Gun Legislation, Crime, and Events

[ewsieg]

On 7/23/2022 at 10:36 AM, Archie said:

No bail is a democrat policy is NY. It was first signed by Cuomo before he was caught being a sexual predator.  It allows many violent offenders to walk free while awaiting trial.  This is getting more common among democrat's in office.  Gascon is doing the same thing in LA.  At least the people in San Francisco seen the light and recalled the liberal DA who was soft on crime.  

The guy who attacked Zelden after Kathy Hochul who is his political opponent and current NY governor told her supporters to show up Zelden's campaign stops and called him dangerous.  Based on what democrats accuse Trump  of doing on January 6, Hochul should be guilty too.  When will the hearings and impeachment start in NY?

There is some truth that some liberal policies in some big cities is causing some legitimate crime issues.  It's not a false flag as Pfife says.

That said, you need to be truthful on why it's happening in most of these places too.  Take out Portland, San Fran, and a few other outlier cities and now look at Detroit.  Detroit is the same big city that largely pushed back on 'defund the police', yet folks are getting let out on bail for violent offenses.  Kill a Detroit cop and they'll throw a tether on you and send you on your way.  There is hardly any money in the budget for jails/sheriff department.  There has been such a push to cut taxes and just keep trimming away at budgets that the current Wayne County jail fights just to keep the lights on.  This same issue is going on nationwide.  

I'll be willing to point to some corruption and other reasons for this as well, but not until you can admit that the 'starve the beast' policy from the right plays a big role in this too.  

[pfife]

14 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

There is some truth that some liberal policies in some big cities is causing some legitimate crime issues.  It's not a false flag as Pfife says.

The incident Arch is raising was nothing like how Arch characterized it.

[Motown Bombers]

The violent crime rate in San Francisco is below the national average but media and conservatives act like it is some sort of hellscape.

[ewsieg]

13 minutes ago, pfife said:

The incident Arch is raising was nothing like how Arch characterized it.

He was trying to 'both sides' it.  I quit caring what the point he was making once I realized what he was trying to do.

[Motown Bombers]

You know what city has a significantly higher violent crime rate than San Francisco and Portland? Republican led Tulsa. Their murder, rape and assault rates are nearly 3 times higher than San Francisco and yet you'll never hear about it. 

 

[ewsieg]

4 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

The violent crime rate in San Francisco is below the national average but media and conservatives act like it is some sort of hellscape.

For San Francisco, I didn't think it was the violent crime that was the complaint, but rather theft/larceny and other smaller crimes that were surging.

[Motown Bombers]

3 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

For San Francisco, I didn't think it was the violent crime that was the complaint, but rather theft/larceny and other smaller crimes that were surging.

San Francisco has an identical theft rate to Tulsa and has a lower burglary and motor vehicle theft rate than Tulsa but one is "surging" and the other is just ignored. 

[pfife]

Red states top the list....

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm

[Motown Bombers]

I wonder what is different between the liberal policies of Detroit and Windsor? Or are we just going to say Canada is a conservative country now? 

[ewsieg]

13 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

San Francisco has an identical theft rate to Tulsa and has a lower burglary and motor vehicle theft rate than Tulsa but one is "surging" and the other is just ignored. 

https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/San-Francisco-crime-rate-17065509.php

Quote

It’s important to note that lower-level crimes like larceny theft are consistently underreported, so trends might not be perfectly reliable if the amount of underreporting changes over time. For instance, much of the increase in larceny thefts in late 2021 and early 2022 was due to an increase in reported shoplifting from a single Target store downtown. Take away the Target and shoplifting rates look like they did in early 2018.

I believe that's the Target that closed down.  Add in the Walgreen's that have shut down and pretty soon there may be no larceny at all, nor any stores in which you could possibly commit larceny from.  No stores, no larceny.... no larceny and that'll prove the dems are best at crime prevention.  Now I understand.

[Motown Bombers]

A quick search of Target.com shows four Targets in the city of San Francisco. 

[Motown Bombers]

Looking further into this, San Francisco has a very small footprint for a city with its population. It has a Target store for every 11.725 square miles. Dallas for example has a Target for every 56.6 square miles. Me thinks Target may have just been over saturated in the San Francisco market but OMG where will the people shop?

[Motown Bombers]

A Target store closed in San Francisco in what Target said was due to under performing sales. Had that store stayed open, it would have made San Francisco have a higher number of store per capita than other major cities. In doing just a little searching, I see a lot of right wing media running with the Target had to close because liberals stole everything.

[oblong]

When I was in SF in 2015 there was a Walgreens on nearly every corner downtown. 

[gehringer_2]

the one that stands out in that listing for SF is robbery. That is more than a property crime - robbery is the forcible taking of property from a person *in person* and 2.85 is too high a rate to sugarcoat. That is something like 40% higher than Tulsa's so not much comfort for Fransciscan's there.

Edited August 4, 2022 by gehringer_2

[Motown Bombers]

12 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

the one that stands out in that listing for SF is robbery. That is more than a property crime - robbery is the forcible taking of property from a person *in person* and 2.85 is too high a rate to sugarcoat. That is something like 40% higher than Tulsa's so not much comfort for Fransciscan's there.

Robbery is the only thing higher in San Francisco. You're only more likely to get raped, assaulted and killed in Tulsa.

[ewsieg]

43 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Looking further into this, San Francisco has a very small footprint for a city with its population. It has a Target store for every 11.725 square miles. Dallas for example has a Target for every 56.6 square miles. Me thinks Target may have just been over saturated in the San Francisco market but OMG where will the people shop?

I feel like your 'both sides' attempt to push against me even mentioning San Francisco and therefore pointing at Tulsa, despite the fact I was actually pushing against Archie, is now gone to the point of you just throwing anything at the wall.

Without looking it up at all, my guess is the population in SF is much more condensed than in Dallas.  But honestly, who cares.  The part that cracks me up the most about this is you have always been one of the biggest dissenters on any crime statistics out of Detroit.  Now when crime statistics can be used for your narrative though, you're going to post them all day long?

[Motown Bombers]

5 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

I feel like your 'both sides' attempt to push against me even mentioning San Francisco and therefore pointing at Tulsa, despite the fact I was actually pushing against Archie, is now gone to the point of you just throwing anything at the wall.

Without looking it up at all, my guess is the population in SF is much more condensed than in Dallas.  But honestly, who cares.  The part that cracks me up the most about this is you have always been one of the biggest dissenters on any crime statistics out of Detroit.  Now when crime statistics can be used for your narrative though, you're going to post them all day long?

San Francisco is much denser than Dallas. Only New York has a higher population density amongst major cities. Given it's high density and small footprint, it seems it would be served by adequately by fewer physical stores. I see no indication of their being no stores as you put it any time soon. There are also a couple dozen Walgreen stores in the city as well.

You mentioned San Francisco as an outlier city. I'm not sure what that is suppose to mean, but the city has a fairly average crime rate amongst large cities but seems to get outsized media attention.

I'm also not sure what a dissenter on Detroit crime statistics is suppose to mean.

[gehringer_2]

SF, maybe DT Chicago reach densities like NYC. I have a striking memory of going to lunch one day in DT SF. I was working with guys from Bechtel, whose offices were on Beale St. So we go down to the street and walk over a couple of blocks to this deli - no kidding it's the size of a bowling alley with people 10 deep at a counter the length of a football bench, and total chaos  - but they are probably moving a hundred people a minute in and out. So yeah - I wouldn't be surprised if that one deli served more customers in a day than all the delis in the City of Detroit combined.

Edited August 5, 2022 by gehringer_2

[ewsieg]

2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

So yeah - I wouldn't be surprised if that one deli served more customers in a day than all the delis in the City of Detroit combined.

Obviously that deli is smarter than Target and saw there were no deli's in SF and started one.  Once another 1, or even 2 deli's open up in SF and obviously some will have to close due to having so many in a small area.  It's not democrats fault deli's don't know how capitalism works.

[gehringer_2]

10 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

Obviously that deli is smarter than Target and saw there were no deli's in SF and started one.  Once another 1, or even 2 deli's open up in SF and obviously some will have to close due to having so many in a small area.  It's not democrats fault deli's don't know how capitalism works.

the whole discussion around SF has, of course dodged the probably the hottest civic issue in SF, which is the homeless population. They are quite likely both the a lot of victims and no doubt some of perps of that one stat I noted, which is so elevated in SF - robbery.

I know people around the country like to claim, superciliously, that "CA has a homeless problem" but the reality is that America has a homeless problem and conveniently for the rest of the country, cold (or hot) weather or cruelty drives most of their problem to the west coast for them and CA ends up the safety valve for all. 

[ewsieg]

9 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

the whole discussion around SF has, of course dodged the probably the hottest civic issue in SF, which is the homeless population. They are quite likely both the a lot of victims and no doubt some of perps of that one stat I noted, which is so elevated in SF - robbery.

I know people around the country like to claim, superciliously, that "CA has a homeless problem" but the reality is that America has a homeless problem and conveniently for the rest of the country, cold (or hot) weather or cruelty drives most of their problem to the west coast for them and CA ends up the safety valve for all. 

Wrong!  America has a drug problem that is seen as a homeless problem!

Seriously though, there is an argument that it may be a drug issue, but the above comment was satiric towards the fact that instead of listening, there is a need to point out a different and possibly valid issue, as the sole cause that you should be concerned about instead.

I can't imagine I'll ever be homeless.  If it does happen, I promise you I will do whatever I can to ensure that if I remain homeless, I am homeless in a warmer region (California maybe???) and one that I would suspect is more friendly to the homeless.  

I listen to a podcast that has done some work for an Oakland county homeless shelter and in listening to those guys that specialize in homelessness and trying to help out the best they can, it makes government as a whole, regardless of who is running it, look criminally incompetent.  It's one of the few issues I see where I think the amount of money dealing with the issue isn't part of the issue.  

[gehringer_2]

4 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

Wrong!  America has a drug problem that is seen as a homeless problem!

LOL- right! I was going to add something about nobody knowing how to get to the root of homelessness until you get to the root of substance abuse, so there it is.

>It's one of the few issues I see where I think the amount of money dealing with the issue isn't part of the issue.  

I think this is true with both homelessness and drug abuse. Obviously we spend tons of money in the criminal justice system around drug abuse to almost zero effect, but it's easy to find serious critiques that even when we do spend money on treatment the programs are often poorly designed and ignore what data there is about what does and doesn't work. 

And politicization is part of this problem as well. Both the left and right filter their approaches to program proposals through their their beliefs about who is right and wrong and moral and immoral in the situation instead of focusing on how to get results, which usually requires as a first admission that nothing is so black and white as political ideology paints it.

[Motown Bombers]

8 hours ago, ewsieg said:

Obviously that deli is smarter than Target and saw there were no deli's in SF and started one.  Once another 1, or even 2 deli's open up in SF and obviously some will have to close due to having so many in a small area.  It's not democrats fault deli's don't know how capitalism works.

You made the claim Target closed a store because of Democrats liberal crime policy that forced them to close and may continue to force them to close until none are left. First off, San Francisco is still well served by Target. There are as many stores per capita in San Francisco than any other city. Target closed one store and they said it was because of low sales. It seems this Target closing stores because of theft has been peddled on right wing media. Sorry if your right wing talking points got blown up. 

[Motown Bombers]

8 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

the whole discussion around SF has, of course dodged the probably the hottest civic issue in SF, which is the homeless population. They are quite likely both the a lot of victims and no doubt some of perps of that one stat I noted, which is so elevated in SF - robbery.

I know people around the country like to claim, superciliously, that "CA has a homeless problem" but the reality is that America has a homeless problem and conveniently for the rest of the country, cold (or hot) weather or cruelty drives most of their problem to the west coast for them and CA ends up the safety valve for all. 

San Francisco does attract homeless from around the state and country. The weather is one factor but the other is San Francisco is just more accepting of homeless. You even see it here. In Warren the police have been known to round up homeless and dump them in Detroit. Repeat offenders get dumped in Ann Arbor.