Coronavirus: Already In a Neighborhood Near You

[Tigeraholic1]

3 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Be that as it may, millions of Americans, including many in your neck of the woods, do business with Walmart daily.

Applying the same standard you are applying to Neil Young, you seem to be suggesting that anybody who shops at a Walmart are condoning of China's actions against the Uyghurs.

Let's just put it this way: if we all are held to that standard, for better or worse, we all are gonna fail it. Every last one of us. You fail it, and I fail it.

I and my neck of the woodsers don’t have a tangible good to sell to Walmart so that comparison isn’t equivalent.

Now if I sold churned butter and decided that I would let my goods spoil or take the profit from Walmart then we would be facing the same scenario.

[gehringer_2]

10 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

except there is no base in a dictatorship.

I don't really think that is true either, but it's another topic.

[Tigeraholic1]

3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Building a shared sense of persecution is a key element in propagandizing a movement. You should be on guard against it.

I happened to spend an hour recently trapped in a space playing country music and no kidding, 90% of the lyrics were "We're the only sane ones, kiss my ass the rest of you". It was kind unprecedented to my memory. The nearest thing I could come up that had the same kind of sense to it was David Crosby - "Almost cut my Hair" as the hippy anthem back in the day. They felt they were persecuted because they were being sent off to war involuntarily. Not sure what the right is suffering from that matches that other than a paranoia of not being a majority. But if you are going to live in democracy, you have to accept the odds you are not always going to be in control or else you are being a terrible hypocrite.

I wonder what percentage of posters here are military vets? The military is 100% volunteer isn’t it? Most being rural mouth breathers like me right? It’s join the military or work in a factory dead enders. African-Americans in the military are join the streets or enlist not much different. Talk to an African-American vet and you will get a similar explanation.

[gehringer_2]

12 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

I wonder what percentage of posters here are military vets? The military is 100% volunteer isn’t it? Most being rural mouth breathers like me right? It’s join the military or work in a factory dead enders. African-Americans in the military are join the streets or enlist not much different. Talk to an African-American vet and you will get a similar explanation.

the fact that service people are coming from a progressively narrow segment of the population and that so few as a % of the population serve at all is not a good thing, but you know we could no longer draft our way into a competent military in a technological era even if you wanted to put the Selective Service System  back in action. A lot of people talk about the virtues of instituting some kind of American 'universal service' for young people, but the reality is you couldn't shunt them all into the military anymore, you'd have to find other stuff for them to do - which would tick off business if it was anything with economic value so it gets complex in a hurry. At any rate the today's military wouldn't want want them or know what to do with them.

Edited February 6, 2022 by gehringer_2

[mtutiger]

28 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

I and my neck of the woodsers don’t have a tangible good to sell to Walmart so that comparison isn’t equivalent.

But if you buy the good from Walmart, you are directly benefitting the people who have tangible goods they sell at Walmart.

Seems pretty clear that we are all culpable. For better or worse.

[mtutiger]

19 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

I wonder what percentage of posters here are military vets? The military is 100% volunteer isn’t it? Most being rural mouth breathers like me right? It’s join the military or work in a factory dead enders. 

I grew up rural and managed to do neither. FWIW.

[buddha]

11 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

People with short memories need to be reminded. The vaccine was developed for the Alpha and Delta variants of covid. And the vaccine worked very good against the early variants. It's why such a huge % of hospitalizations and deaths were the unvaxxed.

And the vaccine protects against hospitalizations and deaths from the omicron variant.. I really can't believe you didn't know these basic facts.

i said the vaccines do not stop omicron from spreading.  that's true.  they do lessen the amount of hospitalizations.

so i do know the facts.  not sure why youre going after me.

[Tigeraholic1]

8 hours ago, mtutiger said:

I grew up rural and managed to do neither. FWIW.

When I inlisted it was a proud moment.  My family has served in most every major war since the Civil war.  

[mtutiger]

17 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

When I inlisted it was a proud moment.  My family has served in most every major war since the Civil war.  

Thank you for your service...

Just from my experience, some went to the military or were stuck around town, but a lot went to college in-state and ended up either the Tri-Cities or in other areas of the state (particularly GR/Western MI).

In general, I wish I could solve the problem of brain drain out of rural areas, but I'm not a demographer. 

[Tiger337]

10 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Very true but if you identify as right of center today you are labeled a racist xenophobic anti vaxxer.

I wish there were more right of center people.  Most of the vocal people who briefly join the conversation here are angry extremists who try to troll us.  I like hearing what you and Eswieg and few others have to say.  

[mtutiger]

20 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I wish there were more right of center people.  Most of the vocal people who briefly join the conversation here are angry extremists who try to troll us.  I like hearing what you and Eswieg and few others have to say.  

On the flip side, there's a tendency in social media to see the most extreme views from some posters and just blanket apply it to everyone that gets sort of tiring.

Just because one poster (or some Twitter rando for that matter) has a position on people who are right of center doesn't mean that everyone left of center feels the same way. The vice versa is true as well - despite what a couple of posters on this board seem to believe, not every Democrat or person who voted for Biden is a socialist who hates America.

I really believe that, deep down, most people in the middle are reasonable and can respectfully discuss the issues where they disagree.

Edited February 6, 2022 by mtutiger

[gehringer_2]

7 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Just because one poster (or some Twitter rando for that matter) has a position on people who are right of center doesn't mean that everyone left of center feels the same way. The vice versa is true as well - I really believe that, deep down, most people in the middle are reasonable and can respectfully discuss the issues where they disagree.

party registration on both sides has been falling for years. We have this weird situation in the US where half the people identify as independents even thought there are almost no swing voters! Most people vote pretty consistently one way or the other. Which tells you that most people aren't that thrilled with what either party puts out even if they vote for them.

[Motown Bombers]

I think a lot of people claim to be independent but they really aren't. It's like the people who up on the nigh before the election claim to be undecided who they will vote for. They just want attention. 

[mtutiger]

7 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

party registration on both sides has been falling for years. We have this weird situation in the US where half the people identify as independents even thought there are almost no swing voters! Most people vote pretty consistently one way or the other. Which tells you that most people aren't that thrilled with what either party puts out even if they vote for them.

Was just thinking about this recently - as you suggest, more people hate the parties (and party leaders) more than ever. While simultaneously, many of them, more than ever, will fight tooth and nail to defend them from just about anything.

Definitely a both sides thing, but I swear if I had a dollar for eveytime I've heard "I dont like Trump, but..." over the last five years, I could retire five years earlier.

Edited February 6, 2022 by mtutiger

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, mtutiger said:

Was just thinking about this recently - as you suggest, more people hate the parties (and party leaders) more than ever. While simultaneously, many of them, more than ever, will fight tooth and nail to defend them from just about anything.

Definitely a both sides thing, but I swear if I had a dollar for eveytime I've heard "I dont like Trump, but..." over the last five years, I could retire five years earlier.

the thing it's a self fulfilling kind of thing. If centrists are not interested in being active in 'their' party, that just leaves the field open to the more extreme believers who are more activist to control it. Not that I should talk, I have no interest in getting involved in the local dem party today, so there you go. 

[Motown Bombers]

21 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Was just thinking about this recently - as you suggest, more people hate the parties (and party leaders) more than ever. While simultaneously, many of them, more than ever, will fight tooth and nail to defend them from just about anything.

Definitely a both sides thing, but I swear if I had a dollar for eveytime I've heard "I dont like Trump, but..." over the last five years, I could retire five years earlier.

It's because they do actually like Trump but are too ashamed to admit it. 

[gehringer_2]

15 hours ago, ewsieg said:

All that said, I contend that if the US flipped the Obesity rate with China or Canada, and nothing else changes, those other countries have more Covid deaths (per capita) than the US.  

 

The Lancet with some research into what may be behind the difference in pandemic outcomes in different countries.

Basic conclusion was they found that on the medical side, age, poverty, and BMI mattered, but they also found that beyond that, countries with effective responses were those were those not racked by political and social division.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(22)00172-6/fulltext

Quote

The factors that explained the most variation in cumulative rates of SARS-CoV-2 infection between Jan 1, 2020, and Sept 30, 2021, included the proportion of the population living below 100 m (5·4% [4·0–7·9] of variation), GDP per capita (4·2% [1·8–6·6] of variation), and the proportion of infections attributable to seasonality (2·1% [95% uncertainty interval 1·7–2·7] of variation). Most cross-country variation in cumulative infection rates could not be explained. The factors that explained the most variation in COVID-19 IFR over the same period were the age profile of the country (46·7% [18·4–67·6] of variation), GDP per capita (3·1% [0·3–8·6] of variation), and national mean BMI (1·1% [0·2–2·6] of variation). 44·4% (29·2–61·7) of cross-national variation in IFR could not be explained. Pandemic-preparedness indices, which aim to measure health security capacity, were not meaningfully associated with standardised infection rates or IFRs. Measures of trust in the government and interpersonal trust, as well as less government corruption, had larger, statistically significant associations with lower standardised infection rates. High levels of government and interpersonal trust, as well as less government corruption, were also associated with higher COVID-19 vaccine coverage among middle-income and high-income countries where vaccine availability was more widespread, and lower corruption was associated with greater reductions in mobility. If these modelled associations were to be causal, an increase in trust of governments such that all countries had societies that attained at least the amount of trust in government or interpersonal trust measured in Denmark, which is in the 75th percentile across these spectrums, might have reduced global infections by 12·9% (5·7–17·8) for government trust and 40·3% (24·3–51·4) for interpersonal trust. Similarly, if all countries had a national BMI equal to or less than that of the 25th percentile, our analysis suggests global standardised IFR would be reduced by 11·1%.

 

[Tigeraholic1]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

 

Definitely a both sides thing, but I swear if I had a dollar for eveytime I've heard "I dont like Trump, but..." over the last five years, I could retire five years earlier.

Just like “I don’t like China, but”.

 

[mtutiger]

2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

the thing it's a self fulfilling kind of thing. If centrists are not interested in being active in 'their' party, that just leaves the field open to the more extreme believers who are more activist to control it. Not that I should talk, I have no interest in getting involved in the local dem party today, so there you go. 

Between how nasty and personal politics has become in today's age, where it seems primarily driven on culture versus bread and butter issues, as well as the fact that lower level positions are generally don't pay much, there's little incentive to get into the game unless you are either wealthy or a sociopath. Or both.

Chris Sununu's (NH Governor) comments about why he passed up a run for US Senate were kinda telling as well... basically said he didn't think going to Washington just to do whatever Mitch McConnell tells him to do was fulfilling enough to give up his current job. He's in the opposite party, but he's a reasonable guy overall and I respect his views on that.

Edited February 6, 2022 by mtutiger

[Sports_Freak]

13 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Very true but if you identify as right of center today you are labeled a racist xenophobic anti vaxxer.

That's because SO MANY on the right are racist, sexist and anti-vaxxers. Look at King Trump. Is there an American politician as bad as he is on SO many issues? Or do you agree with his aggressive form of leading the GOP?

[Sports_Freak]

22 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

People with short memories need to be reminded. The vaccine was developed for the Alpha and Delta variants of covid. And the vaccine worked very good against the early variants. It's why such a huge % of hospitalizations and deaths were the unvaxxed.

And the vaccine protects against hospitalizations and deaths from the omicron variant.. I really can't believe you didn't know these basic facts.

 

11 hours ago, buddha said:

i said the vaccines do not stop omicron from spreading.  that's true.  they do lessen the amount of hospitalizations.

so i do know the facts.  not sure why youre going after me.

I don't think I mentioned you. I'm talking to the idiots with a short memory who say the vaccines didn't work. I'm saying, yes they did/do work. As does correct masking.

[buddha]

26 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

 

I don't think I mentioned you. I'm talking to the idiots with a short memory who say the vaccines didn't work. I'm saying, yes they did/do work. As does correct masking.

you said "i really cant believe you didnt know these basic facts" after you quoted me.  

[Sports_Freak]

23 hours ago, buddha said:

so why do we have mandates that you have to be vaccinated before going into a restaurant?  

 

Restaurants, theaters, gyms and more. Because vaccines keep people out of the hospital. And keep people alive. Before you whine about getting picked on, I'm just explaining things we learned about the spread of coronavirus. You want to walk into a restaurant without a vaccine? All the people in the restaurant don't want unvaxxed folks spreading the virus. Science....learn it.

[Sports_Freak]

4 minutes ago, buddha said:

you said "i really cant believe you didnt know these basic facts" after you quoted me.  

[buddha]

5 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Restaurants, theaters, gyms and more. Because vaccines keep people out of the hospital. And keep people alive. Before you whine about getting picked on, I'm just explaining things we learned about the spread of coronavirus. You want to walk into a restaurant without a vaccine? All the people in the restaurant don't want unvaxxed folks spreading the virus. Science....learn it.

but the vaccines dont stop the spread of omicron. you can be vaxxed and still spread it.  so why have vaccine mandates to get into a reataurant if the vaccine does not stop the spread of the virus?  you can still spread it if youre vaccinated.