2023 NBA Draft Prelude

[Shinzaki]

In an era where spacing and threes dominates...it's amazing that it's so hard to find players who can shoot three's at a decent rate.

 

Wemby would be an amazing addition to what we have.   If we fall...depending how far...Hendricks is an interesting player, as is Gradey Dyck  (I used a y in his last name as it wouldn't let me use an I)

Edited May 9, 2023 by Shinzaki

[Deleterious]

If you like your prospects on the athletic side.

 

[Betrayer]

Cam has been moving up my board and the twins have been moving down it.

[Deleterious]

I don't understand what he does.  Doesn't score much.  Doesn't pass at all.  Plays zero defense.  I don't get it.

[Betrayer]

Excellent finisher

Very good off ball player and cutter

Catch and shoot 40% from 3

Good driver

Nice multi-positional defensive upside due to high strength and athleticism

Very good rebounder

Younger than most of the other prospects 

https://youtu.be/2DOM_ROCxUA

Outside of Wemby all I see in this draft lotto are high impact role players rather than all stars. So I’m not saying this kid is a future star, just that he’s in the conversation at 4 or 5. 

[Deleterious]

We are probably on the same page if you just consider him a role player.

[NYLion]

17 hours ago, Deleterious said:

I don't understand what he does.  Doesn't score much.  Doesn't pass at all.  Plays zero defense.  I don't get it.

I don't either. He's a more athletic Saddiq Bey without the 3 point volume.

Also, he has good straightline athleticism but he's not very fluid unlike Miller who I think has a lot more fluidity. The Basketball IQ also seems to be lacking with Whitmore. I'd take either of the Thompson twins before him.

[Betrayer]

The twins are playing against high school age players in a gimmick league that's no different than a pickup game. They're 20 years old to Whitmore's 18, meaning they've had 2 more years of development and still they're not just poor shooters, they're non-shooters. Most of their points come in transition and they need the ball in their hands because it's all about their athleticism against garbage competition. Fun as his dunks can be, I don't need another Hami.

I'm taking Whitmore over either twin. He'll still give you some fantastic dunks, but he can also play bully-ball, guard multiple positions, shoot the three, grab boards, and he's shown all of that against solid competition.

The Saddiq comparison is terrible. Saddiq can't jump over a phonebook and can't finish at the rim where Whitmore was one of the best finishers in college and is a very good athlete. Better comps I've seen are Miles Bridges, Aaron Gordon, and Anthony Edwards due to the combination of power and athleticism.

[NYLion]

I said he's a more athletic Bey. Low IQ, weak defensively, tries to use strength to bully through people, questionable handle, inconsistent shooter, much better leaper than Bey and quicker but stiff lateral movement similar to Bey. His athleticism gives him a higher ceiling but I don't see any above average areas of his game outside of the athleticism.

Bridges, Gordon and Edwards were more fluid athletes than Whitmore, Edwards and Bridges were more polished scorers, Gordon far better defensively. Whitmore was a role player on a bad Villanova team, it's almost all projection with this guy and I see no standout skill.  I don't care much for the twins either but I see more functional athleticism and better defensive chops with the two.

[Betrayer]

Calling someone an athletic Bey is like saying a shooting Hami. You're now talking about a completely different player. Also, Bridges was 20 when drafted and played 2 years in college, compared to 18 for Cam so I expect that he would be more polished. As for defense, he showed the mental lapses of youth, but most analysts project Cam's defense and multi-positional versality on that end to be very good.

Also, I don't see how you can say "it's all projection with this guy" and then turn around and say you'd take the twins over him. Those two are the most projection based picks in this entire lottery and it's not even close. If you want to plant your flag on upside and projections because of sheer athleticism, then I can understand (and still disagree) with that take. But Whitmore is far less of a projection pick and it's not even close. He has a solid floor that he displayed against actual competition and they have a resume of pick up games.

Again, I only see high end role players after Victor, so I'm not projecting any of these kids as Stars. And yes, at some point you have to take a chance on the twins athleticism and hope they aren't just Hami after the hefty 4+ years of development it's going to take, but for me that's down around pick 7-10, not top 5 where we'll be picking.

 

[casimir]

2 hours ago, Betrayer said:

can't jump over a phonebook

Take it easy, dude.  Some of us are similarly afflicted.

[NYLion]

57 minutes ago, Betrayer said:

Calling someone an athletic Bey is like saying a shooting Hami. You're now talking about a completely different player. Also, Bridges was 20 when drafted and played 2 years in college, compared to 18 for Cam so I expect that he would be more polished. As for defense, he showed the mental lapses of youth, but most analysts project Cam's defense and multi-positional versality on that end to be very good.

Also, I don't see how you can say "it's all projection with this guy" and then turn around and say you'd take the twins over him. Those two are the most projection based picks in this entire lottery and it's not even close. If you want to plant your flag on upside and projections because of sheer athleticism, then I can understand (and still disagree) with that take. But Whitmore is far less of a projection pick and it's not even close. He has a solid floor that he displayed against actual competition and they have a resume of pick up games.

Again, I only see high end role players after Victor, so I'm not projecting any of these kids as Stars. And yes, at some point you have to take a chance on the twins athleticism and hope they aren't just Hami after the hefty 4+ years of development it's going to take, but for me that's down around pick 7-10, not top 5 where we'll be picking.

 

I am planting my flag on upside with the twins compared to Whitmore. He's mostly projection but I don't see any high end projectable skills whereas I see the twins as also being mostly projection but with more athleticism, defensive ability and vision in the case of Amen (based mostly on highlight videos and scouting reports so take with a grain of salt). I see Whitmore having a higher floor but a more modest ceiling.

I do see others with star potential. Henderson, Miller, even GG Jackson who has that combo of size and high end scoring potential. If we're looking for a 3 and D guy, I'd say that Walker and Hendricks are better options than Whitmore or the twins. 

 

[buddha]

1 hour ago, casimir said:

Take it easy, dude.  Some of us are similarly afflicted.

i can jump over the pierre south dakota phone book.  anything larger than that i have trouble with.

[Betrayer]

3 hours ago, casimir said:

Take it easy, dude.  Some of us are similarly afflicted.

It's something my friends and I used to say about Corliss Williamson when he was a Piston. Maybe it needs to be updated for the next generation but, "can't jump over a cellphone" just seems a bit extreme  😄 

[casimir]

15 hours ago, buddha said:

i can jump over the pierre south dakota phone book.  anything larger than that i have trouble with.

 

13 hours ago, Betrayer said:

It's something my friends and I used to say about Corliss Williamson when he was a Piston. Maybe it needs to be updated for the next generation but, "can't jump over a cellphone" just seems a bit extreme  😄 

OK, boomers.  At what point does "can't jump over the phonebook" lose its meaning?  Or has it already?

[Betrayer]

4 hours ago, casimir said:

 

OK, boomers.  At what point does "can't jump over the phonebook" lose its meaning?  Or has it already?

I'm GenX, but we were always the latchkey, forgotten generation anyway. It's always Boomers vs Millenials/GenZ these days, like we never existed. I suppose it's a good thing to be left out of all the arguments and finger pointing 😄 

But yea, I think if you said "can't jump over a phonebook" to a Gen Z they would look at you with a very confused expression on their face.

[Deleterious]

 

[Betrayer]

I hope Ben can do it again. 

[Deleterious]

Hollingers article this morning talks about his top 20 guys in the draft.  Talking about Victor he mentions the amount of guys 7'3" or taller that have played 1000 games.  Zero.  Mark Eaton has played the most at 875.

Not a ton of guys who were that tall so it is a small sample size obviously.  

One interesting thing.  I saw he has Cam Whitmore #3 on his board ahead of Miller.  

[RandyMarsh]

If we get the number 1 pick Victor will be Greg Oden if we don't he will be a taller and longer Giannis.

[buddha]

27 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

Hollingers article this morning talks about his top 20 guys in the draft.  Talking about Victor he mentions the amount of guys 7'3" or taller that have played 1000 games.  Zero.  Mark Eaton has played the most at 875.

Not a ton of guys who were that tall so it is a small sample size obviously.  

One interesting thing.  I saw he has Cam Whitmore #3 on his board ahead of Miller.  

who would you like the pistons to pick in the draft?

[Deleterious]

4 minutes ago, buddha said:

who would you like the pistons to pick in the draft?

1. Victor

2. Scoot if they pick #2.  I would consider trading back if they can find someone to do it with.  I think someone like Hendricks + whatever else they get might be worth more than Scoot to Detroit.

3. Amen

4. Taylor Hendricks

5. There are like 5 guys that could go here and I don't feel are all that different.  Ausar, Gradey ****, Brandon Miller, Black, Walker, Whitmore.

[buddha]

i like how you cant write out gradey's last name.

i want them to take victor and then go for the best 3 and d wing they can find if they dont get #1.

how does scoot fit on the pistons?  a point guard with handle who isnt a great shooter?  do we think he becomes chris paul?

what could they reasonably deal #2 for?  does philly decide to rebuild if harden leaves?  do you go for embiid and see if they bite?

Edited May 16, 2023 by buddha

[buddha]

is scoot a ja morant type player without the gun fetish?

[RandyMarsh]

Theres always the hope that Scoot can develop an outside shot, theres been a few example of guys lately who couldn't shoot coming into the league but ended up developing the outside shot.