2022-23 Detroit Tigers Offseason Thread

[Frozenbaugh]

3 hours ago, mtutiger said:

Brandon Drury?

Drury has dipped quite a bit since leaving hitter friendly GABP.  Hitting .238 with SD vs. .274 with Cincinnati.  OPS is down.  SLG% is down.   He might be a value find. 

[casimir]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

 

I guess the Baez to 2B rumors might have some legs after all.

(sarcasm alert)

[Tenacious D]

4 hours ago, sabretooth said:

No disrespect to Keith Colt or anybody else but I would like to see MLB level production before we anoint anyone as the next good starting ____.  

Kinda disrespected him, as it’s Colt Keith.  Just sayin’

[SoCalTiger]

3 hours ago, casimir said:

I guess the Baez to 2B rumors might have some legs after all.

(sarcasm alert)

Or Harris wants a utility infielder that can actually play the infield ?

[gehringer_2]

4 hours ago, SoCalTiger said:

Or Harris wants a utility infielder that can actually play the infield ?

could be one Castro down.....

Twins prospect report 2022:

Scouting grades: Hit: 45 | Power: 45 | Run: 50 | Arm: 60 | Field: 60 | Overall: 45

Sometimes you can go home again. The Twins originally signed Palacios for $75,000 in September of 2013, and he toiled away in relative anonymity in the lower levels over four summers before he was traded to the Rays prior to the 2018 season in return for Jake Odorizzi. After two rough seasons in the Rays organization and the 2020 shutdown, he came back to the Twins as a Minor League free agent prior to the 2021 season, where he had a breakout with the bat in Double-A while continuing to provide his typical strong defense, something that has continued with a move to Triple-A this season.

Palacios’ outburst with the bat was a bit of a surprise as the right-handed hitter controlled the strike zone better and tapped into his raw power more consistently, setting a career high in home runs with 19 and showing an improved ability to make hard contact. His success continued in the Venezuelan Winter League, where he posted a .987 OPS in 150 at-bats.

Palacios has always been an excellent defender with very good hands, instincts and a plus arm. He has the tools to play shortstop defensively on a daily basis, but any big league future lies in his ability to move around the field. He’s shown he can handle all four infield spots with aplomb and even played left field over the winter, giving him the chance to fill a utility role at the highest level.

Edited October 12, 2022 by gehringer_2

[chasfh]

Jermaine is an interesting pickup. Better than Jackie, Tito, Marlon. Not as good as Michael.

[chasfh]

12 hours ago, mtutiger said:

 

I think this basically spells the end of the Willi Castro era.

When I started reading about Palacios I was thinking at first oh hey, look, another Willi, since he too seemed to be someone with decent recent minor league performance and a bit of pop. But Palacios shows more pop at higher levels, and he was a numbered prospect—at least by Pipeline, for what that’s worth. Fangraphs wasn’t nearly as impressed, treating him as an injury depth afterthought.

The important thing here is that, if Palacios doesn’t perform, he gets quickly discarded, instead of hanging on for a few years putting up AAAA numbers in repeated call ups because we fall irrationally in love with the tantalizing tools we can’t seem to unlock.

Edited October 12, 2022 by chasfh

[gehringer_2]

18 minutes ago, chasfh said:

The important thing here is that, if Palacios doesn’t perform, he gets quickly discarded, instead of hanging on for a few years putting up AAAA numbers in repeated call ups because we fall irrationally in love with the tantalizing tools we can’t seem to unlock.

I think the other aspect is the the Tigers had really gotten away from the conventional wisdom (which I think is good wisdom) that the utility guys have to at least be plus defenders since they don't carry an MLB stick. Avila had been moving prospects whose bats had failed to develop but who were not great defenders in the first place into utility roles - exhibit A being both Castros. You lose on both ends when you do that. 

[mtutiger]

25 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I think this basically spells the end of the Willi Castro era.

When I started reading about Palacios I was thinking at first oh hey, look, another Willi, since he too seemed to be someone with decent recent minor league performance and a bit of pop. But Palacios shows more pop at higher levels, and he was a numbered prospect—at least by Pipeline, for what that’s worth. Fangraphs wasn’t nearly as impressed, treating him as an injury depth afterthought.

The important thing here is that, if Palacios doesn’t perform, he gets quickly discarded, instead of hanging on for a few years putting up AAAA numbers in repeated call ups because we fall irrationally in love with the tantalizing tools we can’t seem to unlock.

At a minimum, it's the end of the Zack Short era one imagines.... possibly Willi too given arbitration.

Regarding the bolded, yes yes yes. As much as some would deride "call em up" comments around here during the season, the fact that a team with a historically bad offense was as hesitant to use transactions and the waiver wire as the Tigers were during the season (among other things, of course) really spoke to how bad AA was at this whole general managing thing.

Edited October 12, 2022 by mtutiger

[alex]

13 hours ago, mtutiger said:

According to mlb.com, Drew Hutchison has been DFA'd. So I'm guessing he's off the table unless they continue their codependent relationship via minor league deals

I would tend to agree here. The Tigs more than likely spoke to him and maybe said something to the effect of 'We appreciate you and will give you every opportunity to seek a MLB deal - but if you do not find anything to your liking and a spot is still available (thinking 8-9 SPs) we will have a minor league deal for you.'

With this type of scenario Hutchison gets a big head start and has somewhat of a fallback option (as will the Tigs have as well).

Edited October 12, 2022 by alex

[mtutiger]

3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I think the other aspect is the the Tigers had really gotten away from the conventional wisdom (which I think is good wisdom) that the utility guys have to at least be plus defenders since they don't carry an MLB stick. Avila had been moving prospects whose bats had failed to develop but who were not great defenders in the first place into utility roles - exhibit A being both Castros. You lose on both ends when you do that. 

I honestly wonder how secure either Castro is - discussions here have generally centered on Willi, but while Harold has a decent bat relative to the 2022 Detroit Tigers, I don't know that you can completely count on them penciling him in next year given the issues with his defense. 

My gut tells me Harold's back, but IDK.

[gehringer_2]

5 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I honestly wonder how secure either Castro is - discussions here have generally centered on Willi, but while Harold has a decent bat relative to the 2022 Detroit Tigers, I don't know that you can completely count on them penciling him in next year given the issues with his defense. 

My gut tells me Harold's back, but IDK.

Should be interesting. Harold gets a lot of hits which had made him fan favorite, but his power is so poor it's still a pretty empty BA and he is not a good IF, doesn't have the arm for 3rd, doesn't have the range or arm for short, is slow turning the DP at 2nd and has a completely insufficient bat for 1st. If anything I see Palacios as taking his spot even more than Willi's.

Edited October 12, 2022 by gehringer_2

[mtutiger]

2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Should be interesting. Harold gets a lot of hits which had made him fan favorite, but his power is so poor it's still a pretty empty BA and he is not a good IF, doesn't have the arm for 3rd, doesn't have the range or arm for short, is slow turning the DP at 2nd and has a completely insufficient bat for 1st. If anything I see Palacios as taking his spot even more than Willi's.

As hard as I've been on Willi, there's a pretty compelling argument to be had (mostly based on age and future ability) that , if you had to keep one of the two, he'd be worth keeping around more than Harold. 

In a perfect world both wouldn't be around, but I suspect at least one of them will continue to be employed by the club. 

[Edman85]

There are seven roster moves that need to be made by 5 days after the World Series... five moves if Chafin and Schoop opt out.

[Cruzer1]

17 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

who?  maybe Lange and Jiminez, though I suspect the latter was shopped at the deadline.  And we're not getting a potential lineup piece (I don't think) for either guy.  I hate to be all Debbie Downer, but this is similar to what Dombrowski inherited and he made his famous, "you try and trade them" remark.  The only guys that I think we have on our 40-man roster with good trade value are maybe Greene and Tork, and their value is lower than it should be, not to mention those are the types of players we would want to acquire in any deal.

I really think the rest of the roster is going to get you a Travis Demeritte type of return.  We're not going to be trading our way out of this problem--free agency is the only viable route to make any improvements in 2023.  

Soto will fetch a decent chip.

[Tiger337]

On 10/10/2022 at 11:08 AM, KL2 said:

They all do it. What are you talking about? 

Nobody signs a giant FA when they know they are gonna lose 100. 

Dombrowski did that before 2004.  

[Tenacious D]

43 minutes ago, Cruzer1 said:

Soto will fetch a decent chip.

The guy we’re trying to dump?  If Fetter’s reputation is as good as we think, that won’t enhance his trade value.

Next year won’t be a rebuild or “tank” but will be equally painful to enjoy as we start to dig out of the sinkhole this season created.

[casimir]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

At a minimum, it's the end of the Zack Short era one imagines.... possibly Willi too given arbitration.

I think this move lines up with Short as well.  CastroW showed more competence in the OF than the IF, but that's not much of a bar to clear.  Its not to say that I think he will be retained.  Its a new regime, so more guesswork from a message board view.  Maybe I'm just being lazy because Short and Palacios are both RHH IFs with reputations of defense.

[casimir]

Oh, hold on now, Palacios pitched in 2 MLB games this season.  I see what's going on here.

[casimir]

1 hour ago, Cruzer1 said:

Soto will fetch a decent chip.

I don't know.  He might fetch a snack size bag of Cheetos, but Cheetos are awful.  No way he fetches a family size bag of Doritos.

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, alex said:

I would tend to agree here. The Tigs more than likely spoke to him and maybe said something to the effect of 'We appreciate you and will give you every opportunity to seek a MLB deal - but if you do not find anything to your liking and a spot is still available (thinking 8-9 SPs) we will have a minor league deal for you.'

With this type of scenario Hutchison gets a big head start and has somewhat of a fallback option (as will the Tigs have as well).

I don't see the value of giving a minor league contract to a 31-year-old pitcher who can't throw strikes, walks too many guys, and consistently gives up hard contact. He simply has no future here, which is proven by the fact that he was the first one to go.

If the Tigers ever have to lean on Drew Hutchison as a fallback option next year, then they will have fallen hard.

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, mtutiger said:

At a minimum, it's the end of the Zack Short era one imagines.... possibly Willi too given arbitration.

You're right, it is Zack Short that Palacios is replacing.

I think Willi will come back as our utility guy, someone who can give us slightly better than replacement level when he has to fill in for someone at any of six different spots on the diamond. Limit him to 250 or so at bats and he can be an asset at the end of the bench.

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, mtutiger said:

I honestly wonder how secure either Castro is - discussions here have generally centered on Willi, but while Harold has a decent bat relative to the 2022 Detroit Tigers, I don't know that you can completely count on them penciling him in next year given the issues with his defense. 

My gut tells me Harold's back, but IDK.

I think Harold is gone. He's been sub-replacement for at least a couple years now, plus he's arb eligible, and i don't think we're gonna pay good money for another year of that.

[Jim Cowan]

Palacios isn't a switch hitter.  The Tigers like switch hitting utility infielders who can't hit lefthanded.  You can play them and their .620 OPS in a corner outfield spot.  So, Palacios isn't staying.

[SoCalTiger]

Harold and Short are now history and I think Willie Castro is only regarded as an outfielder, mainly RF, at this point so he is standing on quicksand also. Of the 12 players on our arbitration list I put the over/under for the number being retained at 3 and I will take the under. Jimenez, Meadows if not retiring/broken, and Soto to trade/release if unable to trade.