POLITICS SCHMALITICS

[Mr.TaterSalad]

3 minutes ago, buddha said:

the world is a much different place than when most of those immigrants came here.

regardless, youre not really arguing with what i wrote, your just making a comment about history.

You aren't arguing with what I wrote. Muslim travel and immigration ban, caps on immigration, the border wall, ending birthright citizenship, keeping Syrian refugees out and not allowing them a pathway to citizenship, English as the official language. None of that is supporting legal immigration, no matter how many Gallup polls you produce. That is based out of phobias, fears, and ignorance that people have of non-white, non-Christian people immigrants.

If I poll 10 of my neighbors and 8 out of 10 think shoplifting is morally wrong, but 6 of the 8 have shoplifting on their record or will end up shoplifting in the future, then my poll is meaningless. It's the same thing with the immigration debate, the actions don't match the words. The policies supported by Trump and his supporters doesn't back up what the Gallup poll says.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Mr.TaterSalad

[buddha]

9 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Do you really believe in your heart that Trump and a large majority of people in the MAGA movement that support him are are not racist or xenophobic? Do you really believe that some Gallup poll proves this? They supported a travel ban from Muslim-majority nations. They supported hard caps on legal immigration. They supported keeping Syrian and other refugees out. They supported ending birthright citizenship. They supported making English the official language. Why do you think that is? Anyone can tell Gallup or any polling firm whatever they want. If you vote for Trump and mirror his rhetoric, then you don't support immigration, legal or undocumented/illegal.

Trump during the 2016 campaign on immigration . . .

 

youre fixated on maga people.  that's a nice enemy that you can safely parody.  im talking about the majority of americans.  the majority if americans have a problem with people coming here "illegally."  they have no problem with people - no matter what their color - coming here through legal processes.

g2 may consider that a distinction without a difference or some sort of marketing technique by the gop because 100 years ago italians came here on a boat, but i think he's wrong.  i think its a real distinction.

tater, all you want to do is call "maga supporters" racists.  fine.  cool.  but youre really not arguing against my overall point.  at least not with anything other than anecdotal evidence and rants against "maga".

[Mr.TaterSalad]

5 minutes ago, buddha said:

youre fixated on maga people.  that's a nice enemy that you can safely parody.  im talking about the majority of americans.  the majority if americans have a problem with people coming here "illegally."  they have no problem with people - no matter what their color - coming here through legal processes.

g2 may consider that a distinction without a difference or some sort of marketing technique by the gop because 100 years ago italians came here on a boat, but i think he's wrong.  i think its a real distinction.

tater, all you want to do is call "maga supporters" racists.  fine.  cool.  but youre really not arguing against my overall point.  at least not with anything other than anecdotal evidence and rants against "maga".

Of course I am fixated on MAGA people. Donald Trump won 74,223,369 votes in 2020. He won 14,015,993 votes in the 2016 Republic Primary. These are not a fringe group or movement in America, they represent damn near half of the American electorate. I have routinely referenced xenophobic policies they support like the Muslim travel ban, immigration caps, ending birthright citizenship, walling off the border, English as the official language, the Birther movement against Obama and you just ignore all of that.

The last President of the United States thought that the previous President of the United States was a Kenyan-born Muslim and an illegitimate citizen and President of the Untied States. A majority of his base agreed with him. A 2016 NBC News poll found that 72 percent of registered Republican voters hold doubts about the president's citizenship. According to the poll, eight in 10 Democrats agree that Obama was born in the U.S. Only 27 percent of Republicans agree with that statement; 41 percent disagree. How is that not racist and xenophobic against not only Obama, but African immigrants?

Edited February 1, 2022 by Mr.TaterSalad

[buddha]

1 minute ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

You aren't arguing with what I wrote. Muslim travel and immigration ban, caps on immigration, the border wall, ending birthright citizenship, keeping Syrian refugees out and not allowing them a pathway to citizenship, English as the official language. None of that is supporting legal immigration. That is based out of phobias, fears, and ignorance that people have of non-white, non-Christian people immigrants.

youre right, im not arguing with what you wrote because what you wrote has nothing to do with what i was talking about.  its the usual tater rant of things tater wants to rant about.

most americans love the idea of "immigration."  all the polling says so.  but they hate illegal immigration and see it as a problem.  thats not just your bogeyman "maga trump people," thats most americans.

so im not sure what all your ranting about walls and muslim bans has to do with that.

and just so you know, truno's "muslim ban" was very unpopular wirh americans.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2015/12/16/upshot/how-unpopular-is-trumps-muslim-ban-depends-how-you-ask.amp.html

 

[buddha]

2 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Of course I am fixated on MAGA people. Donald Trump won 74,223,369 votes in 2020. He won 14,015,993 votes in the 2016 Republic Primary. These are not a fringe group or movement in America, they represent damn near half of the American electorate. I have routinely referenced xenophobic policies they support like the Muslim travel ban, immigration caps, ending birthright citizenship, walling off the border, English as the official language, the Birther movement against Obama and you just ignore all of that.

all those things were unpopular with americans except maybe the wall.  so what's your point?  other than maga sucks, which yeah we get it.

[gehringer_2]

3 minutes ago, buddha said:

regardless, youre not really arguing with what i wrote, your just making a comment about history.

Correct, it was a comment, not an arg.  I do occasionally go beyond dialectic as the only allowed from of discourse. 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

1 minute ago, buddha said:

all those things were unpopular with americans except maybe the wall.  so what's your point?  other than maga sucks, which yeah we get it.

My point is that you cast the average Republican voter as being supportive of legal immigration, when they are not. They are supportive of legal immigration for white people and some Republican-leaning Hispanics from Cuba and Venezuela. They voted for Trump and the racist, xenophobic policies he tried implementing as President. They did so without making a distinction either. It wasn't as if a majority of the Republican base was going around saying the Muslim travel ban or immigration caps or English as the official language or Obama wasn't a citizen was bad. To the contrary, a majority of his base supported those things.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

Politco: Poll: 6 in 10 GOP voters back Trump's Muslim ban

Quote

 

Nearly six in 10 Republican voters agree with Donald Trump's call to temporarily ban all Muslims from the United States in the wake of recent terrorist attacks, according to the results of the latest ABC News/Washington Post survey out Monday afternoon.

About 59 percent of Republican voters surveyed said they supported Trump's proposal, while 38 percent said it was the wrong thing to do. Overall, however, 60 percent of all adults surveyed disagreed with Trump's Muslim proposal, while just 36 percent said it was the right thing to do.

 

A majority of the Republican base and Republican voters, 59% supported a Muslim travel ban. If you don't support people of the Muslim faith coming to this country legally or obtaining legal status then you don't get to claim you support legal immigration, no matter how you answer the Gallup questions.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Mr.TaterSalad

[pfife]

All you need to do is listen to cspan for an hour in the mornings to know where Republicans are on immigration.  They'll call in and tell you.

[buddha]

12 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

My point is that you cast the average Republican voter as being supportive of legal immigration, when they are not. They are supportive of legal immigration for white people and some Republican-leaning Hispanics from Cuba and Venezuela. They voted for Trump and the racist, xenophobic policies he tried implementing as President. They did so without making a distinction either. It wasn't as if a majority of the Republican base was going around saying the Muslim travel ban or immigration caps or English as the official language or Obama wasn't a citizen was bad. To the contrary, a majority of his base supported those things.

i said 75% of americans are supportive of "immigration".  that's true.

i know you think all republicans are racist.  we get it.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

Just now, buddha said:

i said 75% of americans are supportive of "immigration".  that's true.

i know you think all republicans are racist.  we get it.

59% of Republicans supported the Muslim travel ban according to Politico. Are you suggesting that isn't xenophobic and Islamophobic?

Edited February 1, 2022 by Mr.TaterSalad

[Mr.TaterSalad]

12 minutes ago, pfife said:

All you need to do is listen to cspan for an hour in the mornings to know where Republicans are on immigration.  They'll call in and tell you.

Right, they aren't calling in with love and warmth in their heart for legal immigration. And while CSpan callers are anecdotal, there is other polling in addition to the one I shared, that showcase Republican and MAGA hostility towards non-white, non-Christian legal immigrants. Again, why did they question Obama's citizenship? Why do they support caps on the number of immigrants who are allowed here legally?

[buddha]

12 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

59% of Republicans supported the Muslim travel ban according to Politico. Are you suggesting that isn't xenophobic and Islamophobic?

what part of "americans" dont you understand?

again, youre making your point about how you think all republicans are racist.  i'm saying "AMERICANS" largely support "immigration".

"americans" includes more than just republicans.  did you even look at that link i posted, or did you just google muslim ban until you found an article that said republicans liked it?

[Mr.TaterSalad]

12 minutes ago, buddha said:

what part of "americans" dont you understand?

again, youre making your point about how you think all republicans are racist.  i'm saying "AMERICANS" largely support "immigration".

"americans" includes more than just republicans.  did you even look at that link i posted, or did you just google muslim ban until you found an article that said republicans liked it?

Yes, I read the Gallup survey you posted and I don't care what the average American thinks. I care what the average person who bothers to show up and vote thinks, because those are the people shaping the world we live in. Furthermore, Donald Trump supported a host of racist and xenophobic public policies as I have mentioned over and over again here, including against legal immigrants. If you voted for Trump then you voted for those subset of policies including the travel ban, immigration caps, refugee bans, Obama being a Kenyan, etc. You don't get to vote for someone as morally reprehensible as Trump has been on immigration policy, for legal or illegal immigration, and then claim "but I answered a Gallup poll once where I said I supported legal immigration." You don't get to hide behind that. By you I don't of course mean you personally, I mean the average Trump voter.

Furthermore, I showed polling data that showed a majority of Republicans thought it was ok to ban people traveling or immigrating from Muslim-majority nations and you dismissed that offhand. I would argue that gives you a more accurate picture of the GOP and MAGA than a Gallup poll because the Politco polling focuses on likely GOP voters.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Mr.TaterSalad

[Mr.TaterSalad]

I remember back in my libertarian days when I was occasionally voting for Republican candidates that then Republican Congressman and candidate for Senate Pete Hoekstra came out with this racist TV ad during the Super Bowl in 2012. Even back in my Ron Paul days I thought this was wrong. But why do you think Hoekstra and all of his Republican consultants produced and aired an ad like this during the biggest ad buy spot of the year? Because it resonates with their base.

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by Mr.TaterSalad

[buddha]

46 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Yes, I read the Gallup survey you posted and I don't care what the average American thinks. I care what the average person who bothers to show up and vote thinks, because those are the people shaping the world we live in. Furthermore, Donald Trump supported a host of racist and xenophobic public policies as I have mentioned over and over again here, including against legal immigrants. If you voted for Trump then you voted for those subset of policies including the travel ban, immigration caps, refugee bans, Obama being a Kenyan, etc. You don't get to vote for someone as morally reprehensible as Trump has been on immigration policy, for legal or illegal immigration, and then claim "but I answered a Gallup poll once where I said I supported legal immigration." You don't get to hide behind that. By you I don't of course mean you personally, I mean the average Trump voter.

Furthermore, I showed polling data that showed a majority of Republicans thought it was ok to ban people traveling or immigrating from Muslim-majority nations and you dismissed that offhand. I would argue that gives you a more accurate picture of the GOP and MAGA than a Gallup poll because the Politco polling focuses on likely GOP voters.

right.  because i was talking about "americans" and as you note above "you dont care what the average american thinks."

so youve spent the last two pages arguing what tater wants to argue about (republicans are racists, rinse repeat) and not what i was talking about.

its been two pages of us talking past each other.  

[Archie]

Tater likes to call Republicans racist but its his democrat party that divides people by race. If you think a muslim travel ban is racist you should think again.  Our biggest threats to national security is from muslim countries. A muslim travel ban is for national security and protects you and me and our families. The Biden admin doesn't care about that so they dropped the travel ban.  Also it wasn't from all muslim countries, only certain ones that pose a threat.  People like playing politics with lies to make it seem like it was a total muslim ban.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Archie

[mtutiger]

6 minutes ago, Archie said:

Tater likes to call Republicans racist but its his democrat party that divides people by race. If you think a muslim travel ban is racist you should think again.  Our biggest threats to national security is from muslim countries. A muslim travel ban is for national security and protects you and me and our families. The Biden admin doesn't care about that so they dropped the travel ban.  Also it wasn't from all muslim countries, only certain ones that pose a threat.  People like playing politics with lies to make it seem like it was a total muslim ban.

The Muslim ban didn't make me feel any safer. What it did do was produce a chill upon those looking to immigrate and come through legal means to this country to study or to work. I would know having been in contact with and befriending those who came here to do just that... they felt that it was punitive, and given Trump's past history of comments about Muslims, hard to disagree with them.

I'd just add that in terms of threats, the threat of domestic terror, particularly from right wing groups, seems higher right now.

[Tigerbomb13]

Not to mention the ban didn’t cover countries that were more of a threat that Trump did business in. I don’t think it made anyone feel more or less safe. 

[mtutiger]

12 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

Right. Most people likely to judge him an idiot have probably never heard of him because they don’t listen to that genre of media. 

I do think people overestimate how many people listen to Podcasts.... like most things, the conversation seems to be dominated by white collar types who have the time or inclination to listen to Podcasts..

Overall, terrestrial radio is still a much bigger player in this space.

[Archie]

2 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

The Muslim ban didn't make me feel any safer. What it did do was produce a chill upon those looking to immigrate and come through legal means to this country to study or to work. I would know having been in contact with and befriending those who came here to do just that... they felt that it was punitive, and given Trump's past history of comments about Muslims, hard to disagree with them.

I'd just add that in terms of threats, the threat of domestic terror, particularly from right wing groups, seems higher right now.

Again it wasn't a muslim ban, it was only certain countries that want to do us harm. I wouldn't blindly trust anyone from those countries so best they stayed out of US. It made the US safer.

[pfife]

19 minutes ago, Archie said:

Tater likes to call Republicans racist but its his democrat party that divides people by race. If you think a muslim travel ban is racist you should think again.  Our biggest threats to national security is from muslim countries. A muslim travel ban is for national security and protects you and me and our families. The Biden admin doesn't care about that so they dropped the travel ban.  Also it wasn't from all muslim countries, only certain ones that pose a threat.  People like playing politics with lies to make it seem like it was a total muslim ban.

Ron DeSantis is a republican and doesn't condemn literal nazis.  Nice try hoss. 

[pfife]

1 minute ago, Archie said:

Again it wasn't a muslim ban, it was only certain countries that want to do us harm. I wouldn't blindly trust anyone from those countries so best they stayed out of US. It made the US safer.

gee I wonder why anyone would call republicans racist.   Really hard to figure it out.  

[Archie]

I will add that in those countries there were a lot a large demonstrations with the people chanting things like "death to America." Are those really the people you want here?

[pfife]

Just now, Archie said:

I will add that in those countries there were a lot a large demonstrations with the people chanting things like "death to America." Are those really the people you want here?

Republicans tried to destroy America on Jan 6 and you celebrate them.