The Gaza War

[chasfh]

58 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

It has now, yes.

I just looked it up and saw. Is he of the left?

[oblong]

6 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Multi-culturalism îs a fine thing  - to a degree. But to pretend there are no differences in culture that matter or that don't demand value judgment amounts to ethical/moral nihilism and is a dangerously naive outlook.

and I didn't mean to disparage this guy... he's nice.  Very gentle.  He's not barking or anything. It has its advantages sometimes.  When they were outside for yoga a group of muslim kids were nearby acting up and disrupting the class. The instructor tried to do something but again, they aren't listening to some white woman.  This guy ran over there and got in their face and they ran off.  My son experienced it as a head life guard.  He tried to kick some kids out and they wouldn't leave. One of them pushed him in the pool, got his phone soaked.  He had to call the police and all summer long one was stationed at that pool for that reason.  The feedback we got was "why did they put a white kid in charge there?  The kids won't listen to him".  The mayor got invovled and they eventually did listen to him.  I'm not saying all of this to suggest they are all assholes, part of it is kids being kids but I do think there's an element culturally to always push back on authority and especially "outsiders".  Everything is just a suggestion, not a rule to be followed.

This is probably what was said about the Germans and Poles the early 1900's....

[mtutiger]

14 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I just looked it up and saw. Is he of the left?

I have no clue, but having spent a little time around Ithaca in my life, I'm guessing it's a pretty good possibility.

Edited November 1, 2023 by mtutiger

[gehringer_2]

8 minutes ago, oblong said:

and I didn't mean to disparage this guy... he's nice.  Very gentle. 

Unfortunately, people can be nice and still believe in destructive things. And we have 40 million of them in a America!

[gehringer_2]

13 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I have no clue, but having spent a little time around Ithaca in my life, I'm guessing it's a pretty good possibility.

FWIW, the NY post has a story about him. It you believe the Post and/or what the parents told them, it sounds like this is a young man who is losing it. His parents said they've been worried that he was suicidal, personality had been changing - he had taken semesters off to deal with depression, etc.

Edited November 1, 2023 by gehringer_2

[mtutiger]

 

[mtutiger]

20 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

FWIW, the NY post has a story about him. It you believe the Post and/or what the parents told them, it sounds like this is a young man who is losing it. His parents said they've been worried that he was suicidal, personality had been changing - he had taken semesters off to deal with depression, etc.

For sure, there may be other issues at play. And we don't know his politics one way or another at this point.

Either way, there have been plenty of examples of leftist anti-semitism that have come out over the past few days and weeks and it's a little frustrating that we are having debate about whether something that is clearly happening is actually happening.

Edited November 1, 2023 by mtutiger

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

I have no clue, but having spent a little time around Ithaca in my life, I'm guessing it's a pretty good possibility.

He might be of the left, but I don't know that it is a pretty good possibility. The guy might be a radical right-winger, and radical right-wingers can show up anywhere, even here in Big Shoulders, the right's platonic ideal of a leftist communist socialist hellhole, yet 17% of voters here went Trump in 2020. Location alone is not evidence.

I'm skeptical of the implication that because someone lives in a city or goes to a college, that constitutes de facto evidence that they must be of the left, and that if an incident of antisemitism is present, then by extension, that means the left is just as antisemitic as the right. I won't buy that until I see something more concrete than, it happened at a college.

[chasfh]

49 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

For sure, there may be other issues at play. And we don't know his politics one way or another at this point.

Either way, there have been plenty of examples of leftist anti-semitism that have come out over the past few days and weeks and it's a little frustrating that we are having debate about whether something that is clearly happening is actually happening.

My apologies for pushing back on this, but can you provide any other examples of what you mean? I'm hearing many people, not just you, across many platforms referring in general to leftist-based antisemitism, as though it's clear and obvious and everyone knows exactly what they mean, but I've seen literally no one point to any incidents and say here, this is what I mean. At least outside of the Cornell incident, and I think you and I both agree that the guy's leanings are still unclear.

[mtutiger]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

My apologies for pushing back on this, but can you provide any other examples of what you mean? I'm hearing many people, not just you, across many platforms referring in general to leftist-based antisemitism, as though it's clear and obvious and everyone knows exactly what they mean, but I've seen literally no one point to any incidents and say here, this is what I mean. At least outside of the Cornell incident, and I think you and I both agree that the guy's leanings are still unclear.

 

2 hours ago, mtutiger said:

 

 

[Tigeraholic1]

59 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

 

 

Don't look like Trumpers to me.

[smr-nj]

3 hours ago, mtutiger said:

 

Every one of them should be arrested, and further, if they are students, they should be expelled..

Sick of excuses for intimidating behaviors.

[smr-nj]

2 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Don't look like Trumpers to me.

I’ve gotta ask you…. What’s the purpose of your post?  

[Tigeraholic1]

6 minutes ago, smr-nj said:

I’ve gotta ask you…. What’s the purpose of your post?  

Chaz is flabbergasted that there might be crazies on the left and keeps asking anyone who will listen to show him one.  Someone did and I don't see any red hats, just an observation.

[pfife]

What criteria was used to categorize the people in the video as leftists?

[smr-nj]

16 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Chaz is flabbergasted that there might be crazies on the left and keeps asking anyone who will listen to show him one.  Someone did and I don't see any red hats, just an observation.

I thought that’s what you might’ve been suggesting, but I did want to have you verify that before I answer that there’s nothing in that picture that shows me those people as being leftists

[Tigeraholic1]

13 minutes ago, pfife said:

What criteria was used to categorize the people in the video as leftists?

Skinnie pants and patent leather boots.

[1776]

An incident almost identical to the video above occurred at UNC. I can’t find the video now but the mob, consisting of students and who knows who else, surrounded a Jewish professor and refused to let him enter a building on campus.

I cannot believe these actions are tolerated.They’re not just tolerated, they’re accepted by the faculty through their silence.

[Tigeraholic1]

I only really mentioned this because in the gun thread posters got a good chuckle out of making fun of "alleged" righties showing up to the brutal murder of Dr. Talat Khan. They would go on to say they did not do anything to help her and even let the murderer continue to bludgeon her. But when someone posted what truly happened they shrugged it off and moved on.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Tigeraholic1

[oblong]

I think some people are aghast or offended at the suggestion that there might be crazy/hateful people that otherwise generally align with them politically, even if further to the extreme.  Left/Right is a very broad box obviously.  But it cannot be denied that there's antisemetic feelings among the extremes of both wings.  Different reasons and motivations but hate is hate.

It doesn't mean that if a person leans left or considers themself a lefty that they are being charged as antisemtic.  

[ewsieg]

Chuck, I found this article interesting talking about the blowback Fetterman has had after a statement in which he said Israel has the right to remove Hamas.  They cite some polls that were interesting as well which was interesting.  

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/sen-john-fetterman-faces-left-wing-backlash-israel-rcna122204

 

[pfife]

46 minutes ago, oblong said:

I think some people are aghast or offended at the suggestion that there might be crazy/hateful people that otherwise generally align with them politically, even if further to the extreme.  Left/Right is a very broad box obviously.  But it cannot be denied that there's antisemetic feelings among the extremes of both wings.  Different reasons and motivations but hate is hate.

It doesn't mean that if a person leans left or considers themself a lefty that they are being charged as antisemtic.  

It feels to me that the hate isn't necessarily because of religion, it's because of killing.  Maybe the distinction isn't super important but when I think "anti-semitism" I think it's hatred b/c they're Jewish, whereas I think what we're seeing here is happening b/c there's killing happening.

[pfife]

Like when I watch that video and see them chanting "shame" - I don't think they're chanting shame that he's Jewish, it's shame that apparently inherent in his Jewishness is that he supports Israel killing Palestinians.

That's obviously really not a good or appropriate generalization to make regarding Jewish people (Trump does it all the time), but I think the distinction is important.

[pfife]

Bring it holic

[Tigerbomb13]

38 minutes ago, pfife said:

It feels to me that the hate isn't necessarily because of religion, it's because of killing.  Maybe the distinction isn't super important but when I think "anti-semitism" I think it's hatred b/c they're Jewish, whereas I think what we're seeing here is happening b/c there's killing happening.

Definitely. I think you can be critical of Israeli policy, and I don’t think that’s inherently anti-semitism. This isn’t a “Jews will not replace us” thing.