2022-23 Detroit Tigers Offseason Thread

[Edman85]

Drew Carlton opted for free agency. He was eligible because he's been outrighted twice.

[Edman85]

Those jobs posted yesterday all appear to be additions, not backfills, at least based on snooping social media. That just means there is growth coming to the analytics, biomechanics, and software engineering departments.

[oblong]

1 hour ago, Edman85 said:

Those jobs posted yesterday all appear to be additions, not backfills, at least based on snooping social media. That just means there is growth coming to the analytics, biomechanics, and software engineering departments.

Come on dude…. You know you want to do it. No hurricanes here. 

[RatkoVarda]

churn

 

[1984Echoes]

On 10/13/2022 at 3:02 PM, SoCalTiger said:

So in memory of our Uncle Al which player in your mind best represents his   Era ? For me it’s Dawel Lugo. 

You need to do this by Category:

1) Trade acquisition that Avila was needlessly hyped over, but ended up as nothing but Hot Garbage: Dawel Lugo

2) Worst Starter on the market that Avila somehow felt was worth making a #3 starter. Who was, indeed, the worst starter on the market: Mike Pelfrey

3) Pitcher coming off an arm injury that seemed to be OK but also quite risky with recent underperformance compared to career norms in addition to the injury risk... That Spectacularly Blew Up in Avila's face: Jordan Zimmerman

4) Over-drafted "hitter" that had ZERO hit tool, some power, and a complete inability to field any position: Christin Stewart

5) Over-drafted "hitter" that had ZERO hit tool, some power, with a hit tool so bad no MLB, no ability to get to said power,  Mendoza-like even in the MINORS, drafted in the top 2 rounds, and now every no-hit Tigers prospect is now compared to: Rey Rivera.

6) Awesome potential but injuries destroyed any chance to see the guy in MLB, immediately after we just traded our HOF Pitcher Justin Verlander for this key prospect: Franklyn Perez.

7) Below Replacement Level but we held onto him anyways because Avila couldn't find anyone better so he ended up with vastly more playing time as a Tiger than he EVER would have deserved with ANY other team in MLB: 4-way tie between Buck Farmer, Niko Goodrum, Christin Stewart, Harold Castro. (Feel free to expand this list to your heart's delight).

Or add as many additional categories... as needed.

 

 

 

[chasfh]

11 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

churn

 

He appears to be a plus behind the plate with no stick to speak of—but he does take a crap-ton of walks.

[theroundsquare]

32 minutes ago, chasfh said:

He appears to be a plus behind the plate with no stick to speak of—but he does take a crap-ton of walks.

he dominates the strike zone . . . just not with his bat

Edited October 14, 2022 by theroundsquare

[sabretooth]

7 minutes ago, theroundsquare said:

he dominates the strike zone . . . just not with his bat

you mean with his d***?

[Edman85]

2 hours ago, oblong said:

Come on dude…. You know you want to do it. No hurricanes here. 

A series of tweets telling Chris I to F himself after he extended the lockout earlier this year probably sealed my grave.

 

And I'm not proficient in the software they request.

[Tenacious D]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:but he does take a crap-ton of walks.

Hoping we bring Jonah Hill into the new front office.

[RandyMarsh]

2 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

You need to do this by Category:

1) Trade acquisition that Avila was needlessly hyped over, but ended up as nothing but Hot Garbage: Dawel Lugo

2) Worst Starter on the market that Avila somehow felt was worth making a #3 starter. Who was, indeed, the worst starter on the market: Mike Pelfrey

3) Pitcher coming off an arm injury that seemed to be OK but also quite risky with recent underperformance compared to career norms in addition to the injury risk... That Spectacularly Blew Up in Avila's face: Jordan Zimmerman

4) Over-drafted "hitter" that had ZERO hit tool, some power, and a complete inability to field any position: Christin Stewart

5) Over-drafted "hitter" that had ZERO hit tool, some power, with a hit tool so bad no MLB, no ability to get to said power,  Mendoza-like even in the MINORS, drafted in the top 2 rounds, and now every no-hit Tigers prospect is now compared to: Rey Rivera.

6) Awesome potential but injuries destroyed any chance to see the guy in MLB, immediately after we just traded our HOF Pitcher Justin Verlander for this key prospect: Franklyn Perez.

7) Below Replacement Level but we held onto him anyways because Avila couldn't find anyone better so he ended up with vastly more playing time as a Tiger than he EVER would have deserved with ANY other team in MLB: 4-way tie between Buck Farmer, Niko Goodrum, Christin Stewart, Harold Castro. (Feel free to expand this list to your heart's delight).

Or add as many additional categories... as needed.

 

 

 

Great post but just a small correction and that's Stewart was drafted under DD's watch, that's not to say Al wasn't the one pushing for him but ultimately DD made the final call.

[chasfh]

39 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

A series of tweets telling Chris I to F himself after he extended the lockout earlier this year probably sealed my grave.

 

And I'm not proficient in the software they request.

You’re still a child. Learn the software and get the job. 😉

Edited October 14, 2022 by chasfh

[RandyMarsh]

So these are new positions in the org? Any idea where we'll be at compared to the rest of the league in regards to the analytics department? Last I heard a couple years ago we were in the bottom 3rd but it seems we have beefed it up since then, of course other teams probably have as well so perhaps we're really not gaining any ground on anybody. 

[Edman85]

2 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

So these are new positions in the org? Any idea where we'll be at compared to the rest of the league in regards to the analytics department? Last I heard a couple years ago we were in the bottom 3rd but it seems we have beefed it up since then, of course other teams probably have as well so perhaps we're really not gaining any ground on anybody. 

A couple of them are new positions, but several of them are just additions to positions that already exist. They are still bottom half, but growing. Some teams pared their analytics staffs down. A long ways away from the Rays and Dodgers.

 

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

You’re still a child. Learn the software and get the job. 😉

Content in my current job, too.

[RandyMarsh]

12 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

A couple of them are new positions, but several of them are just additions to positions that already exist. They are still bottom half, but growing. Some teams pared their analytics staffs down. A long ways away from the Rays and Dodgers.

 

 

Do you know who some of the other top teams are aside from Rays and Dodgers? Just curious to see how well having big/strong analytics departments correlate to winning on the field. I imagine it correlates well but just wanting to confirm it. From a layman on the subject it seems like the Guardians might be one of those teams based off of their moves and how they seem to reload despite losing star players and not spending a ton of money. 

Edited October 15, 2022 by RandyMarsh

[Edman85]

4 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Do you know who some of the other top teams are aside from Rays and Dodgers? Just curious to see how well having big/strong analytics departments correlate to winning on the field. I imagine it correlates well but just wanting to confirm it. From a layman on the subject it seems like the Guardians might be one of those teams based off of their moves and how they seem to reload despite losing star players and not spending a ton of money. 

You can poke around media guides here and get an idea

https://pressbox.athletics.com/Publications/MLB Media Guides/

[Edman85]

It's hard to quantify given the gray area and how some of these things don't get updated, but if you include...

• Baseball Ops Analysts
• R+D Analysts
• Player Dev Analysts/Technology
• Programmers
• Software Developers
• Biomechanists

I've got the Tigers around 21

I saw the White Sox were about 7. The Red Sox at 32... I was going alphabetical by city, so those were the outliers. I count the Dodgers at 32, Rays at about 50. Braves around 20. Padres at about 15. Giants about 24. The Guardians don't list everybody on their website.

 

[RandyMarsh]

3 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

It's hard to quantify given the gray area and how some of these things don't get updated, but if you include...

• Baseball Ops Analysts
• R+D Analysts
• Player Dev Analysts/Technology
• Programmers
• Software Developers
• Biomechanists

I've got the Tigers around 21

I saw the White Sox were about 7. The Red Sox at 32... I was going alphabetical by city, so those were the outliers. I count the Dodgers at 32, Rays at about 50. Braves around 20. Padres at about 15. Giants about 24. The Guardians don't list everybody on their website.

 

Thanks for doing the leg work, appreciate it. Not surprising given their reputation but crazy how much more people the Rays have than others, also surprised to see the Braves with only 20, I thought they were another team that were heavily analytic. 

[SoCalTiger]

5 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

You need to do this by Category:

1) Trade acquisition that Avila was needlessly hyped over, but ended up as nothing but Hot Garbage: Dawel Lugo

2) Worst Starter on the market that Avila somehow felt was worth making a #3 starter. Who was, indeed, the worst starter on the market: Mike Pelfrey

3) Pitcher coming off an arm injury that seemed to be OK but also quite risky with recent underperformance compared to career norms in addition to the injury risk... That Spectacularly Blew Up in Avila's face: Jordan Zimmerman

4) Over-drafted "hitter" that had ZERO hit tool, some power, and a complete inability to field any position: Christin Stewart

5) Over-drafted "hitter" that had ZERO hit tool, some power, with a hit tool so bad no MLB, no ability to get to said power,  Mendoza-like even in the MINORS, drafted in the top 2 rounds, and now every no-hit Tigers prospect is now compared to: Rey Rivera.

6) Awesome potential but injuries destroyed any chance to see the guy in MLB, immediately after we just traded our HOF Pitcher Justin Verlander for this key prospect: Franklyn Perez.

7) Below Replacement Level but we held onto him anyways because Avila couldn't find anyone better so he ended up with vastly more playing time as a Tiger than he EVER would have deserved with ANY other team in MLB: 4-way tie between Buck Farmer, Niko Goodrum, Christin Stewart, Harold Castro. (Feel free to expand this list to your heart's delight).

Or add as many additional categories... as needed.

 

 

 

I like 👍 it 84. Taking it to an Art 🖼 form and then some!

[RandyMarsh]

As far as Tigers players that define the Avila era I can think of a couple and that's Candelario and Willi. Both seem like they've been here forever, both were acquired in rare trades that Al may have "won", both showed at times glimmer of hope but ultimately just like Al's tenure that fleeting glimmer of hope you may have had was ultimately fool's gold. 

[casimir]

3 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

As far as Tigers players that define the Avila era I can think of a couple and that's Candelario and Willi. Both seem like they've been here forever, both were acquired in rare trades that Al may have "won", both showed at times glimmer of hope but ultimately just like Al's tenure that fleeting glimmer of hope you may have had was ultimately fool's gold. 

Avila may have won those trades (I think that's fair), but then you roll in what Shepard said about overthinking the players' abilities, and that's where the team is.

The combination of acquisition and development just wasn't where it needed to be during the Avila era.  Wherever you want those slider bars to be on individual players/transactions or as a whole, it just wasn't where it needed to be.

[RandyMarsh]

1 minute ago, casimir said:

Avila may have won those trades (I think that's fair), but then you roll in what Shepard said about overthinking the players' abilities, and that's where the team is.

The combination of acquisition and development just wasn't where it needed to be during the Avila era.  Wherever you want those slider bars to be on individual players/transactions or as a whole, it just wasn't where it needed to be.

As bad as his trades and signings were I think the biggest failure is/was the player development and/or drafting. I say and/or cause not sure if he simply just drafted players that were destined to fail regardless or they didn't just properly develop them but if that wasn't such a train wreck we wouldn't be where we're at now regardless of the return on trades.

It's too early to count 2020-22 drafts but from 2015-19 we've gotten virtually no significant contribution from any players we drafted or signed internationally. Unless you hit on trades like DD did or sign FA's that make an impact you're going to have a hard time overcoming futility like that. 

[casimir]

1 minute ago, RandyMarsh said:

As bad as his trades and signings were I think the biggest failure is/was the player development and/or drafting. I say and/or cause not sure if he simply just drafted players that were destined to fail regardless or they didn't just properly develop them but if that wasn't such a train wreck we wouldn't be where we're at now regardless of the return on trades.

It's too early to count 2020-22 drafts but from 2015-19 we've gotten virtually no significant contribution from any players we drafted or signed internationally. Unless you hit on trades like DD did or sign FA's that make an impact you're going to have a hard time overcoming futility like that. 

No argument here.  I think the 1st overall picks were pretty much consensus picks, so, to a point its hard to critique those choices.  But it seems like the plan at hand was to scrape bottom, draft high, and eventually the team would pop up to the top of the standings.  A seven year tenure didn't deliver that.

[RandyMarsh]

1 minute ago, casimir said:

No argument here.  I think the 1st overall picks were pretty much consensus picks, so, to a point its hard to critique those choices.  But it seems like the plan at hand was to scrape bottom, draft high, and eventually the team would pop up to the top of the standings.  A seven year tenure didn't deliver that.

Yeah it would be unfair to be critical of the Mize and Torks pick if they don't pan out cause they were obvious choices that any GM would've made but I think all the other picks are fair game to be critical of if they don't pan out. 

[casimir]

I know the popular theory is that at least one of Candelario and Schoop do not return next season.  The free agency list just isn't there for both 3B and 2B.  Trades and waiver wire acquisitions are always questionable to predict.  I can see a scenario where they are both back (ugh....).

I did see commentary somewheres on the idiotnet about Harris taking a season to evaluate some things.  And I think its fully understood that he cannot patch up all of the holes in one offseason.  He's had his look at the organization from the outside and probably had ideas on what needed to be kept/changed from that viewpoint.  But now that he's on the inside, you kind of wonder how his list of priorities has evolved from the first week to now.