mtutiger Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 (edited) This is the other issue facing Trump... there's no shortage of material that has been created as a result of "states rights" on this issue Edited April 9 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 7 minutes ago, mtutiger said: I've been promised way too many "pivots" over the past seven years to just automatically assume one is coming. Of course, and it's a big "if", which I implied in the parts you excised. Single-digit percent, if at all. But speaking only theoretically, I think it could work for Trump if he could ever pull it off, and that's a scary thought, because you know on November 6, once he's president-elect, all the moderate talk goes right out of the window and Buyer's Remorse sets in immediately for 70% of the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 (edited) 32 minutes ago, mtutiger said: I've been promised way too many "pivots" over the past seven years to just automatically assume one is coming. bottom line is that it's pointless to even listen to what a compulsive liar says at any time about anything, because they've already proven that their words are worthless. But the pre-disposition to believe what people say is just to ingrained in the species and so many simply can't process that a liar's speech is nothing more than noise. I think that may be the most unique aspect of this particular age. Throughout much of the history of civilization public lying was generally severely punished. It was pretty much even in the US right up to Nixon. But somehow, possibly as the corollary to the explosion of voices produced by the digital age, maybe because it was impossible to hold *everyone* accountable, we just stopped holding *anyone* accountable to a standard of truth, and it's something that is destroying the ability of democracy to function. A public cannot vote without knowledge, and when everyone lies, there is no reliable knowledge, thus no remaining value in public decision making (i.e. voting). Edited April 9 by gehringer_2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 Republicans understand better than Democrats that Trump will say what he has to to win. Even though they hate Trump they still show up and vote. Democrats make it all about morals and purity and that's why they didn't show up for Hilary. Trump isn't going to lose from his extreme base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 5 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: bottom line is that it's pointless to even listen to what a compulsive liar says at any time about anything, because they've already proven that their words are worthless. But the pre-disposition to believe what people say is just to ingrained in the species and so many simply can't process that a liar's speech is nothing more than noise. I think that may be the most unique aspect of this particular age. Throughout much of the history of civilization public lying was generally severely punished. It was pretty much even in the US right up to Nixon. But somehow, possibly as the corollary to the explosion of voices produced by the digital age, maybe because it was impossible to hold *everyone* accountable, we just stopped holding *anyone* accountable to a standard of truth, and it's something that is destroying the ability of democracy to function. A public cannot vote without knowledge, and when everyone lies, there is no reliable knowledge, thus no remaining value in public decision making (i.e. voting). The non-bolded points are well taken, but with regard to the bolded, I do think a lot of folks giving Trump's statement credulity here underestimate how much those who Trump has turned off over the years have done so because they recognize him as a liar and as untrustworthy. On this issue or many others. Put another way, many of the voters that Trump is likely trying to message to with his statement would probably agree with you that it's pointless to listen to him and that he is fundamentally untrustworthy There's this tendency to just assume shallow and vapid statements like this from Trump are "brilliant politics" or "masterstrokes" or whatever because we've build this myth about him being an unstoppable force of nature. But the truth is a lot more complicated than that, and he does have liabilities that he cannot just explain away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 quite simply it's easy to push back on the "leave it to the states" argument by bringing up IVF. They left it to Alabama and IVF is now threatened. That's the logical extension of being anti abortion. No other statement is necessary. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 12 minutes ago, oblong said: quite simply it's easy to push back on the "leave it to the states" argument by bringing up IVF. They left it to Alabama and IVF is now threatened. That's the logical extension of being anti abortion. No other statement is necessary. I also can't believe that he chose to go on camera and say that he's proud to have taken out Roe v. Wade, at a point in time where Roe repeal is broadly unpopular among the general public. That's basically free ad copy to the Joe Biden campaign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 The quiet part out loud... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 2 hours ago, oblong said: quite simply it's easy to push back on the "leave it to the states" argument by bringing up IVF. They left it to Alabama and IVF is now threatened. That's the logical extension of being anti abortion. No other statement is necessary. There's some more 'leave it to the states' for ya 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 20 minutes ago, mtutiger said: There's some more 'leave it to the states' for ya Its fun to give DJT a hot potato like Gaza is for Joe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 23 minutes ago, mtutiger said: There's some more 'leave it to the states' for ya Regarding Trump's "genius" at threading this topic... I'm pretty sure he's not even aware that these things are happening. He just works off of slogans. "Roe bad" "Leave it to states good". And that's the issue's sides and he's on the 'right' side. The mechanics are other people's problems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 This election kind of reminds me of the 2022 Arizona election. Katie Hobbs was supposed to be cooked especially after she refused to debate. That was the whole narrative. Then when the votes were counted, she won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 In essence.... follow the betting lines. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, oblong said: Regarding Trump's "genius" at threading this topic... I'm pretty sure he's not even aware that these things are happening. He just works off of slogans. "Roe bad" "Leave it to states good". And that's the issue's sides and he's on the 'right' side. The mechanics are other people's problems. What people missed too is that this move was a reactive move and one made from weakness, not strength. And to the extent there was a goal in mind, it was to short term play to stanch the bleeding on an issue that is really not good for him versus really flipping the script and triangulating Today is a demonstration of just how short term the play was and how it completely disregarded how the messaging could get lost in new developments. Edited April 9 by mtutiger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 They are like an outfielder chasing a fly ball over their head and twisting and turning each way trying to figure it out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 4 minutes ago, oblong said: They are like an outfielder chasing a fly ball over their head and twisting and turning each way trying to figure it out. Couldn't resist 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted April 10 Author Share Posted April 10 6 hours ago, oblong said: They are like an outfielder chasing a fly ball over their head and twisting and turning each way trying to figure it out. "I'm calling on Katie Hobbs to immediately clean up the mess we just made and repeatedly congratulated ourselves for making" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smr-nj Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 Well, Jeez, what a fabulous day for women in Arizona who now get to totally immerse themselves in the culture of what 1864 encapsulated. What fun. Back to the good old days of the Pre-Statehood. -aka- The Territory of Arizona and the draconian Howell Law that will throw into jail anyone complicit in causing an abortion of a pregnant woman…. for a prison sentence not less than 2 years, nor more than 5 years. So, for today’s populace, here’s what is happening: should you be the driver that brought your family member or friend to the clinic, you’re going to jail. Should you be the nurse who checked you in and took your vital signs and brought you into the room, you’re going to jail. Should you be the doctor that performed the procedure you’re going to jail. And yes , if you are this woman who had this procedure performed on them you’re going to jail too. So says the Arizona Supreme Court. So said Kari Lake in 2022 (although now can anyone tell what the **** she’s in favor of now? You’d have to be a genius to figure out that drivel that was vomited from her extremely stupid face today. She learned to lie from the master, and now wouldn’t recognize the truth if it grabbed her by the *****. ) So, conclusion- **** the Arizona Supreme Court, and you, too Kari Lake. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 (edited) What's next? Disallowing women to have their own checking account or credit statement. How about denying their right to purchase a home, car..certain jobs...or even vote. The Family First Party will only be happy when women remain barefoot and pregnant Edited April 10 by CMRivdogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smr-nj Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 19 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said: What's next? Disallowing women to have their own checking account or credit statement. How about denying their right to purchase a home, car..certain jobs...or even vote. The Family First Party will only be happy when women remain barefoot and pregnant Yeah, the bad old days when, as a woman you’d submit applications for a personal credit card , you also needed to include the signature of a husband, a father, or some other man of worth…., all so the “little lady” can have a cc of her own (well, kinda). Totally humiliating. Was early 20’s on the ‘70’s; now early 70’s in the 20’s. So, if your thought is that we’ll be too old&tired to fight, you’ve not properly assessed the level of white fire anger women my age are - we fought for these changes back in the 70’s for ourselves, but going forward for our sisters, daughters, nieces, granddaughters , friends. Accepting what the new order wants to toss at us as the first of their “final solutions” is just unacceptable. Totally. **** no. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 7 hours ago, smr-nj said: Yeah, the bad old days when, as a woman you’d submit applications for a personal credit card , you also needed to include the signature of a husband, a father, or some other man of worth…., all so the “little lady” can have a cc of her own (well, kinda). Totally humiliating. Was early 20’s on the ‘70’s; now early 70’s in the 20’s. So, if your thought is that we’ll be too old&tired to fight, you’ve not properly assessed the level of white fire anger women my age are - we fought for these changes back in the 70’s for ourselves, but going forward for our sisters, daughters, nieces, granddaughters , friends. Accepting what the new order wants to toss at us as the first of their “final solutions” is just unacceptable. Totally. **** no. I love, love the passion. The younger voters who seem to take it all for granted need to get off their fixation on the latest outrages spewed to them by the Tik-Tok algorithm and see that the clear and present danger is the 6 inches in front of their face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 17 hours ago, mtutiger said: What people missed too is that this move was a reactive move and one made from weakness, not strength. And to the extent there was a goal in mind, it was to short term play to stanch the bleeding on an issue that is really not good for him versus really flipping the script and triangulating Today is a demonstration of just how short term the play was and how it completely disregarded how the messaging could get lost in new developments. Honestly I think Trump understands the political aspect of this issue better then most in the GOP. It's the one issue that I think he would love to completely flip the script and be pro-abortion on. In true populist form, he see's it as a losing issue and wants to be on the winning side of it. It's not like he has any personal convictions over it. Regardless if he continues to try and soften his public stance on abortion, the counter should just to continue pointing at SCOTUS and remind everyone of his role there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 1 minute ago, ewsieg said: Honestly I think Trump understands the political aspect of this issue better then most in the GOP. It's the one issue that I think he would love to completely flip the script and be pro-abortion on. In true populist form, he see's it as a losing issue and wants to be on the winning side of it. It's not like he has any personal convictions over it. Regardless if he continues to try and soften his public stance on abortion, the counter should just to continue pointing at SCOTUS and remind everyone of his role there. agree. I'm sure he's paid, or been responsible for plenty of abortions. He was only "pro life" because he knew he needed the evangelicals. Consequences for other people don't matter to him. It's about what's good for him. What he's finding out now is the consequences do affect him. There's no way to soften this without risking a big part of his base. If these states didn't over play their hand with their very extreme bans and including IVF and birth control in general in their plans maybe it could have worked. If they had banned 1st trimester with language on protections for certain situations it might have been somthing they could live with. But they didn't and now the gloves should be off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 This is a fun tool. I have no clue how useful or accurate it may be https://www.economist.com/interactive/us-2024-election/build-a-voter?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.