2021 Postseason thread

[Archie]

I'm glad it's over and happy that the Braves won.  Hopefully the owners and MLBPA will have an agreement before December 1 and we can see who Al can sign for next year.  Unless Al gets drunk out on his boat I think we could be disappointed in the signings.

[Archie]

 

2 minutes ago, casimir said:

Altuve?  I thought there was a close play involving Brantley.  Freeman fielded the ball, Fried raced over to cover 1B but never gave a look to Freeman to toss him the ball until too late.  Fried never touched 1B and Brantley stepped on Fried's ankle, but not 1B.  That doesn't constitute an out.  The camera never showed Fried tag or touch the base, and presumably Brantley touched it first after running through 1B and then returning to 1B to ready himself for the next batter.  So, it could very well be that the Braves' replay guy never saw a visual that Brantley (or 1B) was actually tagged by Fried.

It was Brantley. When I wrote that they were talking about Altuve and I had that in my head.  When I realized my error it was too late to edit and you can't delete posts so it was engrained in forum history.  

[Archie]

5 minutes ago, casimir said:

Altuve?  I thought there was a close play involving Brantley.  Freeman fielded the ball, Fried raced over to cover 1B but never gave a look to Freeman to toss him the ball until too late.  Fried never touched 1B and Brantley stepped on Fried's ankle, but not 1B.  That doesn't constitute an out.  The camera never showed Fried tag or touch the base, and presumably Brantley touched it first after running through 1B and then returning to 1B to ready himself for the next batter.  So, it could very well be that the Braves' replay guy never saw a visual that Brantley (or 1B) was actually tagged by Fried.

Also, after Brantley stepped on Fried instead of the bag it look like Fried did hit the bag with his other foot before Brantley got back. The announcers thought it would have been an out had it been reviewed too.  It looked like they didn't watch the replay long enough to see Fried touch the base but in the end it didn't matter.

[casimir]

Just now, Archie said:

Also, after Brantley stepped on Fried instead of the bag it look like Fried did hit the bag with his other foot before Brantley got back. The announcers thought it would have been an out had it been reviewed too.  It looked like they didn't watch the replay long enough to see Fried touch the base but in the end it didn't matter.

I did not see a replay where Fried touched 1B, but they may have indeed showed it.  I'm just going with what I saw.  What I saw was the stepping on the ankle and that was it.  Fried certainly knows he was stepped on, and probably knows he didn't touch 1B, and probably assumed that Brantley touched 1B with his other foot (bad assumption).

[Tigeraholic1]

Drew Smyly joins Justin Verlander, Max Scherzer, Anibal Sanchez and Rick Porcello as former Tigers starters who won a World Series title down the road. David Price, for whom Smyly was traded in 2014, also on the list.

[Motor City Sonics]

The team with the fewest wins of all the playoff teams, wins it all.    Just get in, get hot (and it doesn't hurt to have great pitching).   

[oblong]

2 hours ago, casimir said:

I did not see a replay where Fried touched 1B, but they may have indeed showed it.  I'm just going with what I saw.  What I saw was the stepping on the ankle and that was it.  Fried certainly knows he was stepped on, and probably knows he didn't touch 1B, and probably assumed that Brantley touched 1B with his other foot (bad assumption).

I'm not an expert but isn't there an interference issue at play too?   Fried's leg was blocking the closest part of the bag and the runner didn't have access to it. His leg was straddling the entire front side of the base.

 

[casimir]

16 minutes ago, oblong said:

I'm not an expert but isn't there an interference issue at play too?   Fried's leg was blocking the closest part of the bag and the runner didn't have access to it. His leg was straddling the entire front side of the base.

 

I don't think interference or obstruction or the running lane or any of that was brought up last night.  And now that I think about it, given where Brantley's foot landed on Fried's ankle, I think he still would have ended up short of the base if there was no contact.  I agree with you that Fried's foot appeared to be in front of the base, ie, in between the line from home plate to the base.

#saftey1stbasein2022

[oblong]

27 minutes ago, casimir said:

I don't think interference or obstruction or the running lane or any of that was brought up last night.  And now that I think about it, given where Brantley's foot landed on Fried's ankle, I think he still would have ended up short of the base if there was no contact.  I agree with you that Fried's foot appeared to be in front of the base, ie, in between the line from home plate to the base.

#saftey1stbasein2022

I don't know the rule but I would think once the path is blocked then you don't try to infer what would have happened as the runner had to make some kind of adjustment.   I don't know.  Was just surprised that they didn't bring that up.  Maybe I'm wrong, like I said, I don't know the rulebook.

 

[casimir]

2 hours ago, oblong said:

I don't know the rule but I would think once the path is blocked then you don't try to infer what would have happened as the runner had to make some kind of adjustment.   I don't know.  Was just surprised that they didn't bring that up.  Maybe I'm wrong, like I said, I don't know the rulebook.

 

I don't know.  I think FOX was too fixated on the stepping on the ankle.  But they had some time to get someone cracking into the rule book because there was a slight delay with Fried's ankle.

[oblong]

I mean it did cross my mind that despite being a HOFer, Smoltz seems dumb and Buck is waiting to tell us about the Cowboys or Aaron Rodgers.  But I didn't see anything on the twitter either.

 

 

[casimir]

28 minutes ago, oblong said:

I mean it did cross my mind that despite being a HOFer, Smoltz seems dumb and Buck is waiting to tell us about the Cowboys or Aaron Rodgers.  But I didn't see anything on the twitter either.

 

 

I wonder how many behind the scenes producers/helpers they have and if any of them came up with the question?

[gehringer_2]

5 hours ago, oblong said:

I don't know the rule but I would think once the path is blocked then you don't try to infer what would have happened as the runner had to make some kind of adjustment.   I don't know.  Was just surprised that they didn't bring that up.  Maybe I'm wrong, like I said, I don't know the rulebook.

 

so if what I just read is correct, once the 1b and runner both miss the bag, it's not enough for the 1b to just step on the bag, it becomes a tag play. To get the out, Fried either had to tag Brantley before he returned to the base after running by, or the Braves had to do a regular appeal play where the pitcher goes the rubber  - steps off etc and they ask for a ruling that Brantley missed the base. The didn't do either so they forfeited their chance to get the out called by not doing either of the correct procedural options. If they had gone to replay all it would have proved is that Fried didn't tag Brantley.

 

https://larrybrownsports.com/baseball/video-braves-challenge-max-fried-michael-brantley-first/586498

Edited November 3, 2021 by gehringer_2

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, oblong said:

I mean it did cross my mind that despite being a HOFer, Smoltz seems dumb and Buck is waiting to tell us about the Cowboys or Aaron Rodgers.  But I didn't see anything on the twitter either.

 

 

it did strike me that once it looked like there would be no game 7 Fox's attention did seem to shift to football.   🙄

[Tenacious D]

6 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

The team with the fewest wins of all the playoff teams, wins it all.    Just get in, get hot (and it doesn't hurt to have great pitching).   

this is why I'm a bit bullish for the Tigers in a few years.  We should have the pitching and some interesting bats to score a few runs.

I was thinking about this earlier--I can't recall a previous postseason with so many/any bullpen games.  Almost every team deployed that this offseason.  

[gehringer_2]

Just now, Tenacious D said:

I was thinking about this earlier--I can't recall a previous postseason with so many/any bullpen games.  Almost every team deployed that this offseason.  

absolutely. It was quite strange. The traditional playoff team's dilemma is usually which regular starters give up their role because you don't need 5 in the players. The Braves were pretty much down to 2 starters and they still managed to win.

[gehringer_2]

Smoltz did return to one observation several times that I think may be spot on and maybe is more generally applicable they he even gives it credit for  - which is that maybe on the reasons we are seeing this huge shift in the way managers handle pitching and the decreasing value of starters is nothing more than the familiarity factor. There used to be fewer teams and each team had fewer pitchers. In particular for starters, most teams a Lolich or Gibson faced knew them really well. So you really had to have a lot of tools in the toolbox to have been a successful starter.  There are so many team and each team has twice as many pitchers, todays batters just never get familiar with the guys they are facing - esp the relievers - this gives relievers a huge advantage compared to the 'old days'. All a reliever has to do is look different and that can get him through as many innings as any other team will see him for. In that calculus coming in fresh and strong begins to mean more than not being a pitcher with a good variety of pitches. 

The only question is why it took baseball so many years after expansion and pitching staff increases to actually start managing to current conditions. Probably because it takes a long time for the culture in coaching and management to change. Look at how long the 3 pt shot existed before basketball finally started being played to take full advantage of it - it was decades.

[Tigeraholic1]

8 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

absolutely. It was quite strange. The traditional playoff team's dilemma is usually which regular starters give up their role because you don't need 5 in the players. The Braves were pretty much down to 2 starters and they still managed to win.

We saw AJ do that all year here in Detroit. We did it out of neccesity and or pitch count restrictions. This could be the future regular season rotation approach. Pitchers need less rest between appearances less stress on arms.

[chasfh]

 

 

[RandyMarsh]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

 

 

I guess that leaves Fister as the odd man out. I see that he was with the Red Sox in 2017, if only he stayed with them one more year. 

[oblong]

15 hours ago, chasfh said:

 

 

I don't think it's a big mystery.  They didn't have a good bullpen and the lineup was not that strong. Our big guns were dreadful on the bases and we had too many holes in the lineup.  2014 was kind of an off year for Verlander with his injury.  Sanchez/Porcello/Smyly winning rings is non eventful. They were on good teams.  

[chasfh]

36 minutes ago, oblong said:

I don't think it's a big mystery.  They didn't have a good bullpen and the lineup was not that strong. Our big guns were dreadful on the bases and we had too many holes in the lineup.  2014 was kind of an off year for Verlander with his injury.  Sanchez/Porcello/Smyly winning rings is non eventful. They were on good teams.  

So, what you’re saying is that it’s not a good strategy to put all your eggs in the starting pitching basket? That we need something more to support that than a couple of big boppers in the batting order, and a wing and a prayer in the ‘pen?

Interesting … 🤔

[sabretooth]

On 11/3/2021 at 4:50 PM, chasfh said:

 

 

Yep.....this organization ushered a bunch of talent out the door, tanked for four years, and now we are supposed to hope that the three about-ready-to-go stars that we have as a result of all of the mega-losing will be the driving force behind a cheap winning team in a couple of years, maybe in 2022. 

We could have had a winning team over the last 5 years, with a reasonable salary structure.  A total lack of imagination and competence in our ownership and GM/FO caused the last 5 years of losing.

Edited November 5, 2021 by sabretooth

[gehringer_2]

11 hours ago, chasfh said:

So, what you’re saying is that it’s not a good strategy to put all your eggs in the starting pitching basket? That we need something more to support that than a couple of big boppers in the batting order, and a wing and a prayer in the ‘pen?

Interesting … 🤔

the Tigers spent a lot of money on expensive players but I still never had the feeling there was ever any plan wrt producing a team where the pieces actually fit together. I think it's completely fair to critique Avila on how long it took him to get the decks cleared and actually begin rebuilding, but I at least do now have the feeling that Avila has a clear concept of what the team his is trying to build looks like and when he make moves they move in that direction and not at random angles to it. That's not enough by itself, but it's one piece that used to be lacking that I give him credit for today.

Edited November 5, 2021 by gehringer_2

[chasfh]

12 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

the Tigers spent a lot of money on expensive players but I still never had the feeling there was ever any plan wrt producing a team where the pieces actually fit together. I think it's completely fair to critique Avila on how long it took him to get the decks cleared and actually begin rebuilding, but I at least do now have the feeling that Avila has a clear concept of what the team his is trying to build looks like and when he make moves they move in that direction and not at random angles to it. That's not enough by itself, but it's one piece that used to be lacking that I give him credit for today.

I take your point here about Avila and the new direction, but by the same token, he was also part of the management team that steered the ship into the rocks twice.

I’m not ready to give anybody credit yet because we haven’t actually accomplished anything—we are still in the early days of pulling out of the depths, and it’s going to take another two, at least, and probably three years to fully realize the culmination of any decently-constructed plan. But even if we do reach the ultimate prize, I have to wonder how much of it will have been Avila’s doing, and how much of it is due to Hinch coming on board. Because as much credit as it is fair give Avila for bringing on Hinch in the first place, practically none of the things the organization has done that we’ve been raving about happened before Hinch got here.