Shinzaki Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 This is the 2023 Miggy...flavorful snacks and a lot of help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL2 Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 1 hour ago, sabretooth said: - we should be curtailing spending unless it will guarantee a ring or the playoffs (when no successful franchise does this). They all do it. What are you talking about? Nobody signs a giant FA when they know they are gonna lose 100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAbbott Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 2 hours ago, chasfh said: FWIW, I don’t think Harris has confirmed that Miggy is a lock to make next year’s team. What he said was it “is not time to move on from Miguel Cabrera … he's committed to doing the work to make sure that he stays a productive player … he has earned that.” I read that as, at least as of September 30 of this year, we are not committed to either releasing Miggy nor guaranteeing him a spot next year, and it is up to him to show us that he both is willing and ready to make positive contributions to this team in 2023. I think there’s at least half a chance Harris and A.J. spend the winter massaging the idea into Miggy’s head that it really is time to go, and even though he may show up in Lakeland next February, by the time March 30 rolls around, I think there’s a good chance he will not be on the active roster, and a decent chance he may not even be on the 40-man. Miggy may spend practically the entire year on the 60-day IL, traveling around with the team on his league-wide retirement tour and being our Hall-of-Fame cheerleader in the dugout and clubhouse, and perhaps coming off the list only to have his final ABs in front of the home crowd. This sounds like what the Harris approach might be. I have said my piece on this and I hereby impose a muzzle rule on myself about Miggy being on the team in 2023. No more on this subject for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 Cabrera wasn't a prima donna last spring, so I don't know why he would be next spring. He openly said that Baez was going to lead the team. As for "the team is bad so might as well keep Miggy", that was never said by anyone here. No one wants Cabrera on the team, but not many people want to release him either. So there we are. I don't think that there is any middle ground to fantasize about. The guy who gets the blame is dead, and there is nothing that Avila or Harris can do about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 16 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: Cabrera wasn't a prima donna last spring, so I don't know why he would be next spring. He openly said that Baez was going to lead the team. As for "the team is bad so might as well keep Miggy", that was never said by anyone here. No one wants Cabrera on the team, but not many people want to release him either. So there we are. I don't think that there is any middle ground to fantasize about. The guy who gets the blame is dead, and there is nothing that Avila or Harris can do about it. This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 Miggy “earned “ the right to play until he got 3000 hits and 500 home runs and to get paid the full amount of his contract but that’s all. The rest must be based on his contributions on the field like every other player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 15 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said: Miggy “earned “ the right to play until he got 3000 hits and 500 home runs and to get paid the full amount of his contract but that’s all. The rest must be based on his contributions on the field like every other player. So, you either give him a spot on the team, or you give him his outright release. Simple. No fantasizing about "creative solutions". Choose one or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: So, you either give him a spot on the team, or you give him his outright release. Simple. No fantasizing about "creative solutions". Choose one or the other. There is the 60 Day IL... one imagines with his physical condition, they wouldn't have to be too creative to place him on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 36 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: So, you either give him a spot on the team, or you give him his outright release. Simple. No fantasizing about "creative solutions". Choose one or the other. Yes. And I wager his pride would agree with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 lots of fat to cut https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/10/mlb-projected-arbitration-salaries-2023.html Drew Hutchison (5.097): $1.8MM Joe Jimenez (5.061): $2.6MM Jeimer Candelario (5.038): $7MM Jose Cisnero (5.020): $2.2MM Victor Reyes (4.075): $2.2MM Austin Meadows (4.074): $4MM Harold Castro (3.141): $2.6MM Gregory Soto (3.102): $3.1MM Tyler Alexander (3.058): $1.6MM Willi Castro (3.017): $1.7MM Rony Garcia (2.138): $1MM Kyle Funkhouser (2.133): $800K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said: lots of fat to cut https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/10/mlb-projected-arbitration-salaries-2023.html Drew Hutchison (5.097): $1.8MM Joe Jimenez (5.061): $2.6MM Jeimer Candelario (5.038): $7MM Jose Cisnero (5.020): $2.2MM Victor Reyes (4.075): $2.2MM Austin Meadows (4.074): $4MM Harold Castro (3.141): $2.6MM Gregory Soto (3.102): $3.1MM Tyler Alexander (3.058): $1.6MM Willi Castro (3.017): $1.7MM Rony Garcia (2.138): $1MM Kyle Funkhouser (2.133): $800K So Jeimer is the only one where the dollars might seriously influence any decision. TBH, Jimenez is the only guy on the list I'd make any particular priority to bring back. The rest are all filler material. INow if someone would give me something in trade for Soto I would take it. And then maybe Meadows - assuming the team is able to come to some reasonable understanding and prediction of what he might be in 2023. Edited October 10, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabretooth Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 1 hour ago, KL2 said: They all do it. What are you talking about? Nobody signs a giant FA when they know they are gonna lose 100. Absolutely, you should get what you pay for as a team, at least in the aggregate. What I'm talking about is the sequencing. I don't believe sequencing D/D then winning then trade/FA is the best or even a helpful approach. It is argued by some that you should not trade for or otherwise acquire players with significant $$ contracts until **after** you have built a winner through the draft and development. But no team that has been successful over time has done it this way. You would be tempted to say the Rays and A's do it this way, but they don't ever sequence in any $$. Every owner and GM would love to do what the Rays and A's do, but only these two teams have been able to win at least somewhat consistently with a low payroll -- and even the A's have only won in 7 out of their last 16 seasons. Putting aside LA and NYY, since they are mega market teams, there are a handful of other fairly consistently successful teams like HOU, STL, and ATL, who have used D/D, trades and FAs as tools to build a winner, and maintain a pretty consistent level of payroll investment over time. The Royals are the closest example of the all-D/D approach, and in my opinion, it cost them several winning seasons, and did not build a sustainable model. Instead, KC used a one-in-a-generation D/D core to win 3 seasons, then when core aged out and/or moved on, their ongoing D/D production slowed to a more normal pace, and their very low investment in trades and FA caught up to them. More to the point, the sequenced "wait to spend" approach wasted 2011 and 2012 for KC, which could have easily have been winning/playoff seasons if they had acquired a normal amount of good trade/FA players. When KC did invest in a handful of good FA/trade products, they complimented the very good core to build a winner in 2013/2014/2015. When KC experienced a more normal level of D/D production after 2016, their low level of trade and FA acquisitions/production proved to be their undoing. To maximize the opportunity to win and make the playoffs on a fairly consistent basis, even teams who anticipate a once-in-a-generation D/D core **should** consistently spend something in the range of an average payroll; if a very strong D/D core "arrives", then a consistently decent team (in the 80 wins +/- 5 wins range) can become a great team for a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabretooth Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: So Jeimer is the only one where the dollars might seriously influence any decision. TBH, Jimenez is the only guy on the list I'd make any particular priority to bring back. The rest are all filler material. INow if someone would give me something in trade for Soto I would take it. And then maybe Meadows - assuming the team is able to come to some reasonable understanding and prediction of what he might be in 2023. I believe with Jeimer you could get him at a lower-than-arb $$ if you released him and let him explore the FA market, then see if he would come back for less, right? There is no way that they should wind up paying him $7M. He might bounce back, I wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of bounce-back, but I wouldn't want to see them pay him based on that assumption. Yeah, you have to bring back Jiminez. The guy is a legitimate plus reliever, maybe their best depending on whether Chaifin is back and pitching normally, and the BP is the one thing they have going for them. I'd like to see Meadows get another shot at it if he's up to it. The rest are all up in the air. If they can find value from any of them, fine, but I would hope that none of them are important pieces for the team again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 1 hour ago, sabretooth said: I believe with Jeimer you could get him at a lower-than-arb $$ if you released him and let him explore the FA market, then see if he would come back for less, right? There is no way that they should wind up paying him $7M. He might bounce back, I wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of bounce-back, but I wouldn't want to see them pay him based on that assumption. Yeah, you have to bring back Jiminez. The guy is a legitimate plus reliever, maybe their best depending on whether Chaifin is back and pitching normally, and the BP is the one thing they have going for them. I'd like to see Meadows get another shot at it if he's up to it. The rest are all up in the air. If they can find value from any of them, fine, but I would hope that none of them are important pieces for the team again. This seems very reasonable. I've long been a critic of Jimenez, but I think he's earned another season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 3 hours ago, Jim Cowan said: So, you either give him a spot on the team, or you give him his outright release. Simple. No fantasizing about "creative solutions". Choose one or the other. Yup. Make him earn his spot on the roster in Lakeland. The cost is sunk. Its simply can he play or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted October 10, 2022 Author Share Posted October 10, 2022 I said here before that we should sign Candelario if he’s not much more than $7 million, so I’ll stick with that. Soto is a trickier decision. For a two-time All-Star coming into his first arb year, you’d think he’d be closer to $7 million himself, which would be an easy hard no. (See what I did there?). But at $3.1, it’s almost worth the risk to give him a shot and then eat the money if he does crappy. The $64 question is, would we actually eat the money in that case, or keep running him out there? So I don’t know what they might do here Other than Jeimer and perhaps Greggy, I think they go to arb with Joe, Austin, Willi, Rony, and Funky and cut the rest loose, maybe bringing some of them back on as minor league free agents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, casimir said: This seems very reasonable. I've long been a critic of Jimenez, but I think he's earned another season. I also despaired he would ever gain sufficient command. But Joe's at the age where an improvement in command is something you want to give some run to. He was sort of the anti-Soto in that regard this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 26 minutes ago, casimir said: Yup. Make him earn his spot on the roster in Lakeland. The cost is sunk. Its simply can he play or not. And I don't think that they will release him, and he won't accept any of the "creative solutions" dreamed about by some, and therefore he's on the opening day roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 Played briefly with the Tigers but did as well as he could with it.... seems like a decent guy to keep in the org as a coach if he's interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobrob2004 Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 1 hour ago, casimir said: This seems very reasonable. I've long been a critic of Jimenez, but I think he's earned another season. I think we should trade him while he has value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 7 hours ago, Shinzaki said: This is the 2023 Miggy...flavorful snacks and a lot of help Looks like a weird chihuahua until you get down to the wings... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 23 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said: I think we should trade him while he has value. I would want to do that with Soto. Offer him arb and then trade them. He has value IMO, and someone will want him, and overpay for him. Maybe I'm wrong... But I think he has the highest trade value of anyone that the Tigers might want to trade... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 4 hours ago, RatkoVarda said: lots of fat to cut https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/10/mlb-projected-arbitration-salaries-2023.html Drew Hutchison (5.097): $1.8MM Joe Jimenez (5.061): $2.6MM Jeimer Candelario (5.038): $7MM Jose Cisnero (5.020): $2.2MM Victor Reyes (4.075): $2.2MM Austin Meadows (4.074): $4MM Harold Castro (3.141): $2.6MM Gregory Soto (3.102): $3.1MM Tyler Alexander (3.058): $1.6MM Willi Castro (3.017): $1.7MM Rony Garcia (2.138): $1MM Kyle Funkhouser (2.133): $800K That's 31 million for all of them. Take the money and use it on new players. None are playing prominent roles in 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabretooth Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 1 hour ago, mtutiger said: Played briefly with the Tigers but did as well as he could with it.... seems like a decent guy to keep in the org as a coach if he's interested. He seemed to be able to do something that nobody else on the team could do -- hit for power....I realize that he was quite old, but had very limited mileage on his body....really don't understand why he wasn't given more of a shot to play in 2021/22. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabretooth Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 54 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said: I think we should trade him while he has value. If they can repeat the Wilson for Candy trade and get a starting player then sure. That was quite a steal though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.