6/21 7:10pm Tigers @ Red Sox

[kdog]

 

[StatikIEV]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

sure, and Javy's miss may have been Grossman's fault. Just saying you win more if you clean that stuff up. But the reason I go back the the play with Javy is that it extended the inning where your pitcher give up the big hit. You can also point to them guessing wrong on shifting for Vedugo. That may have been the worst because that could have been a tailor made DP ball in a standard set.

You don't get to be the all time record holder for consecutive error-less games in the outfield (and any position) by taking chances.

I think it was the right call by Baez even though it didn’t work out,  Grossman is kind of a let-it-drop specialist IMO.

Edited June 22, 2022 by StatikIEV

[SoCalTiger]

3 hours ago, chasfh said:

Not trying to make you madder about all this, but Paredes was traded because Schoop was blocking him. 🦆🦆

Candy also.....still feel bad 😞 

[SoCalTiger]

3 hours ago, mtutiger said:

That would have required a different GM.

I'm not kidding, I don't think he was getting the opportunity he needed here.

Totally agree. Weird thing is he showed good on base and strike zone judgment to his detriment per Hinch and no power. Now as a Ray it’s the opposite showing power, 8 homers  in 60 some abs or so, and low avg and walk rate.  Now is that a coincidence or different coaching philosophy? 
Maybe Hinch and Coolburger over emphasize pitch selection. G2 mentioned this about “zone hunting “ or some such nonsense. 

[SoCalTiger]

3 hours ago, Jim Cowan said:

Just to present the complete story on Paredes, going into the game his OBP was .242 and his OPS+ was 87.  We still have lots of guys who can't get on base, and aren't really missing him that much.

Maybe so but 8 homers and some power does sound good. And so cheap plus a draft pick and Meadows money to invest. Also for 2023 Miggy will be blocking Meadows best position DH. 

[SoCalTiger]

3 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

THe obvious fact is that Isaac never played enough in Det to get any kind of comfort level. They didn't given him a position to play or and confidence he'd get another AB. Some guys that doesn't bother, but it clearly did Isaac. The give away was when he came out of winter league having won the batting crown and then couldn't do anything in Det. You knew there was a player there we weren't seeing, whether it was major league or not, it was better than we were seeing.

Which has to be a concern for us fans about the development and Al. I mean you and many board members really know the game but even to me if someone had a good understanding of the strike zone and does well in the minors at a younger age than other players and fields ok with good glove and decent arm how can you not give them at least one solid run ? 
Tampa has him as an everyday platoon so he knows when he will play and if he does well they will probably try him everyday. Gradually giving him playing time on a consistent basis and expanding per his production. 
They got Meadows when he was young and moved him when the cost per production increased. Textbook player evaluation and roster management.  I’m jealous of their FO. 

[SoCalTiger]

3 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

if Javy catches the pop fly, it's a different ballgame. They can't seem to break through to a clean game. 

Yes the play of the game and a catch he makes in his sleep 😴 

[casimir]

9 hours ago, Jim Cowan said:

Just to present the complete story on Paredes, going into the game his OBP was .242 and his OPS+ was 87.  We still have lots of guys who can't get on base, and aren't really missing him that much.

That would get him middle of the order duty for the Tigers this season.

[mtutiger]

6 hours ago, SoCalTiger said:

Totally agree. Weird thing is he showed good on base and strike zone judgment to his detriment per Hinch and no power. Now as a Ray it’s the opposite showing power, 8 homers  in 60 some abs or so, and low avg and walk rate.  Now is that a coincidence or different coaching philosophy? 
Maybe Hinch and Coolburger over emphasize pitch selection. G2 mentioned this about “zone hunting “ or some such nonsense. 

He only had 23 games, 72 plate appearances last year in 162 games last year. He's been in 31 games, 86 plate appearances through 68 games this year.

He never had the runway he needed to get off the ground here, he's getting more runway this year. That seems like a significant factor to me.

Edited June 22, 2022 by mtutiger

[mtutiger]

6 hours ago, SoCalTiger said:

. They got Meadows when he was young and moved him when the cost per production increased. Textbook player evaluation and roster management.  I’m jealous of their FO. 

Meadows' cost per production is irrelevant to me... I do believe, even now, he is capable of holding up his end of the trade. 

[mtutiger]

10 hours ago, sabretooth said:

Some guys focus on the last 90 at bats and nothing else.

And salaries.  Because thats even more important than the last 90 at bats.  Which is more important than the last 900.  Or the next 900.

I think this is right.

Maybe Paredes ends up the better end of the trade. Very well could considering the conditional draft pick, tbh. But I'd rather see how it plays out going forward, at least into next year, before rendering a judgment.

Edited June 22, 2022 by mtutiger

[Jim Cowan]

2 hours ago, casimir said:

That would get him middle of the order duty for the Tigers this season.

That's true but comparing him to Schoop and Candelario this year does not make him a good player.  I like Paredes, I wish him well and I am impressed as heck with the Mexican Pacific batting title, you have to hit the breaking ball there or starve to death.  But the fact is that so far this year he still can't get on base in the majors, the power surge is nice and I hope it continues so that he can make some money, but he isn't a good player and Tampa hasn't magically unlocked anything.  I still think the trade is fair to both teams.

[chasfh]

8 hours ago, SoCalTiger said:

Candy also.....still feel bad 😞 

I don’t think Candy was the block, so much.

Schoop has no future with this team beyond next year. He’s a definite short-timer. (Or at least he had better be!)

As silly as it sounds right now given how bad he has done this year so far, Candy is (or has been) considered a potential contributor to the next playoff team. There would have been more of a future to a 3B-2B combo of Candy and Paredes with Schoop leaving, than of Paredes and Schoop with Candy leaving. That’s why I believe it was Schoop blocking Paredes.

Either way, it seemed that even though Paredes was always considered to have sleeper star potential in the return from that Alex Avila-Justin Wilson trade, he was never going to get the chance to make it happen here. His fate was sealed when the Tigers signed Schoop to the 2/15 (or, more exactly, a 1/7.5 with a player option!) on the strength of a middling 2-win performance last year (and at first base!)

It’s making me wonder whether there was something non-baseball happening behind the scenes that the Tigers front office or coaching didn’t like, and didn’t want to keep around. Attitude? Work ethic? Cultural mismatch? It certainly wasn’t lack of talent or potential.

[Tenacious D]

When it’s all said and done, I think we’ll be happier with Meadows instead of Paredes.  And I was president of Isaac’s fan club.

[gehringer_2]

10 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

When it’s all said and done, I think we’ll be happier with Meadows instead of Paredes.  And I was president of Isaac’s fan club.

You would think that. This franchise is under such a black cloud recently it's hard to accept otherwise normal probabilities as applying.

[romad1]

My emotional Tigeranon hypothesis:  The Union was angry at the Tigers playing around with Riley Greene service time and they sandbagged to protest.  

Absolutely absurd of course.  

[mtutiger]

9 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

You would think that. This franchise is under such a black cloud recently it's hard to accept otherwise normal probabilities as applying.

It's tempting to just be glass is half empty about everything that happens with this franchise (thanks Al!), but with this trade, I don't think we've had a big enough window to declare it a failure at this point. 

Same with the ERod signing as well btw, since I've seen  people call him Jordan Zimmermann from practically his first start.

Edited June 22, 2022 by mtutiger

[Tenacious D]

2 hours ago, mtutiger said:

Same with the ERod signing as well btw, since I've seen  people call him Jordan Zimmermann from practically his first start.

I haven’t seen that.  For me, the only comparison is that they were both long term deals that didn’t/haven’t panned out (yet for ERod).

Zimmerman was a much riskier signing.  Hopefully ERod returns and his personal situation doesn’t become a distraction for him when he does. I would not be surprised to see him sit out the balance of this season.

 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Tenacious D

[gehringer_2]

10 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

I haven’t seen that.  For me, the only comparison is that they were both long term deals that didn’t/haven’t panned out (yet for ERod).

Zimmerman was a much riskier signing.  Hopefully ERod returns and his personal situation doesn’t become a distraction for him when he does. I would not be surprised to see him sit out the balance of this season.

 

do we know if the wife and kids in the US or are they in Venezuela? If ERod left the country it's easy to imagine the situation extending.

Edited June 22, 2022 by gehringer_2

[Tenacious D]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

do we know if the wife and kids in the US or are they in Venezuela? If ERod left the country it's easy to imagine the situation extending.

good question.  certainly could present some complications if out of the country.  I wonder at what point the Tigers would void his contract, if they are able?  Certainly would not put them in a very good light, but everyone already thinks the front office is inept, so probably would not do much more damage.  In reality, this season is sunk, so getting him back this year doesn't really matter much, except that we have a lot of starters out and could have used someone eating some innings.  If he's back and ready to go in 2023, that would be wonderful.

btw, anyone read the Ken Rosenthal piece in the Athletic today?  Took the Tiger's front office to task--not a good look for Al.

[mtutiger]

4 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

good question.  certainly could present some complications if out of the country.  I wonder at what point the Tigers would void his contract, if they are able? 

They are currently paying his salary despite not being required to, at least per Trevor Thompson with Bally.... hard to see them making this move.

[casimir]

9 hours ago, Jim Cowan said:

That's true but comparing him to Schoop and Candelario this year does not make him a good player.  I like Paredes, I wish him well and I am impressed as heck with the Mexican Pacific batting title, you have to hit the breaking ball there or starve to death.  But the fact is that so far this year he still can't get on base in the majors, the power surge is nice and I hope it continues so that he can make some money, but he isn't a good player and Tampa hasn't magically unlocked anything.  I still think the trade is fair to both teams.

Sure, it’s been, what less than 3 months since the deal was made?  Too early to make a call.  But the early return for the Tigers has been frustrating.

[Motor City Sonics]

We were in desperate need for a Major League outfielder (because Al Avila can't draft) and the trade still makes sense to me.   Paredes could end up being a Jhonny Peralta type of guy, but I am not giving up on Meadows.    The guy has had a very very strange season and if he fully recovers from Vertigo we will see a good starting outfielder.