowed with 4 turnovers by the offense - some in plus territory - isnt that bad.

the lack of pass rush is still a concern.  jerry jacobs at corner is a continued concern.  jack campbell getting lost in coverage is still a concern.  but that is what it is.  that's a talent issue not a scheme issue.

they should beat the packers.  they actually really need to beat them given the vikings' upcoming schedule.

Yeah everybody complains about Glenn and I get it it's frustrating when you see teams carve you up and it's easier to blame the DC but considering the injuries and just overall talent level on the defense I don't think they have been THAT bad and I think you'd be hard pressed to find a DC that would be much better. 

I mean look at who Glenn has to work with, Hutch is a beast but even he isn't a Myles Garrett type outside of him you have McNeil who would start on most teams but that would prob be it on the d line. Anzalone has been solid this year but that has been offset by Campbell being one of the worst LBs in the league, hopefully that is just due to being a rookie.

In the secondary you have Sutton who is good but again it's not like he is a bonafide number 1, if he was we wouldn't have gotten him for what we paid. I love Branch but like Campbell he is still a rookie and prone to some lapses not to mention him probably not being 100%.

Add it all up and I just think it's unfair to expect that good of defense with the players they have. Maybe you can argue they should blitz more but then you have guys like Jacobs being left on an island. 

[KnoxP]

35 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Yeah everybody complains about Glenn and I get it it's frustrating when you see teams carve you up and it's easier to blame the DC but considering the injuries and just overall talent level on the defense I don't think they have been THAT bad and I think you'd be hard pressed to find a DC that would be much better. 

I mean look at who Glenn has to work with, Hutch is a beast but even he isn't a Myles Garrett type outside of him you have McNeil who would start on most teams but that would prob be it on the d line. Anzalone has been solid this year but that has been offset by Campbell being one of the worst LBs in the league, hopefully that is just due to being a rookie.

In the secondary you have Sutton who is good but again it's not like he is a bonafide number 1, if he was we wouldn't have gotten him for what we paid. I love Branch but like Campbell he is still a rookie and prone to some lapses not to mention him probably not being 100%.

Add it all up and I just think it's unfair to expect that good of defense with the players they have. Maybe you can argue they should blitz more but then you have guys like Jacobs being left on an island. 

Yea, that’s a good summary of my opinion. And having only Hutch creating pressure a mobile QB can escape, which means open space to scramble/run and/or db’s needing to cover extended time. Fast QB gonna run and good WR gonna eventually get open. Especially with a guy like Jacob’s and even with a better corner like Sutton. 

[Sports_Freak]

1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

Yeah everybody complains about Glenn and I get it it's frustrating when you see teams carve you up and it's easier to blame the DC but considering the injuries and just overall talent level on the defense I don't think they have been THAT bad and I think you'd be hard pressed to find a DC that would be much better. 

I mean look at who Glenn has to work with, Hutch is a beast but even he isn't a Myles Garrett type outside of him you have McNeil who would start on most teams but that would prob be it on the d line. Anzalone has been solid this year but that has been offset by Campbell being one of the worst LBs in the league, hopefully that is just due to being a rookie.

In the secondary you have Sutton who is good but again it's not like he is a bonafide number 1, if he was we wouldn't have gotten him for what we paid. I love Branch but like Campbell he is still a rookie and prone to some lapses not to mention him probably not being 100%.

Add it all up and I just think it's unfair to expect that good of defense with the players they have. Maybe you can argue they should blitz more but then you have guys like Jacobs being left on an island. 

Missed tackles and penalties need to be cleaned up. Especially 3rd down penalties. Coaching should be able to help there...

[Sports_Freak]

A safety for Denver, Kareem Jackson, has been suspended for 4 games. That 4th game is against the Lions.

 

[ben9753]

11 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

A safety for Denver, Kareem Jackson, has been suspended for 4 games. That 4th game is against the Lions.

 

He’ll appeal and it’ll get reduced to three. 

[RandyMarsh]

31 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Missed tackles and penalties need to be cleaned up. Especially 3rd down penalties. Coaching should be able to help there...

IDK maybe to some extent but these guys aren't youth or High School players that you have to teach the fundamentals to, they all have been playing this game prob for 20 or so years from the time they were kids, have gone through world class coaching at every level and quite frankly have been shown how to tackle correctly. At some point its up to them to execute things properly. 

As far as 3rd down penalties again they know the rules, but instinctively if you get beat you will reach or grab at a guy, that's why you see Olineman always hold after they been beat, it just happens so maybe the fact that they just are an inferior player as to why they are making the penalty to begin with.

Not to mention I'm not even sure that they legit are that bad at these things relative to the rest of the league, they have the 6th best 3rd down stop rate in the league which indicates they must not have too many 3rd down penalties. In regards to tackling they have one of the best rush defenses in the league and have given up the 5th fewest yards after catch in the league, two things where if you were bad at tackling you wouldn't excel at. 

edit: I found the missed tackles stat and they do have the 5th most missed tackles so despite those two stats I mentioned that they excel in it does appear they miss too many tackles and should be better at that. Again though not sure how much the DC can do to help that or if at some point you have to point the finger at the player.

Edited November 22, 2023 by RandyMarsh

[Jason_R]

14 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Yeah everybody complains about Glenn and I get it it's frustrating when you see teams carve you up and it's easier to blame the DC but considering the injuries and just overall talent level on the defense I don't think they have been THAT bad and I think you'd be hard pressed to find a DC that would be much better. 

I mean look at who Glenn has to work with, Hutch is a beast but even he isn't a Myles Garrett type outside of him you have McNeil who would start on most teams but that would prob be it on the d line. Anzalone has been solid this year but that has been offset by Campbell being one of the worst LBs in the league, hopefully that is just due to being a rookie.

In the secondary you have Sutton who is good but again it's not like he is a bonafide number 1, if he was we wouldn't have gotten him for what we paid. I love Branch but like Campbell he is still a rookie and prone to some lapses not to mention him probably not being 100%.

Add it all up and I just think it's unfair to expect that good of defense with the players they have. Maybe you can argue they should blitz more but then you have guys like Jacobs being left on an island. 

Agreed. We should not forget that the defense from last year was worst in yards allowed and third from the bottom in points allowed. This year they are ninth in yards allowed and 21st in points allowed, despite the fact that two of three players they signed to start in their secondary have missed almost the entire season, along with a player who had 20% of their sacks last year. The defense is still a work in progress, but they kept the team in the game for a historic comeback against the Bears.

I still think Houston will be back this year, and I suspect MCDC will have to fight CJGJ to keep him off of the field in the playoffs. 

[TP_Fan]

14 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Yeah everybody complains about Glenn and I get it it's frustrating when you see teams carve you up and it's easier to blame the DC but considering the injuries and just overall talent level on the defense I don't think they have been THAT bad and I think you'd be hard pressed to find a DC that would be much better. 

I mean look at who Glenn has to work with, Hutch is a beast but even he isn't a Myles Garrett type outside of him you have McNeil who would start on most teams but that would prob be it on the d line. Anzalone has been solid this year but that has been offset by Campbell being one of the worst LBs in the league, hopefully that is just due to being a rookie.

In the secondary you have Sutton who is good but again it's not like he is a bonafide number 1, if he was we wouldn't have gotten him for what we paid. I love Branch but like Campbell he is still a rookie and prone to some lapses not to mention him probably not being 100%.

Add it all up and I just think it's unfair to expect that good of defense with the players they have. Maybe you can argue they should blitz more but then you have guys like Jacobs being left on an island. 

Since week 7 they have been the worst in the league. You can most certainly expect to be better than the worst defense in the league. The talent isn’t that barren.  The apologies for Glenn are something else. Look at how the Vikings D has improved under Flores.  It’s because he completely changed the scheme. The Vikings blitz more than anyone and disguise it really well.  Vikings have less talent on D than last year but have improved significantly.  To say it doesn’t matter who the DC is is nonsense.  It matters.  Glenn is awful, he is directly responsible for them being last in the league over the last 6 weeks. 

[RandyMarsh]

29 minutes ago, TP_Fan said:

Since week 7 they have been the worst in the league. You can most certainly expect to be better than the worst defense in the league. The talent isn’t that barren.  The apologies for Glenn are something else. Look at how the Vikings D has improved under Flores.  It’s because he completely changed the scheme. The Vikings blitz more than anyone and disguise it really well.  Vikings have less talent on D than last year but have improved significantly.  To say it doesn’t matter who the DC is is nonsense.  It matters.  Glenn is awful, he is directly responsible for them being last in the league over the last 6 weeks. 

They are middle of the pack in passing defense, 5th in rushing defense and 22nd in scoring defense. I'm not saying coordinators don't matter at all, they certainly do particularly on offense but there is only so much you can do when you are lacking talent.

Cam Sutton was the Steelers 2nd and sometimes nickel corner. He is our number 1. Jerry Jacobs is an UDFA who at best is a nickel corner but is our number 2. As mentioned Campbell is one of the lowest graded LBs and starting defenders in football. 

Our d line has 1 stud, a good DT and some guys that would be part time players on just about any other team. 

Collectively there is only 2 1st round picks on the entire defense and 1 of them is a rookie who as mentioned has been horrendous. 

If the coordinators meant as much as you make them out to be teams wouldn't sign any marquee players or use their first round picks. Just sign any veteran and draft a bunch of mid to late round guys and have the coordinator work his magic since that's all that matters. 

And for the record I do agree that I think they need to blitz more but I also concede that I am just a fan and not a 15 year NFL vet like Glenn was on top of all of his coaching history. Between him and Campbell there has to be a reason why they are reluctant to other than them just being terrible at what they do. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by RandyMarsh

[NYLion]

On 11/20/2023 at 9:17 AM, CMRivdogs said:

 

That game was peak SOL. That team was a one and done anyway but that game was a microcosm of the last 60+ years of Lions football all wrapped up in one game.