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Lions at Vikings - 10/10/21 - 1:00pm - FOX


MotownWebGuy

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31 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

What is it you could possibly like? Our inexperienced coach crying? Wouldn't it be better if he was, like, really pissed off? I mean, really, really pissed?

The tears didn’t do anything for me either good or bad.   I am over caring about the style and personality of the head coach.   I just want to start seeing results of the team getting better.  
 

I’m liking that despite being one of the least talented in the league and also riddled with key injuries this team has somehow managed to be in every game they’ve played.   Green Bay is the only one where that didn’t come down to last possession.  I’m still not sure how this has happened but the coaching adjustments and preparation appears much better than it’s been in the past.    

Edited by Hongbit
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1 hour ago, Hongbit said:

The tears didn’t do anything for me either good or bad.   I am over caring about the style and personality of the head coach.   I just want to start seeing results of the team getting better.  
 

I’m liking that despite being one of the least talented in the league and also riddled with key injuries this team has somehow managed to be in every game they’ve played.   Green Bay is the only one where that didn’t come down to last possession.  I’m still not sure how this has happened but the coaching adjustments and preparation appears much better than it’s been in the past.    

He's made some pretty bad calls. Going for it on 4th down with a lack of quality players. And his clock management hasn't been too impressive. Rushing 3 on critical plays with a horrible secondary. But yeah, we'll give him a pass until we get some players that are capable of playing in the NFL. But some of his calls are mistakes that hopefully he'll learn from.

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1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

He's made some pretty bad calls. Going for it on 4th down with a lack of quality players. And his clock management hasn't been too impressive. Rushing 3 on critical plays with a horrible secondary. But yeah, we'll give him a pass until we get some players that are capable of playing in the NFL. But some of his calls are mistakes that hopefully he'll learn from.

I think he has made some mistakes, but they're not at the level of Jim Schwartz costing us a game by not knowing the rules, or Jim Caldwell costing us a game by defending the sideline against Aaron Rodgers as time expired. I also think he's been very humble about his mistakes, and has owned up to them, which is way nicer to see than his predecessor.

Play calling is all Glenn and Lynn I'm pretty sure.

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1 hour ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I think he has made some mistakes, but they're not at the level of Jim Schwartz costing us a game by not knowing the rules, or Jim Caldwell costing us a game by defending the sideline against Aaron Rodgers as time expired. I also think he's been very humble about his mistakes, and has owned up to them, which is way nicer to see than his predecessor.

Play calling is all Glenn and Lynn I'm pretty sure.

Well, like I said, I hope he learns from his mistakes. He didn't seem to learn from the Baltimore game not to rusn 3 when a long play is needed. He did the same thing 2 weeks later, with the same results. With such a weak secondary, it seems like common sense not to give the opposing QB so much time to get the ball so far down the field. And even then, it took 2 historically long field goals to beat us. And hopefully he'll learn to call plays with the players he has and not just by the book. Going for it on 4th down usually is the right call. Only problems are the players you have to work with and putting your weak defense in a tight spot if you're stopped. That possibility has to be taken into account. And not taking the points when you're in FG range is never the right call early in a still close game.

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30 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Well, like I said, I hope he learns from his mistakes. He didn't seem to learn from the Baltimore game not to rusn 3 when a long play is needed. He did the same thing 2 weeks later, with the same results. With such a weak secondary, it seems like common sense not to give the opposing QB so much time to get the ball so far down the field. And even then, it took 2 historically long field goals to beat us. And hopefully he'll learn to call plays with the players he has and not just by the book. Going for it on 4th down usually is the right call. Only problems are the players you have to work with and putting your weak defense in a tight spot if you're stopped. That possibility has to be taken into account. And not taking the points when you're in FG range is never the right call early in a still close game.

I think that putting in the prevent defense has been from Glenn, not Campbell. Though I would agree I would hope Campbell would approach him about not doing this a 3rd time in a similar situation.

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I can't comment on the Minny game but as far as the Baltimore game that shouldnt be on Glenn. While I disagreed with not only bringing 3 the fact is we would've stopped them on that 4th and 19 if the one DB didnt blow his assignment. 

We can fault the coaches and playcalls all we want but some times you just have to blame the NFL player for not doing their job correctly which is what happened there.  If we ran a different play and a different player blew an assignment it probably would've resulted in a 1st down as well. 

 

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16 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

He's made some pretty bad calls. Going for it on 4th down with a lack of quality players. And his clock management hasn't been too impressive. Rushing 3 on critical plays with a horrible secondary. But yeah, we'll give him a pass until we get some players that are capable of playing in the NFL. But some of his calls are mistakes that hopefully he'll learn from.

Agreed on those being bad calls (although going for it on 4th down late in the Bears game was the right call) but rushing 3 is designed to protect the secondary by not leaving them on an island and insulating them in a zone. The bigger mistake was keeping the 2 safeties deep opening up the middle of the field when all the Ravens err... Vikings needed was a FG to win.

Edited by NYLion
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20 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

I can't comment on the Minny game but as far as the Baltimore game that shouldnt be on Glenn. While I disagreed with not only bringing 3 the fact is we would've stopped them on that 4th and 19 if the one DB didnt blow his assignment. 

We can fault the coaches and playcalls all we want but some times you just have to blame the NFL player for not doing their job correctly which is what happened there.  If we ran a different play and a different player blew an assignment it probably would've resulted in a 1st down as well. 

 

Our coach called timeout before the 4th and 19 play. We had them on the ropes but they were given a chance to regroup. Huge coaching mistake that some people want to deflect on the players. Not fair to them at all, no DB can be expected to cover for that long. Blitz and we win, that simple.

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16 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Our coach called timeout before the 4th and 19 play. We had them on the ropes but they were given a chance to regroup. Huge coaching mistake that some people want to deflect on the players. Not fair to them at all, no DB can be expected to cover for that long. Blitz and we win, that simple.

I do agree it was dumb to call that timeout but nobody was asking the dbs to cover that long all they were asked to do is keep everybody in front of you.

The one db decided to instead of staying at the sticks and forcing them to throw in front of you where you can just tackle them short, he was gonna wander up 10 yards allowing a receiver to get behind him, that's a blown assignment and a mental mistake you as a coach can't plan for your players to make. If the DB did his job the Lions win plain and simple. 

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28 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I do agree it was dumb to call that timeout but nobody was asking the dbs to cover that long all they were asked to do is keep everybody in front of you.

The one db decided to instead of staying at the sticks and forcing them to throw in front of you where you can just tackle them short, he was gonna wander up 10 yards allowing a receiver to get behind him, that's a blown assignment and a mental mistake you as a coach can't plan for your players to make. If the DB did his job the Lions win plain and simple. 

If the QB didn't have as much time to throw, receivers don't get down the field in their routes. He woulda dumped the ball down, a tackle and we win. Plain and simple.

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3 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

If the QB didn't have as much time to throw, receivers don't get down the field in their routes. He woulda dumped the ball down, a tackle and we win. Plain and simple.

If all it took was a blitz and you were guaranteed to take down the qb then teams would do it every play but that's not the case, particularly with a guy like Lamar Jackson.

  Lamar could've just as easily shook off the blitz and went out of the pocket and found a wide open receiver and then people would bitch about not dropping back guys.

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2 hours ago, buddha said:

every time teams lose a game people have to say someone made a "mistake" or it was the losing team's fault somehow.

sometimes the other team makes a good play and just beats you.  its not because you messed up.

Playing prevent defense with 30+ seconds left when all a team needs is a FG to win almost always never works out for the defense yet stupid teams continue to employ that strategy.

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49 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Playing prevent defense with 30+ seconds left when all a team needs is a FG to win almost always never works out for the defense yet stupid teams continue to employ that strategy.

they werent playing "prevent" defense.  they rushed 4 for every play but the last one, and the vikings beat them on each play.

the vikings decided to play into the lions' hands (paws?) by running the ball all the time.  every time they threw to jefferson, he was open.  but they decided to run the ball continually instead because that's how mike zimmer coaches.

they just got beat.  it wasnt because they rushed 3 or 4 or 2.  its because the vikings had the ball last and made a play.  it happens in the nfl continually, every week.

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1 hour ago, buddha said:

they werent playing "prevent" defense.  they rushed 4 for every play but the last one, and the vikings beat them on each play.

the vikings decided to play into the lions' hands (paws?) by running the ball all the time.  every time they threw to jefferson, he was open.  but they decided to run the ball continually instead because that's how mike zimmer coaches.

they just got beat.  it wasnt because they rushed 3 or 4 or 2.  its because the vikings had the ball last and made a play.  it happens in the nfl continually, every week.

I know and it doesn't make it any less dumb to rush 3 and have 2 safeties deep when protecting a 3 or less point lead with less than a minute left. It's chicken shit coaching.

I could see if there were like 10-15 seconds left but with 30+ seconds left, that's just way too much time to freely allow a team to complete several 15-20 yard passes down the middle.

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On 10/14/2021 at 8:18 PM, RandyMarsh said:

If all it took was a blitz and you were guaranteed to take down the qb then teams would do it every play but that's not the case, particularly with a guy like Lamar Jackson.

  Lamar could've just as easily shook off the blitz and went out of the pocket and found a wide open receiver and then people would bitch about not dropping back guys.

Ugh...one of the reasons Baltimore was in 3rd and long and 4th and long was we applied heavy pressure. On 4th and 19, no timeouts for Baltimore, we called time out, which gave them time to regroup. Then...we didn't apply any pressure, allowing him to survey the field to find an open receiver. I like Campbell but it was just horrible coaching. Good for our draft position though.

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7 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Ugh...one of the reasons Baltimore was in 3rd and long and 4th and long was we applied heavy pressure. On 4th and 19, no timeouts for Baltimore, we called time out, which gave them time to regroup. Then...we didn't apply any pressure, allowing him to survey the field to find an open receiver. I like Campbell but it was just horrible coaching. Good for our draft position though.

Again I totally agree about the Timeout thing, I think I said as much live during the game thread but I don't think the ensuing play call was bad.  Sure perhaps going after him would've resulted in the same thing that happened the first 3 downs but on the other hand you could've possibly gotten burnt and gave up a huge play.

As it stands it took a blown assignment by a defender, a good throw by Lamar, a missed delay of game penalty on the next play and then a record setting FG that made it by a few inches to win. If any of those things don't happen we win.  As buddha said sometimes you just have to tip your cap to the other team.  

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14 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Again I totally agree about the Timeout thing, I think I said as much live during the game thread but I don't think the ensuing play call was bad.  Sure perhaps going after him would've resulted in the same thing that happened the first 3 downs but on the other hand you could've possibly gotten burnt and gave up a huge play.

As it stands it took a blown assignment by a defender, a good throw by Lamar, a missed delay of game penalty on the next play and then a record setting FG that made it by a few inches to win. If any of those things don't happen we win.  As buddha said sometimes you just have to tip your cap to the other team.  

Talking to NFL analysts, they would tell you it's very hard to cover receivers for an extended period. Give an NFL QB enough time and he will find an open receiver. And it's not like we have a group of All Pros on our backfield. So our coaches knew we are thin on talent in our secondary but don't put any pressure on the QB to check down or to scramble. This is a pure coaching mistake after mistake. I like Campbell but he screwed the pooch on that one. I hope he learned. Oh wait, he did the same thing 2 weeks later. OK.

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4 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

Talking to NFL analysts, they would tell you it's very hard to cover receivers for an extended period. Give an NFL QB enough time and he will find an open receiver. And it's not like we have a group of All Pros on our backfield. So our coaches knew we are thin on talent in our secondary but don't put any pressure on the QB to check down or to scramble. This is a pure coaching mistake after mistake. I like Campbell but he screwed the pooch on that one. I hope he learned. Oh wait, he did the same thing 2 weeks later. OK.

Granted this is true, as far as it goes. But any decent NFL team will also burn you if they correctly anticipate the extra man coming on the rush, and those plays often often go for 6. It's not quite as simple as just sending more guys because you can't get pressure with 4. In the end there is only so much you can scheme to cover for poor personnel.

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