Tiger337 Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 I don't care about Candelario not coming back. I just think it's inaccurate for people to be putting him in the same group as Reyes and the Castros. He was bad this year, but has shown in the past that he is capable of being a major league starter over the course of a full season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 4, 2022 Author Share Posted December 4, 2022 12 hours ago, Tenacious D said: DJ had over 3.0 last year. He’d more than make up for Candelario. I’d be fine with DJ for a year. Not as excited at the prospect of having him for four. Are the Yankees making him available? Would Scott Harris be OK paying him and running him out there every day at age 38 in 2026? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 4, 2022 Author Share Posted December 4, 2022 Bryan Reynolds would be an interesting add. He can certainly pound the ball. The questions Scott Harris would have are about his plate discipline, which took a dive this year, and his defense, which also took a dive. The former is probably reversible; the latter might be as well. Also, will he be comfortable abandoning center field and moving into left basically full-time? I think he’s also hoping for a long-term deal, so if he doesn’t get one from us in short order, is he going to ask through the media for a trade from us as well? I could see the Red Sox, Astros, Cubs, and Giants all being top suitors for him. Maybe even the Brewers, who have been going younger this winter so far. I wouldn’t count out the Yankees or Dodgers on him, either. They all could use a center fielder with a stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 11 hours ago, Tiger337 said: I don't care about Candelario not coming back. I just think it's inaccurate for people to be putting him in the same group as Reyes and the Castros. He was bad this year, but has shown in the past that he is capable of being a major league starter over the course of a full season. Agreed. And I don't like the idea of trading any ML talent for a different 3rd baseman. Or rolling the dice and signing a player to a long term contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 3 minutes ago, chasfh said: Bryan Reynolds would be an interesting add. He can certainly pound the ball. The questions Scott Harris would have are about his plate discipline, which took a dive this year, and his defense, which also took a dive. The former is probably reversible; the latter might be as well. Also, will he be comfortable abandoning center field and moving into left basically full-time? I think he’s also hoping for a long-term deal, so if he doesn’t get one from us in short order, is he going to ask through the media for a trade from us as well? I could see the Red Sox, Astros, Cubs, and Giants all being top suitors for him. Maybe even the Brewers, who have been going younger this winter so far. I wouldn’t count out the Yankees or Dodgers on him, either. They all could use a center fielder with a stick. Maybe CF will be open for him? It's going to take a huge package to get him, Pittsburgh isn't going to just give away a player who's under team control for a few years. Probably have to start with Greene and Soto. Still want Reynolds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 4, 2022 Author Share Posted December 4, 2022 1 minute ago, Sports_Freak said: Maybe CF will be open for him? It's going to take a huge package to get him, Pittsburgh isn't going to just give away a player who's under team control for a few years. Probably have to start with Greene and Soto. Still want Reynolds? I don’t think we make Riley available for his CF replacement unless we are one player away from the division. I don’t think we do it when we’re starting another 90+-loss season in the face. I suppose one possibility is move Riley to left to make room for Reynolds (thus trading someone else for him), but I don’t know if I like that solution. Riley was better in the field than Reynolds was this year. If Riley were merely a 55-gallon drum sitting in CF, i would think differently of that possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 11 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: Maybe CF will be open for him? It's going to take a huge package to get him, Pittsburgh isn't going to just give away a player who's under team control for a few years. Probably have to start with Greene and Soto. Still want Reynolds? I wouldn't move Greene for Reynolds. I'm good with moving Soto, but I don't think he has all that much trade value because of his awful walk rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 4, 2022 Author Share Posted December 4, 2022 Maybe Harris has something up his sleeve, but otherwise, I’m not sure how we are going to unlock impact major leaguers through trades without giving up multiple single-digit Pipeline guys along with Riley or perhaps TORK! I’m not even sure any of the pitchers, like Manning, could get us much back in the way of big leaguers who can help right now. If it’s starters we want, I’m thinking we have to sign either free agents with sleeper potential, or second-tier free agents for first-tier money and years along with generous out clauses. Either way, Harris’s honeymoon ends this week. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 What an indictment of Al Avila. A guy is out there who would be a perfect fit for the Tigers, but our organization is so bad that we can't possibly cobble together a package to get him without involving our only bona fide hitting prospect (who only hit .253/.321/.682, which sadly is the best player we have). All those years of high draft picks and nothing to show for it. If it wasn't for J.D. Martinez.........what would he have had (hitting-wise)? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. But at least we got Dawel Lugo (who's done at 27). He was Randy Smith-level bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 Not sure why Reynolds is asking for a trade—could be a personality conflict or just sick of playing on a shitty team. If it’s the latter, he wouldn’t be happy here, either. We don’t have the assets to get a player of his caliber anyway. Harris is gonna have to McGuyver this roster for the next couple of seasons. Is Scott Hatteberg still playing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 1 hour ago, chasfh said: Maybe Harris has something up his sleeve, but otherwise, I’m not sure how we are going to unlock impact major leaguers through trades without giving up multiple single-digit Pipeline guys along with Riley or perhaps TORK! I’m not even sure any of the pitchers, like Manning, could get us much back in the way of big leaguers who can help right now. If it’s starters we want, I’m thinking we have to sign either free agents with sleeper potential, or second-tier free agents for first-tier money and years along with generous out clauses. Either way, Harris’s honeymoon ends this week. I agree. After waiting so long for the rebuild to be over and then having the GM declare it over, I don't want to wait for endless rebuilding. Harris was quoted in the sports page today as saying he's more than will to take a risk. Taking a risk would be to keep your starting 3rd baseman for a measly 7 million dollars. If you end up signing a different 3rd baseman, trade him and pick up part of his salary. Do Tiger fans really want to trade away ML talent to get a 3rd baseman, possibly with less offense, less defense and a bigger salary? How many years are we going to be lied to? I get it, Candy really struggled in 2022. Yes, an upgrade would be great. But patience is limited and not having a replacement on the roster just makes not paying him look like a stupid and cheap move. It's telling the fans...hey we're not going to win anyway so we may as well not pay anyone. But buy some tickets now, we need the money. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longgone Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 3 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: I agree. After waiting so long for the rebuild to be over and then having the GM declare it over, I don't want to wait for endless rebuilding. Harris was quoted in the sports page today as saying he's more than will to take a risk. Taking a risk would be to keep your starting 3rd baseman for a measly 7 million dollars. If you end up signing a different 3rd baseman, trade him and pick up part of his salary. Do Tiger fans really want to trade away ML talent to get a 3rd baseman, possibly with less offense, less defense and a bigger salary? How many years are we going to be lied to? I get it, Candy really struggled in 2022. Yes, an upgrade would be great. But patience is limited and not having a replacement on the roster just makes not paying him look like a stupid and cheap move. It's telling the fans...hey we're not going to win anyway so we may as well not pay anyone. But buy some tickets now, we need the money. Might want to give it a little time. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 39 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: I agree. After waiting so long for the rebuild to be over and then having the GM declare it over, I don't want to wait for endless rebuilding. Harris was quoted in the sports page today as saying he's more than will to take a risk. Taking a risk would be to keep your starting 3rd baseman for a measly 7 million dollars. If you end up signing a different 3rd baseman, trade him and pick up part of his salary. Do Tiger fans really want to trade away ML talent to get a 3rd baseman, possibly with less offense, less defense and a bigger salary? How many years are we going to be lied to? I get it, Candy really struggled in 2022. Yes, an upgrade would be great. But patience is limited and not having a replacement on the roster just makes not paying him look like a stupid and cheap move. It's telling the fans...hey we're not going to win anyway so we may as well not pay anyone. But buy some tickets now, we need the money. Respectfully disagree with your interpretation of risk. Holding on to the same player, who you have control over, is taking very little risk. Dumping that same underperforming player with the idea that you have an entire offseason to replace that anemic performance is really not much of a risk, either, as Candy set an incredibly low bar to improve upon. And it’s a lazy and uninformed take to suggest that the Tigers are going on the cheap because they refused to give a raise to a crappy employee. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 44 minutes ago, Longgone said: Might want to give it a little time. Yeah, it's only been 39 seasons since our last championship. What's another 7 or 8 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 I have no idea what Harris will do which is a very stark contrast to Al Avila who was very predictable and would probably be done by now. I don't think he will trade Riley Greene but everybody else is possible. Problem is, as stated on this board, we have few trade assets. Soto was and All Star but I think he is closer to being a future DFA candidate than to bringing back a major piece in trade. Jimenez has only one year of control but really good numbers in 2022. Lange is probably our highest bullpen asset. Tork is selling low. Skuball and Mize are hurt. Manning had arm/health issues in 2022. Can we trade ERod or does he have a no trade ? Also his "event" last year probably hinders his trade value but his price tag of 15 mil ish isn't too bad. Turnbull ? Meadows has all kinds of issues depressing his value. Despite Henning's latest glowing article about our minor league infielders and McCoskey's article about us being "well armed to trade" we have very little to offer. Maybe Jackson Jobe ? So I agree Harris's honeymoon is over but he will need way more time than one winter meetings to make an impact. Hope he can find a way to add at least one foundation piece this off season plus some fillers to make 2023 fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 4 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: Respectfully disagree with your interpretation of risk. Holding on to the same player, who you have control over, is taking very little risk. Dumping that same underperforming player with the idea that you have an entire offseason to replace that anemic performance is really not much of a risk, either, as Candy set an incredibly low bar to improve upon. And it’s a lazy and uninformed take to suggest that the Tigers are going on the cheap because they refused to give a raise to a crappy employee. How about 1st base, 2nd base, SS, catcher and the entire outfield? The only reason we didn't lose 110 games is because our pitching outperformed expectations. But yeah, let's replace our 3rd baseman, with nobody on the roster to play there. Jeezzzzz... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 4, 2022 Author Share Posted December 4, 2022 57 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: IAfter waiting so long for the rebuild to be over and then having the GM declare it over, I don't want to wait for endless rebuilding. Harris was quoted in the sports page today as saying he's more than will to take a risk. Taking a risk would be to keep your starting 3rd baseman for a measly 7 million dollars. If you end up signing a different 3rd baseman, trade him and pick up part of his salary. Do Tiger fans really want to trade away ML talent to get a 3rd baseman, possibly with less offense, less defense and a bigger salary? Nicely said. I also agree it would have been the riskier move to keep Candelario because the fans would have been howling about it all winter, creating more noise around the organization than stakeholders typically like. The far easier path with far less friction was to just let him go and take our chances on the open market, or even going with internal options that benefit from being known quantities that many fans will accept. Again, all moot if Harris has something up his sleeve for third base. Dumping Candelario for nothing because he had one bad year after two very good years is practically the very definition of selling low. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, chasfh said: e, I’m not sure how we are going to unlock impact major leaguers through trades without giving up multiple single-digit Pipeline guys along with Riley or perhaps TORK! I You so the one thing Avila never did, you take a bad contract that come with a good prospect. It's about the only way you can effectively buy draft picks with cash in baseball. Edited December 4, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 Kreidler was excellent defensively and generated more value in 24 games at third than Candy did in 124 games. I think Kreidler probably a utility player at this point and they should add an established player for now at third. The time for Candy to be great was this year AND next year to earn the most money of his life but he completely failed this year. He cost himself millions of dollars. He didn't improve all year. Something was seriously wrong. When he personally had to be at his best, he couldn't do it. Why should the Tigers pay him for less than his best? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 3 minutes ago, Tigermojo said: Why should the Tigers pay him for less than his best? If you follow the flawed logic, it’s because we don’t have his replacement already identified by December 4th. Which probably means we won’t be able to find a suitable successor. We’re completely screwed now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 4, 2022 Author Share Posted December 4, 2022 13 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: If you follow the flawed logic, it’s because we don’t have his replacement already identified by December 4th. Which probably means we won’t be able to find a suitable successor. We’re completely screwed now. Said nobody ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 18 hours ago, chasfh said: Again, all moot if Harris has something up his sleeve for third base. I do think we should continue to keep an open mind - to an extent it seems like some are already making judgments about this offseason when it has barely even begun for all teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 Stavenhagen from the top-rope with a real hot-take on his pod: trading ERod. With the idea being that he's likely to opt-out given how overheated the starting pitching market appears to be at the moment. Despite the need for pitching, it actually makes some sense as a means to jump start the upgrade at their various needs on the position player side. Although it's one area where all the pitching injuries are an issue and it would likely require the need for another starter to be signed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 21 hours ago, Sports_Freak said: Yeah, it's only been 39 seasons since our last championship. What's another 7 or 8 years? Your frustration is understandable, but the previous administration failed the last six years. It will take a while to fix it. Hopefully not 7 or 8 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 When the Wings won in 1997 there was a big fuss about the 42 year wait..... that's not long for the Tigers unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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