2022 NCAA Football Thread

[buddha]

the prize is for the big ten is notre dame.

miami and fsu gets you into florida, one of the biggest markets in the country.  i'm really not sure that miami brings you anything other than one of the most fertile recruiting grounds in the country.  they dont care about college football and dont really have fans.  it would rutgers...only decent at football every five years or so.

fsu would immediately make nebraska feel better academically, but is a complete mismatch for the big ten.  miami too.

but that doesnt matter.  what matters is getting into florida's market.

[CMRivdogs]

53 minutes ago, buddha said:

va tech has zero pull.  theyre a nonentity.  they add no markets and would just be a suck on funds.  

they will be in the leftover division along with the remains of the acc/big 12/and pac 12.

Here's an interesting piece from 2022 about the future of Tech and the possibilities for ACC teams. Basically the thinking is outside Notre Dame and possibly Clemson there really not much draw for either the Big 10 or the ACC. Basically leaving most of the ACC teams in second or third tier status.

https://theathletic.com/3415782/2022/07/12/virginia-tech-acc-conference-realignment/

I've always disliked the agreement the ACC made with the FB team from South Bend. Allowing them to poach bowl games without becoming a fully pledged member.

Let the big guys become pro feeding grounds, I'd love to see a conference with UVa, VaTech, WVA, Pitt and a few other Appalachian region teams (Cincinnati, Louisville, maybe Marshall and bring back say Maryland and UNC, NC State) 

[buddha]

1 hour ago, CMRivdogs said:

Here's an interesting piece from 2022 about the future of Tech and the possibilities for ACC teams. Basically the thinking is outside Notre Dame and possibly Clemson there really not much draw for either the Big 10 or the ACC. Basically leaving most of the ACC teams in second or third tier status.

https://theathletic.com/3415782/2022/07/12/virginia-tech-acc-conference-realignment/

I've always disliked the agreement the ACC made with the FB team from South Bend. Allowing them to poach bowl games without becoming a fully pledged member.

Let the big guys become pro feeding grounds, I'd love to see a conference with UVa, VaTech, WVA, Pitt and a few other Appalachian region teams (Cincinnati, Louisville, maybe Marshall and bring back say Maryland and UNC, NC State) 

that conference would be great in the new second ncaa division.  

eventually football will split off into a new division of its own with the big ten and sec with 20 team conferences.  maybe they drag along a third group?  maybe va tech can drag itself into that group?  dunno.  but the numbers thrown around in that article, 320k viewership, are so dwarfed by anything in the big ten and sec its like another universe.  michigan had about 5 million watch it bludgeon uconn.

virginia is a national university.  it has that academic prestige that va tech doesnt (not saying va tech is a bad school, but virginia is in a different class by reputation).  thats the only reason virginia is even in consideration.

were really good at football arguments dont matter.  cincy's run is temporary.  va tech's run was temporary.  are you a blue blood football school?  no?   are you lucky enough to have historical ties to a blue blood football school (hello indiana), no?  sorry, youre not invited.

[casimir]

I don’t know what it’s going to look like when it’s done, but I kind of just wish it’d get there so we can get acclimated to it.

[CMRivdogs]

26 minutes ago, buddha said:

that conference would be great in the new second ncaa division.  

eventually football will split off into a new division of its own with the big ten and sec with 20 team conferences.  maybe they drag along a third group?  maybe va tech can drag itself into that group?  dunno.  but the numbers thrown around in that article, 320k viewership, are so dwarfed by anything in the big ten and sec its like another universe.  michigan had about 5 million watch it bludgeon uconn.

virginia is a national university.  it has that academic prestige that va tech doesnt (not saying va tech is a bad school, but virginia is in a different class by reputation).  thats the only reason virginia is even in consideration.

were really good at football arguments dont matter.  cincy's run is temporary.  va tech's run was temporary.  are you a blue blood football school?  no?   are you lucky enough to have historical ties to a blue blood football school (hello indiana), no?  sorry, youre not invited.

Seriously, I get where you’re coming from. I don’t consider either school to ever be a consistent football powerhouse. UVA is like Northwestern in many ways. I’m well aware of its academic reputation, my wife was in the school’s first co-ed class. I just never think of them as a football powerhouse, ever. I go back to the bad ole Don Lawrence, Sonny Randle days.

I grew up closer to Tech and see them more as a Purdue type. Comparing Tech to UVA is like comparing U of M to Michigan State culture wise. If you look at their records during the Jerry Claiborne, Bill Dooley and Frank Beamer years I think you’ll find VPI&SU had a more consistent program. 
 

Academically UVA had better press (thank you Thomas Jefferson) but it has a big party school rep as well. Tech is considered blue collar still by some but outside of lawyers I think most employers would seriously consider Tech grads. Unfortunately they still have the Cow College rep

[buddha]

apparently they screwed up the big ten tv deal so badly they now owe fox $20 million and there are so many scheduling **** ups they have to redo much of it?

good for kevin warren getting that cushy bears gig before all his **** ups hit the media.

[buddha]

stetson bennett never graduated after 6 years in "school"?  lol.

[Deleterious]

 

[gehringer_2]

4 hours ago, Deleterious said:

 

interesting that a couple of apparently wannabe schools from SoCal don't make the top 25.

[buddha]

2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

interesting that a couple of apparently wannabe schools from SoCal don't make the top 25.

the list is contingent on who gave up the information.  u$c is a private school.

[gehringer_2]

36 minutes ago, buddha said:

the list is contingent on who gave up the information.  u$c is a private school.

I was surprised at Oregon.  I guess they do have one of the better attendence rates in the conference, I guess Eugene is no farther to drive to for a game from Portand than Lansing is from Det - it just seems to be more in the middle of nohwere because of the geography I guess. 

[RandyMarsh]

How come OSU is so much higher than Michigan since UM has a bigger stadium and I presume they have the same tv rights fees.

Is it more revenue from non football sports or do they have more/ better licensing deals and/or sell more merchandise? Or is it something else completely?

[gehringer_2]

4 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

How come OSU is so much higher than Michigan since UM has a bigger stadium and I presume they have the same tv rights fees.

Is it more revenue from non football sports or do they have more/ better licensing deals and/or sell more merchandise? Or is it something else completely?

I wouldn't put too much stock on any comparison numbers, more interesting to see year to year changes at each institution. At least those would likely be based on the same accounting systems. The other thing to note is that these say they are revenue numbers, but profitability is the real key to program health. If a system is spending $100M on fundraising to bring in $105M, their revenue may look a lot better than another school with less income but also lower expenses.

[Motor City Sonics]

On 6/15/2023 at 5:04 AM, Deleterious said:

 

and LSU is vacating three years of wins because some kid's dad got $180 K.   

 

Please.  

 

NCAA is such a joke. 

[MichiganCardinal]

Colorado and Prime Time to the Big 12. Is this the straw that finally breaks the PAC's back? They had their chances to survive and floundered them. I don't believe that they couldn't have poached Big 12 members in the aftermath of Texas and OU leaving for the SEC. No one to blame but their own leadership.

I maintain that the Big Ten should offer Stanford, Cal, Oregon, Washington, Miami, Duke, and UNC, in one fell swoop. Invite Notre Dame as #24 with a 24-hour deadline (I think they finally would, the money would be too great) and Virginia if they decline.

 

B1G East: Penn State, Maryland, Rutgers, Miami, UNC, Duke

B1G North: Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Northwestern, Purdue, Indiana

B1G Midwest: Wisconsin, Illinois, Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska, Notre Dame

B1G West: Stanford, Cal, Oregon, Washington, USC, UCLA

 

Play every team in your division every year. Play every team in one rotating division every three years. Eleven conference games, one effectively preseason non-conference game. Teams like Iowa could keep Iowa State if they want or schedule a cupcake.

To take it a step further, coordinate with the SEC and coordinate a new body, separate from the NCAA, for football only. Have the B1G Championship be a four-team mini-playoff that leads into the new College Football Playoff.

[buddha]

1 hour ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Colorado and Prime Time to the Big 12. Is this the straw that finally breaks the PAC's back? They had their chances to survive and floundered them. I don't believe that they couldn't have poached Big 12 members in the aftermath of Texas and OU leaving for the SEC. No one to blame but their own leadership.

I maintain that the Big Ten should offer Stanford, Cal, Oregon, Washington, Miami, Duke, and UNC, in one fell swoop. Invite Notre Dame as #24 with a 24-hour deadline (I think they finally would, the money would be too great) and Virginia if they decline.

 

B1G East: Penn State, Maryland, Rutgers, Miami, UNC, Duke

B1G North: Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Northwestern, Purdue, Indiana

B1G Midwest: Wisconsin, Illinois, Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska, Notre Dame

B1G West: Stanford, Cal, Oregon, Washington, USC, UCLA

 

Play every team in your division every year. Play every team in one rotating division every three years. Eleven conference games, one effectively preseason non-conference game. Teams like Iowa could keep Iowa State if they want or schedule a cupcake.

To take it a step further, coordinate with the SEC and coordinate a new body, separate from the NCAA, for football only. Have the B1G Championship be a four-team mini-playoff that leads into the new College Football Playoff.

that makes too much sense to actually happen.

but in reality, the tv revenue wouldnt be enough to warrant it.  that's too many mouths to feed.  that's the reason they arent adding wash and oregon now, they dont change the revenue equation and would just lower everyone else's take.  

the only way to get notre dame would be to lock them out of scheduling other big ten teams, other than that they'll just live off their games with michigan, usc, stanford, etc and take all the money for themselves.

btw, how lucky are northweterrn, purdue, indiana, RUTGERS, for being in the big ten?  they'd be nothing if they werent in the conference.  they'd be kansas, an afterthought.

[buddha]

one of the downsides to your plan would be that you wouldnt get michigan-usc, michigan notre dame, ohio state-usc, penn state-usc every year.  those are the big games (other than michigan ohio state) that everyone wants to see and the networks pay huge money for.

[lordstanley]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

one of the downsides to your plan would be that you wouldnt get michigan-usc, michigan notre dame, ohio state-usc, penn state-usc every year.  those are the big games (other than michigan ohio state) that everyone wants to see and the networks pay huge money for.

Two-tiered, 24-team B1G with relegation and promotion. Top half of the conference plays each other (11 games and 1 non-conf), bottom half of the conference plays each other. Teams #11 and #12 go down, Teams #13 and #14 go up

Edited July 28, 2023 by lordstanley

[casimir]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

that makes too much sense to actually happen.

but in reality, the tv revenue wouldnt be enough to warrant it.  that's too many mouths to feed.  that's the reason they arent adding wash and oregon now, they dont change the revenue equation and would just lower everyone else's take.  

the only way to get notre dame would be to lock them out of scheduling other big ten teams, other than that they'll just live off their games with michigan, usc, stanford, etc and take all the money for themselves.

btw, how lucky are northweterrn, purdue, indiana, RUTGERS, for being in the big ten?  they'd be nothing if they werent in the conference.  they'd be kansas, an afterthought.

 

1 hour ago, buddha said:

one of the downsides to your plan would be that you wouldnt get michigan-usc, michigan notre dame, ohio state-usc, penn state-usc every year.  those are the big games (other than michigan ohio state) that everyone wants to see and the networks pay huge money for.

They could schedule the 6 out of division games such that its two teams out of each division (6 total) and those cycle through a 6 year window (ensuring home & homes).

[MichiganCardinal]

3 hours ago, lordstanley said:

Two-tiered, 24-team B1G with relegation and promotion. Top half of the conference plays each other (11 games and 1 non-conf), bottom half of the conference plays each other. Teams #11 and #12 go down, Teams #13 and #14 go up

I love this, and it would also provide a route for the Big Ten elite to protect its coffers while expanding if they introduced a different revenue sharing system for the A-tier and B-tier schools. If A-tier was apportioned 2/3 of revenue and B-tier 1/3, then the Michigan/Ohio State/Penn States could maintain or increase their revenue sharing while still expanding. I would probably want to see B1 play A12 and B2 play A11 in postseason games though rather than just waving them up and down.

Of course it would never happen though. The Iowas, Michigan States, and Wisconsins of the conference would be afraid of possible relegation (and subsequently losing their job) and the Rutgers, Northwestern, and Marylands would be dead set against the notion.

[MichiganCardinal]

5 hours ago, buddha said:

that makes too much sense to actually happen.

but in reality, the tv revenue wouldnt be enough to warrant it.  that's too many mouths to feed.  that's the reason they arent adding wash and oregon now, they dont change the revenue equation and would just lower everyone else's take.  

the only way to get notre dame would be to lock them out of scheduling other big ten teams, other than that they'll just live off their games with michigan, usc, stanford, etc and take all the money for themselves.

btw, how lucky are northweterrn, purdue, indiana, RUTGERS, for being in the big ten?  they'd be nothing if they werent in the conference.  they'd be kansas, an afterthought.

The gross money would increase substantially with the addition of the SF, DC, and Miami markets, along with Notre Dame. The problem would arise with the per school share. Twenty-four cuts is a lot of slices of pie. There would likely need to be some form of revenue sharing agreement with the incoming schools (sans Notre Dame) that allows for the existing schools to ensure they’re not “sacrificing” their slice. The PAC-12 schools would still increase their money even without getting a full 1/24.

[buddha]

4 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

The gross money would increase substantially with the addition of the SF, DC, and Miami markets, along with Notre Dame. The problem would arise with the per school share. Twenty-four cuts is a lot of slices of pie. There would likely need to be some form of revenue sharing agreement with the incoming schools (sans Notre Dame) that allows for the existing schools to ensure they’re not “sacrificing” their slice. The PAC-12 schools would still increase their money even without getting a full 1/24.

they already have DC.  stanford doesnt really bring the SF market, which isnt all that hot for college football anyway.  miami brings FLORIDA (in theory).  the miami market isnt big for college football.  if they were really concerned with bringing a big florida name they would get florida state.

notre dame is the only school that brings more money to the table, which is why the big ten already has a carve out in the contract that calls for the total payout to be increased if it adds notre dame.  there is no such carve out for any other school, which is why it is unlikely for washington or oregon or stanford or north carolina or miami to be added.  all that does it dilute the payout now.

one could argue it changes the terms for the NEXT contract and potentially entices the white whale (notre dame) to join.  but that's forward thinking.  and expecting a bunch of ADs who wont be there in the future to dilute their payouts now to think about something that might happen 10 years from now is asking too much, most likely.

[MichiganCardinal]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

they already have DC.  stanford doesnt really bring the SF market, which isnt all that hot for college football anyway.  miami brings FLORIDA (in theory).  the miami market isnt big for college football.  if they were really concerned with bringing a big florida name they would get florida state.

notre dame is the only school that brings more money to the table, which is why the big ten already has a carve out in the contract that calls for the total payout to be increased if it adds notre dame.  there is no such carve out for any other school, which is why it is unlikely for washington or oregon or stanford or north carolina or miami to be added.  all that does it dilute the payout now.

one could argue it changes the terms for the NEXT contract and potentially entices the white whale (notre dame) to join.  but that's forward thinking.  and expecting a bunch of ADs who wont be there in the future to dilute their payouts now to think about something that might happen 10 years from now is asking too much, most likely.

Stanford and Cal combined would definitely bring all of SF, San Jose, and Oakland. Stanford doesn’t bring a lot of local eyes, but Cal does. And if Rutgers on their own can bring NYC, I think Stanford on their own could probably bring the Bay Area.

I think almost all of the schools bring some degree of money to the table. Even just an extra game every Saturday per two teams increases money. The problem just becomes dilution of the money.

[gehringer_2]

7 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

The problem just becomes dilution of the money.

Right. If any of the PAC schools beside USC/UCLA would actually bring more total $$ than the current B1G share, they would likely have already been asked.

The B1G's problem is how to jettison the deadwood. They can't maximize their profits until they find a way to do that.

Edited July 29, 2023 by gehringer_2

[buddha]

9 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Stanford and Cal combined would definitely bring all of SF, San Jose, and Oakland. Stanford doesn’t bring a lot of local eyes, but Cal does. And if Rutgers on their own can bring NYC, I think Stanford on their own could probably bring the Bay Area.

I think almost all of the schools bring some degree of money to the table. Even just an extra game every Saturday per two teams increases money. The problem just becomes dilution of the money.

i dont think the numbers back that up.  stanford-cal drew 2 million eyeballs.  that's their only 2 million game.  the only other one that comes close is stanford-usc.

michigan iowa is double that.  michigan illinois is more than double that.

the only pac 12 team that brings eyeballs consistently is usc (or when a pac 12 team plays a big sec or big ten team)  i would hazard a guess that usc-osu will draw as many or more eyeballs than stanford-cal in the bay area.

and i dont think that in the days of streaming people think about markets in the same way.  its like saying it was good for the big ten to get rutgers because it gave them the NY market.  did it?  or did the big ten already have it with michigan, penn state, and osu?

i have always said the big ten SHOULD get stanford as a way to increase their national brand (via stanford academics and other sports besides football) and to corner notre dame into joining by collecting all their real rivals (stanford, usc, michigan, and even msu).  but i dont think stanford and cal bring a "market" the big ten doesnt already have with the addition of usc.