chasfh Posted December 1, 2022 Author Share Posted December 1, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Longgone said: If you are expecting a young pitcher to show positive results stats, while harnessing his stuff and learning his craft, you are expecting a lot. I would like to see a young pitcher be better than basically worst in the league, and I don't think that's asking so much. Perhaps you are expecting too little, understandable given our recent history as Tiger fans. Edited December 1, 2022 by chasfh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 Is Jordan Zimmermann busy? This feels very Avilaesque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 2 hours ago, RatkoVarda said: yeah, the first player he brings in is a re-tread from some of the darkest recent days. but this is twice now that he has targeted Boyd, so maybe he sees something? His big mistake was targeting a former Tiger who we've already developed preconceived notions about. If it was a different project type pitcher, he'd be getting more leeway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gilmore Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 I think Brieski was called up due to injury long before the normal, ideal development curve. That he didn’t crash and burn means something positive to me. Not that he’s a good pitcher, just one who exceeded my expectations under fire. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 30 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: Is Jordan Zimmermann busy? This feels very Avilaesque. Al signed Zimmermann long term... this is far different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 5 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: Flexor rehab apparently is pretty variable - might be no firm date for Skubal. Hope Skubal can return by mid year and Mize probably 2024 or can he pitch next year sometime? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 Players market baby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 (edited) 39 minutes ago, mtutiger said: His big mistake was targeting a former Tiger who we've already developed preconceived notions about. If it was a different project type pitcher, he'd be getting more leeway He managed a 91 ERA+ for a career in front a team that generally couldn't field or ever get him a lead or hold one. Looking for undervalued pitchers from bad teams is a pretty typical attempt at an unexploited efficiency. Edited December 2, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 Just now, gehringer_2 said: He managed a 91 ERA+ for a career in front a team that generally couldn't field or ever get him a lead. Looking for undervalued pitchers with bad teams is a pretty typical attempt at an unexploited efficiency. The problem is he's still going to be on a bad team. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 13 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Players market baby Boyd's contract will look quite normal soon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said: Is Jordan Zimmermann busy? This feels very Avilaesque. 1 hour ago, mtutiger said: His big mistake was targeting a former Tiger who we've already developed preconceived notions about. If it was a different project type pitcher, he'd be getting more leeway Yeah... exactly. I don't see this as Avila-esque. I see this as no different than any other team that looks for a back-ender that can pitch in AAA, start, long-relieve, whatever based on circumstances, to fill out a rotation. A recovery play for rotation depth, and we, along with every other team, pretty much does the same. Per Edman's post, it looks like Harris has had some success with this. Avila not so much. Teheran, Fiers, etc... no different than this Boyd signing. Fiers was his one good job and pretty much miss on all the rest. Hoping Harris is better at this than Avila by taking a shot with Boyd... And it's after he's already made his health recovery last year and got back to pitching in MLB. And for just 1 year. I can live with it, and expected exactly this type of signing and probably one more recovery project signing for rotation depth... I don't see this move as deserving of any angst... IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 10 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Per Edman's post, it looks like Harris has had some success with this. Yep. It is a quintessential Scott Harris Giants era signing. It has as much or more to do with his own judgment as it does Matty being a retread IMO. It's hard to compartmentalize that as fans, I get it, but it fits the pattern. Whether it works or not is another matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longgone Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 2 hours ago, chasfh said: I would like to see a young pitcher be better than basically worst in the league, and I don't think that's asking so much. Perhaps you are expecting too little, understandable given our recent history as Tiger fans. I expect to let him develop before he's cast in stone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warning Track Power Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 9 hours ago, casimir said: Kenny Rogers 2.0? It's actually what I thought when it happened. one can dream right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 2 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: I don't see this move as deserving of any angst... IMO. More ennui than angst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 I am reading comments on Cody S’s Athletic article that signing Boyd is an Al Avila move. How can signing someone Al gave up on be an Al Avila move ? Isn’t it just the opposite? And 10 mil for a decent MLB starter in 2023 seems reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 (edited) 10 million for pre-injury Boyd is reasonable. It all depends on whether he can stay healthy. I am generally wary about pitchers and injuries. Edited December 2, 2022 by Tiger337 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: 10 million for pre-injury Boyd is reasonable. It all depends on whether he can stay healthy. I am generally wary about pitchers and injuries. At least it seems flexor tendon injury isn't regarded as potentially career threatening for pitchers - at least as far as they ever admitted with Boyd or Skubal. Boyd did make 88 starts in the 3 seasons prior to COVID. There are no risk free pitchers but up until the flexor I wouldn't have considered Boyd as particularly injury prone. I think there is at least as much question of whether his stuff will be good enough to win a starting spot. Of course maybe he had been pitching hurt for much of it, but I wasn't much impressed with his pitching in '20 or '21. The guy from 2018 or19 would be worth the money though.... Edited December 2, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAbbott Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: 10 million for pre-injury Boyd is reasonable. It all depends on whether he can stay healthy. I am generally wary about pitchers and injuries. This seems to be a calculated risk to me. As for pitchers and injuries, what is the percentage of pitchers injured requiring surgery each year? I would guess 30 to 35%, or roughly one out of every three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 I like Boyd. I was sorry to see him go. It's not a bad signing but he is a question mark on a team already full of question marks. There's still room for an established starter to be signed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 9 hours ago, mtutiger said: Yep. It is a quintessential Scott Harris Giants era signing. It has as much or more to do with his own judgment as it does Matty being a retread IMO. It's hard to compartmentalize that as fans, I get it, but it fits the pattern. Whether it works or not is another matter. Correct. It is a Scott Harris move. Calling it an Al Avila move is simply lazy and thoughtless. It is notable that Harris has signed Boyd twice. It doesn't mean that's necessarily good or bad, but it is kind of interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 7 hours ago, SoCalTiger said: ...And 10 mil for a decent MLB starter in 2023 seems reasonable. 5 hours ago, HeyAbbott said: This seems to be a calculated risk to me. As for pitchers and injuries, what is the percentage of pitchers injured requiring surgery each year? I would guess 30 to 35%, or roughly one out of every three. 1 hour ago, casimir said: Correct. It is a Scott Harris move. Calling it an Al Avila move is simply lazy and thoughtless. It is notable that Harris has signed Boyd twice. It doesn't mean that's necessarily good or bad, but it is kind of interesting. IMHO, I agree on all fronts. Yes, Harris will more than likely sign 1-2 more SPs, maybe for not as much (or one for as much?)... I am on board as long as it does not effect what is done with potential upgrades for position players. Where I (many of us) hope to see one longer term solution type acquired and another couple more shorter term types perhaps. All depends on how the market plays out and who is 'really' is open to coming to Detroit and at what price/cost. A week from now we may know a bit more 🙂 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 2, 2022 Author Share Posted December 2, 2022 8 hours ago, Tiger337 said: 10 million for pre-injury Boyd is reasonable. It all depends on whether he can stay healthy. I am generally wary about pitchers and injuries. Especially since the current practice is to Driveline pitchers in an effort to squeeze every last MPH out of their arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 Player’s market? That does not bode well for us and explains why Matty received $10M. That contract might be a bargain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 On 12/1/2022 at 7:26 AM, mtutiger said: Maybe Candy wasn't the biggest overall problem, but he was a problem who had a decision to be made contractually during this offseason. And they acted on it. While I see the other side, I am fine with the decision they made. And as free agency proved, at the end of the day, the league didn't feel he was a $7 million dollar player so I cannot blame the Tigers for wanting to move on and see if they can find something different. I see your point but I think he signed for $5 million with the Nationals. If the Tigers sign a FA 3rd baseman, he'll probably cost more with less production or bad defense. Or just put Zach Short at 3rd base, I'm sure he could outhit....nobody? Maybe they'll lower ticket prices since they're saving so much money? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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