2022-23 Detroit Tigers Offseason Thread

[chasfh]

Well, that sucked for the most part, although it did get a little better toward the end there.

There’s gonna be a lot going on this winter, so might as well start talking about it now.

[gehringer_2]

👍

[RatkoVarda]

TL/DR: Sign a FA SS. Trade for Renfroe, Wendle. Add significant starting pitching.

C – Haase/Rogers/Navarez? No idea if Rogers will come back with average arm, let alone plus arm. Need to add someone besides Ali Sanchez as alternative.

DH – Miggy is a sometimes available DH vs LHP. Will see Meadows vs RHP.

1b – Tork

2b – Baez

SS – Sign one of the FA SS. Bogaerts/Turner/Correa easily fit into the budget

3b – Trade for Joey Wendle until Keith arrives for a September look. Marlins don’t want to pay him for last arbitration year.

IF – Kreidler/Harold in the mix. Schoop/Candy? Prefer to move on, but no good 3b FA. Schoop for LaStella?

LF – Meadows (DH)

CF – Greene

RF – Trade for Hunter Renfroe. Need RH power. Brewers don’t want to pay him for last arbitration year.

OF – Carpenter, Baddoo, Reyes in the mix.

Short, Willi, Daz, Clemens – hope they just move on from all 4

Rotation - Harris was part of a SF team that found a lot of good starting pitching. Will need to add 2.

Rodriguez, Manning?, Turnbull?, ?, ? - Faedo, Wentz, Garcia; with a huge amount of pitching lurking at Toledo (Madden, Olsen, Flores, Bergner, Elvin, Long, Kirby). Hutchinson or BGarcia on MiLB deal. Skubal returns 2^nd half? Mize in 2024.

BP – would be nice to trade Soto just for our sanity, regardless of minimal return. Maybe Lange has value. Harris should move Joe if he does not sign extension.

Soto, Chafin, Alexander, Joe, Lange, Vest, Foley, Cisnero, Hill, Brieske, Funk – nice core

I expect a lot of transactions from Harris.

[Tigermojo]

Stupid playoffs. Let's get to the transactions!

[chasfh]

I would like to try to predict which of the current guys on the 40-man roster, plus those on the 60-day IL, will be returning to the team, and which will be leaving the team.

Pitchers

Returning:

Alex Lange

Andrew Chafin

Angel De Jesus

Casey Mize

Ed. Rodriguez

Jason Foley

Joe Jiménez

Joey Wentz

Matt Manning

Rony García

Spencer Turnbull

Tarik Skubal

Will Vest

Minor League Contracts:

Beau Brieske

Luis Castillo

Kyle Funkhouser

Leaving:

Alex Faedo

Bryan Garcia

Daniel Norris

Drew Hutchison

Elvin Rodriguez

Garrett Hill

Gregory Soto

José Cisnero

Miguel Diaz

Tyler Alexander

Pitchers Comments: Chafin has a player option but he's close to home so I think he stays; De Jesus I think could go either way; Vest is gonna be 28 so he might be on the bubble; Brieske might have enough to be an organizational soldier with the occasional September callup; Soto might surprise and stay, although he might have punched his ticket out of town last night and today.

Position Players

Returning:

Ali Sánchez

Javier Báez

Brendon Davis

Luis García

Eric Haase

Ryan Kreidler

Jake Rogers

Jonathan Schoop

Sp. Torkelson

Akil Baddoo

Riley Greene

Austin Meadows

Miguel Cabrera

Kerry Carpenter

Willi Castro

Minor League Contracts:

Josh Lester

Zack Short

Leaving:

Tucker Barnhart

Jeimer Candelario

Harold Castro

Kody Clemens

Daz Cameron

Victor Reyes

Position Player comments: Sanchez sticks around pending Rogers' return, and he's developed on-base skills; Davis was a three-level hitting star in 2021 so it's worth seeing whether he can recapture that; if Schoop can replicate even the worst of his hitting years from 2019 to 2021, this is a no-brainer; say what you want about Willi, he's a WAR positive utility guy who can still be valuable to us for a couple mil; Lester and Short can both be soldiers like Beau; Harold has too many deficiencies to carry anymore; Victor is inexorably eroding and he's out of time.

Jeimer is the hardest one for me. All the buzz around him, including during game broadcasts, suggests he's going, and that's hard to ignore. But he was also a four-win player just last year, and two wins in about a third of the time in 2020. Do we really believe one year later that that is basically of another era, that there's no way he can recapture it at all? Did it really take only one year? I'm not so sure about that, and unless there is some underlying damning data we're not privy to that suggests he truly is done done, I think there's a halfway decent chance the Tigers bring him back if it's not much more than $7MM.

[Nerb]

No way Harris does not make a splash and sign one of the big SS. The money will be there. Seems like a pretty good bet, to me

[gehringer_2]

16 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I would like to try to predict which of the current guys on the 40-man roster, plus those on the 60-day IL, will be returning to the team, and which will be leaving the team.

 

My 'sad and dissappointed' will be to see Willi Castro back.

[KL2]

29 minutes ago, Nerb said:

No way Harris does not make a splash and sign one of the big SS. The money will be there. Seems like a pretty good bet, to me

Prepare for disappointment

[Nerb]

4 minutes ago, KL2 said:

Prepare for disappointment

As a Tigers fan, I am always prepared for disappointment

 

 

[gehringer_2]

52 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Jeimer is the hardest one for me.

Yeah - it is totally against the norm for a guy to have his bat - esp his  power, just dissolve in his 28th yr when he should be still be in his peak strength years. 

[SoCalTiger]

I think the following players are out of the organization next season :

Candy, Schoop, Badoo, Hector Castro, Victor Reyes, Barnhart , Cisnero, Soto, Clemons, Cameron, Garcia, Norris, Hutchinson, Elvis Rodriguez, Fadeo, Lange (trade ) Tyler Alexander , Manning (trade)

Kreidler and Tork will start in AAA

I fear Meadows will retire and possibly Edwardo Rodriguez will be traded for poor return because  he does not want to play in Detroit.

Surprisingly Willie Castro will make it as the 26th man because he can play right field and pretend to play infield and will take Victors spot as fourth outfielder.

And un Coolbaugh will be LOOOOOng Gooooone 

I expect tremendous turnover.

[sabretooth]

9 hours ago, RatkoVarda said:

TL/DR: Sign a FA SS. Trade for Renfroe, Wendle. Add significant starting pitching.

C – Haase/Rogers/Navarez? No idea if Rogers will come back with average arm, let alone plus arm. Need to add someone besides Ali Sanchez as alternative.

DH – Miggy is a sometimes available DH vs LHP. Will see Meadows vs RHP.

1b – Tork

2b – Baez

SS – Sign one of the FA SS. Bogaerts/Turner/Correa easily fit into the budget

3b – Trade for Joey Wendle until Keith arrives for a September look. Marlins don’t want to pay him for last arbitration year.

IF – Kreidler/Harold in the mix. Schoop/Candy? Prefer to move on, but no good 3b FA. Schoop for LaStella?

LF – Meadows (DH)

CF – Greene

RF – Trade for Hunter Renfroe. Need RH power. Brewers don’t want to pay him for last arbitration year.

OF – Carpenter, Baddoo, Reyes in the mix.

Short, Willi, Daz, Clemens – hope they just move on from all 4

Rotation - Harris was part of a SF team that found a lot of good starting pitching. Will need to add 2.

Rodriguez, Manning?, Turnbull?, ?, ? - Faedo, Wentz, Garcia; with a huge amount of pitching lurking at Toledo (Madden, Olsen, Flores, Bergner, Elvin, Long, Kirby). Hutchinson or BGarcia on MiLB deal. Skubal returns 2^nd half? Mize in 2024.

BP – would be nice to trade Soto just for our sanity, regardless of minimal return. Maybe Lange has value. Harris should move Joe if he does not sign extension.

Soto, Chafin, Alexander, Joe, Lange, Vest, Foley, Cisnero, Hill, Brieske, Funk – nice core

I expect a lot of transactions from Harris.

I would love this.  I really dont expect all of this turnover this offseason, but I hope they are this aggressive.

[casimir]

8 hours ago, KL2 said:

Prepare for disappointment

Underpromise and overdeliver.

-- Casimir 3:16

[KL2]

5 hours ago, SoCalTiger said:

I think the following players are out of the organization next season :

Candy, Schoop, Badoo, Hector Castro, Victor Reyes, Barnhart , Cisnero, Soto, Clemons, Cameron, Garcia, Norris, Hutchinson, Elvis Rodriguez, Fadeo, Lange (trade ) Tyler Alexander , Manning (trade)

Kreidler and Tork will start in AAA

I fear Meadows will retire and possibly Edwardo Rodriguez will be traded for poor return because  he does not want to play in Detroit.

Surprisingly Willie Castro will make it as the 26th man because he can play right field and pretend to play infield and will take Victors spot as fourth outfielder.

And un Coolbaugh will be LOOOOOng Gooooone 

I expect tremendous turnover.

Almost no chance tork starts at triple a

[casimir]

8 hours ago, chasfh said:

I would like to try to predict which of the current guys on the 40-man roster, plus those on the 60-day IL, will be returning to the team, and which will be leaving the team.

Pitchers

Returning:

Alex Lange

Andrew Chafin

Angel De Jesus

Casey Mize

Ed. Rodriguez

Jason Foley

Joe Jiménez

Joey Wentz

Matt Manning

Rony García

Spencer Turnbull

Tarik Skubal

Will Vest

Minor League Contracts:

Beau Brieske

Luis Castillo

Kyle Funkhouser

Leaving:

Alex Faedo

Bryan Garcia

Daniel Norris

Drew Hutchison

Elvin Rodriguez

Garrett Hill

Gregory Soto

José Cisnero

Miguel Diaz

Tyler Alexander

Pitchers Comments: Chafin has a player option but he's close to home so I think he stays; De Jesus I think could go either way; Vest is gonna be 28 so he might be on the bubble; Brieske might have enough to be an organizational soldier with the occasional September callup; Soto might surprise and stay, although he might have punched his ticket out of town last night and today.

Position Players

Returning:

Ali Sánchez

Javier Báez

Brendon Davis

Luis García

Eric Haase

Ryan Kreidler

Jake Rogers

Jonathan Schoop

Sp. Torkelson

Akil Baddoo

Riley Greene

Austin Meadows

Miguel Cabrera

Kerry Carpenter

Willi Castro

Minor League Contracts:

Josh Lester

Zack Short

Leaving:

Tucker Barnhart

Jeimer Candelario

Harold Castro

Kody Clemens

Daz Cameron

Victor Reyes

Position Player comments: Sanchez sticks around pending Rogers' return, and he's developed on-base skills; Davis was a three-level hitting star in 2021 so it's worth seeing whether he can recapture that; if Schoop can replicate even the worst of his hitting years from 2019 to 2021, this is a no-brainer; say what you want about Willi, he's a WAR positive utility guy who can still be valuable to us for a couple mil; Lester and Short can both be soldiers like Beau; Harold has too many deficiencies to carry anymore; Victor is inexorably eroding and he's out of time.

Jeimer is the hardest one for me. All the buzz around him, including during game broadcasts, suggests he's going, and that's hard to ignore. But he was also a four-win player just last year, and two wins in about a third of the time in 2020. Do we really believe one year later that that is basically of another era, that there's no way he can recapture it at all? Did it really take only one year? I'm not so sure about that, and unless there is some underlying damning data we're not privy to that suggests he truly is done done, I think there's a halfway decent chance the Tigers bring him back if it's not much more than $7MM.

A couple of notes:

I don't know where to get a list of rule 5 eligible players, but those guys probably have to factor in as well.  At least the keepable ones.

The 3B free agent market is dreadful.  Unless a 3B is acquired via trade, I suspect they grit their teeth and roll the dice with Candelario.  He has it in him, at least he's shown it before.  Its a matter of getting that out of him.  The hitting coaches will be different.

There was some lobbying during the TV broadcast last night for Alexander to return in some capacity, maybe long reliever being his best fit.  I think he does return as he can swing between starter and reliever.  There is going to be a need to pitch 1,400 innings, and Alexander can probably give them over 100 in some sort of hybrid role, hopefully more relief innings than starting innings.

And I think the overwhelming variable in all of this is a new front office.  Harris brings new eyes to the organization.  The new GM will likely be from outside of the organization.  So, there will be different input from those seats, plus Hinch who knows the inside of the clubhouse.  Despite Hinch being hired by Avila, he seems to be distanced enough from Avila that he is a quasi new/different set of eyes.  That 40 could be burnt to the ground for all we know.

But Jack Morris, of all people, made a pretty salient point after the game.  The goal should be the playoffs, and the team could redirect towards that as more of a short term goal than a long term goal, but the type of turnaround that would be needed is tough to accomplish.  They could make the playoffs next season given enough of the right moves, but how many times do we see a 25+ game turnaround?  Drunk Uncle Jack dropping a dose of reasonable reality.  Imagine that?

[casimir]

One thing is for certain.  The unknown of what happens makes this the most intriguing offseason that we've seen them go into in a long time.  It doesn't mean that in March it will have been the most intriguing offseason that we'll have seen the Tigers come out of.  But the variable of the absolute unknown is fascinating.

Edited October 6, 2022 by casimir

[romad1]

Matt Shepherd's face during that segment with Dan Petry and Jack Morris was something i have not seen and wish we would see more of.  Actual real talk in the Detroit media market (on the product side, not the Valenti jibber jabber side) is stunning and refreshing. 

People respond to the truth.  The Tigers are the most beloved professional franchise in this market.  A little bit of it from the product side would be welcome.   

[casimir]

1 minute ago, romad1 said:

Matt Shepherd's face during that segment with Dan Petry and Jack Morris was something i have not seen and wish we would see more of.  Actual real talk in the Detroit media market (on the product side, not the Valenti jibber jabber side) is stunning and refreshing. 

People respond to the truth.  The Tigers are the most beloved professional franchise in this market.  A little bit of it from the product side would be welcome.   

Rumor is Shep walked home from Seattle out of frustration.

He has his shortcomings as a play-by-play guy, but damnit, he had the pulse of the fans with his diatribe.  While I think his stated goal of the playoffs next season is a bit aggressive, he is spot on that it's time for this franchise to put a competitive product out on the field in 2023.  Its time to get away from being the bottom feeder that its been for the past 7 seasons.  7 bleeping seasons of bottom (5) of the barrel, and this farm system isn't bursting with talent ready to make its move to the majors?  Absolutely disgusting and indefensible.

[romad1]

5 minutes ago, casimir said:

Rumor is Shep walked home from Seattle out of frustration.

He has his shortcomings as a play-by-play guy, but damnit, he had the pulse of the fans with his diatribe.  While I think his stated goal of the playoffs next season is a bit aggressive, he is spot on that it's time for this franchise to put a competitive product out on the field in 2023.  Its time to get away from being the bottom feeder that its been for the past 7 seasons.  7 bleeping seasons of bottom (5) of the barrel, and this farm system isn't bursting with talent ready to make its move to the majors?  Absolutely disgusting and indefensible.

The front office might just not like that honesty which would be a real pity.  

[Motor City Sonics]

MOVE IN THE WALLS..................Especially Right Center field.   It's comical and the hitters and outfielders hate it.   Doesn't have to be anything drastic.  Maybe 10-12 feet in RCF, maybe 5-8 in LCF.    

[casimir]

5 minutes ago, romad1 said:

The front office might just not like that honesty which would be a real pity.  

The new member of the front office might agree with Shepard.

S'posed to be some coaching staff announcements tomorrow.  Coolbaugh and Hessman are easy to assume as gone.  i would imagine Gary Jones might also be gone, or maybe possibly reinstated as manager of the Mud Hens to replace McClendon.

I am going to guess some changes will be made around training and strength & conditioning also.

[romad1]

2 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

MOVE IN THE WALLS..................Especially Right Center field.   It's comical and the hitters and outfielders hate it.   Doesn't have to be anything drastic.  Maybe 10-12 feet in RCF, maybe 5-8 in LCF.    

I think this is overdue.   

[Tenacious D]

F Shep.  He still sucks.  If he were really brave, he would have said something during Al’s Reign of Terror.  Going off now could only endear him to Harris, who knows he has inherited a mess. That’s not courage—it’s pandering. I’m kind of shocked by the reactions here and that no one else sees this.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Tenacious D

[Motor City Sonics]

19 minutes ago, romad1 said:

I think this is overdue.   

I've heard rumors of it being discussed.   I would imagine a stathead like Harris is going to demand it.   I don't know the process, maybe it started already, but I know MLB has to do studies on it, so if they decided to do that now, it probably couldn't happen until 2024. .   Trust me, moving the RCF fence in 15 feet is not going to turn it into a Home Run hitters paradise.  

[oblong]

I'm in on moving in the walls too.  Don't have to make it a band box like Cleveland but it's just too extreme the way it is today.  I do think it messes with our players heads and their approach.  Visiting players not so much because they're only here for a few days so they know it's over soon.