mtutiger Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 30 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: You can say the 20 are being intransigent, but so is McCarthy's refusal open the door to a different candidacy and sitting through repeated unproductive votes where he isn't moving the process at all either. This is definitely what have trouble countenancing... He's not entitled to the job anymore than anyone else in that caucus yet it kinda feels like he feels that way and his supporters do as well. Although the longer this goes on, the more I wonder if anyone in that caucus can get across the finish line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smr-nj Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 It’s comical. (In a sad, stupid way) No one has an actual plan on how to make anything happen to actually bring it to an ending. They just keep doing the same thing. Over. And over. X6. Playing checkers on a Star Trek five dimensional chess board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 15 minutes ago, smr-nj said: It’s comical. (In a sad, stupid way) No one has an actual plan on how to make anything happen to actually bring it to an ending. They just keep doing the same thing. Over. And over. X6. Playing checkers on a Star Trek five dimensional chess board. Some play chess Some play checkers they play with themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 Seeing a lot of talk about the Congresional Leadership PAC and Club for Growth PAC coming together on an agreement to make McKartney the speaker. Dark money is disgusting in this country. I read this book not too long ago. It's frightening how entrenched this crap is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 At least this is producing quality meme content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 Talk about the tail wagging the dog... Jeebus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: ex Rep Jolly made a good point on MSNBC though. Just because McCarthy has the majority, even a large one, of the caucus, doesn't mean he in someway 'deserves' the speakership. You need 218 and he doesn't have them. Many other members might be able to find a majority but not 218. What is really going on is that the caucus is so devoid of internal leadership and maturity, that they are stuck hammering their heads against the wall between two bad alternatives instead of working up the internal negotiation process needed to get to the needed consensus. You can say the 20 are being intransigent, but so is McCarthy's refusal open the door to a different candidacy and sitting through repeated unproductive votes where he isn't moving the process at all either. No... The worst case is McCarthy rolls over for the Fascist Caucus, puts Gaetz as the chair of the Armed Services, pulls his PAC back from boosting his preferred Republican candidates (allowing more Fascist Republicans an easy route to nominations) in uncontested Republican district races (in the future). Oh, he's already done that last one. And more bad/ stupid giveaways to Fascists who are going to do nothing but shit all over our Democracy in every possible way they can think of anyways. That's worse than two bad alternatives. The bad one rolls over to the worst of their party in a democracy GIVEAWAY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 12 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Talk about the tail wagging the dog... Jeebus Exactly the fucking worst case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 3 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: No... The worst case is McCarthy rolls over for the Fascist Caucus, puts Gaetz as the chair of the Armed Services, pulls his PAC back from boosting his preferred Republican candidates (allowing more Fascist Republicans an easy route to nominations) in uncontested Republican district races (in the future). Oh, he's already done that last one. And more bad/ stupid giveaways to Fascists who are going to do nothing but shit all over our Democracy in every possible way they can think of anyways. That's worse than two bad alternatives. The bad one rolls over to the worst of their party in a democracy GIVEAWAY. I don't think anything good can come of any of this in the end. The FC 20 are idiots but the other 202 are mostly spineless anti-democratic fascist enablers. No hope from having any aspect of the House GOP party in control of anything. But they have the numbers so one way or the other they are going to have control. And they will surely make a muck of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Exactly the fucking worst case. Look at this this way, it just means McCarthy won't be speaker for very long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 The thing about these concessions is - frankly, we still don't know if it the degree that the changes will even close the gap. McCarthy has sold the farm and liquidated all of his other assets, and it *still* may not be enough to win the job. On one hand, one imagines this is the best it's gonna get for the 20, but OTOH, there's a percentage of that group who are intractable and may be impossible for McCarthy to overcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 This is the other space to watch... now that he's given up more concessions, how does his other flank feel about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 11 minutes ago, mtutiger said: The thing about these concessions is - frankly, we still don't know if it the degree that the changes will even close the gap. McCarthy has sold the farm and liquidated all of his other assets, and it *still* may not be enough to win the job. On one hand, one imagines this is the best it's gonna get for the 20, but OTOH, there's a percentage of that group who are intractable and may be impossible for McCarthy to overcome. The logic (not sure we should admit the premise that the GOP conference is capable of logic, but be that as it may....) if you extend McCarthy's argument to the 202, it is that he must be elected otherwise the 202 is allowing itself to be 'held hostage' by the 20. But if he gives the 20 the ability to collapse his speakership at any time, then he is still allowing the 20 the hold the body hostage. So there really isn't any *logic* under which his speakership can make sense at this point. In fact, all he he is doing is making it more difficult the person who comes next, whether that is in the immediate case or when the 20 eventually force McCarthy out anyway (1st debt ceiling call?) who will need to walk back McCarthy's concessions to have any hope of succeeding themselves, at which point we probably get another edition of a similar dog and pony show. What kind of idiot voters elect people to serve the government who only want to kill it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 How soon, or has it started yet, does the Fox crowd start to blame democrats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 CSPAN just told me that Debbie Stabenow isn't going to run again for Senate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 this is from Atlantic. You cannot negotiate with people who stand for nothing but chaos. The Republican rebellion is rooted in a giant inferiority complex: We know we’re not popular, we know a lot of people think we’re jerks, but we’ll show everyone that we can paralyze this country and its institutions using the machinery of government. Democracy, process, lawmaking, and governing? All of that is for saps; doing it is how you end up becoming Eric Cantor or Paul Ryan. The GOP rebels have every intention of staying in Washington and staying in power—even if “power” amounts to little more than sitting in the wreckage of the Capitol and keeping warm by burning the furniture. Win or lose, McCarthy never had a chance at being a true master of the House. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 6 minutes ago, pfife said: CSPAN just told me that Debbie Stabenow isn't going to run again for Senate. "I seen that" in the Detroit News push alert. I remember when she upset Abraham in 2000. I think she would have beaten Engler in 1994 if Dems didn't nominate Wolpe. I think that was when the UAW still had some stronger sway in the party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 100% Pure Swamp A back-room deal to secure more votes for Kevin, by getting PACs to agree to not spend in primaries to support normals against GQP nut jobs. Which has nothing to do with being SOTH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 (edited) One problem, which a couple of commentators brought up, is that there is just enough truth to some of the rebels' complaints to give them more credibility with some marginal crazies that might otherwise get peeled back to the mainstream. I can understand the frustration of Rep in a Congress where they basically are only there to rubber stamp decisions by their leadership. Why would a person serious about legislation run for the House where members haven't been allowed to offer amendments to legislation to take an open vote since Hastert? And we can certainly blame the Democratic House leadership almost as much for allowing these rules, which were started by the GOP, to become institutionalized instead of rolling them back once they were back in power. I am old enough to remember when Bills could pass the House with easy majorities made up mostly of the minority party because the legislation still commanded an overall majority. Such a vote is not even allowed in the House by either side anymore. Is it any wonder under such rules that partisanship dominates everything? The rules of the game matter, but few people are interested in them as political issues so this is what we get. Edited January 5, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 (edited) plus I don't see how the CFG deal moves the 20. They are largely free agent campaigners with their own funding mechanisms in districts where they are not particularly worried about leadership trying to screw them. Edited January 5, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 9 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: plus I don't see how the CFG deal moves the 20. They are largely free agent campaigners with their own funding mechanisms in districts where they are not particularly worried about leadership trying to screw them. Exactly. All this horse trading, but if it doesn't get him to 218 (absent present votes), it's all for nothing. 46 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: The logic (not sure we should admit the premise that the GOP conference is capable of logic, but be that as it may....) if you extend McCarthy's argument to the 202, it is that he must be elected otherwise the 202 is allowing itself to be 'held hostage' by the 20. But if he gives the 20 the ability to collapse his speakership at any time, then he is still allowing the 20 the hold the body hostage. So there really isn't any *logic* under which his speakership can make sense at this point. In fact, all he he is doing is making it more difficult the person who comes next, whether that is in the immediate case or when the 20 eventually force McCarthy out anyway (1st debt ceiling call?) who will need to walk back McCarthy's concessions to have any hope of succeeding themselves, at which point we probably get another edition of a similar dog and pony show. What kind of idiot voters elect people to serve the government who only want to kill it? It's almost like he just values having "Former Speaker" on his resume at this point lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 39 minutes ago, pfife said: CSPAN just told me that Debbie Stabenow isn't going to run again for Senate. It's not a safe seat by any means, but I commend Stabenow for knowing when it is time to pass the torch. A lot of pols (like Feinstein) don't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 Sean is not happy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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