Hongbit Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 (edited) 20 hours ago, Sports_Freak said: There's a big difference. The Lions are contenders and the Raiders are rebuilding. I know it won't happen but getting Crosby (or a similar monster) would make our weak secondary instantly better. 20 hours ago, Sports_Freak said: New coach...full rebuild? Draft choices are gold. Send them a few and it may entice them. At least, I can dream. The Raiders would be idiots to trade him so there's a good chance they might. 😆😆 Logic rears its ugly head again. 😊 You and I may see the reality of the situation but I promise you that Mark Davis doesn’t see this Raiders team as rebuilding. I bet he truly believes they are just a player or two away from the Super Bowl next year. He believes that haircut looks good too. Edited February 10 by Hongbit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 I saw one of the fan sites(probably Bleacher Report) throw out the scenario where we trade a first for Joey Bosa. At first I didn't think it was that bad of idea until I looked closer at Bosa's numbers and to me a 1st along with having to pay him 27 million each of the next 2 seasons isn't worth it. I do think the Chargers may consider it though since they reportedly are in a tough cap situation and that is a big number that they can get rid of. Also for the Lions it isn't that big of deal since they have the space the next couple years, but he's just been too banged up the last few years for me to feel comfortable giving up a 1st(even though it's a late one) for him. Especially since we may only have him for 2 years. I feel with how coveted those are we could potentially use that to find a more reliable player or just use it and draft a younger cheaper player that will be here longer. If I felt confident that he'd be healthy and be on the field every game or atleast nearly every game I may be for it cause he's still a force when he is out there and pairing him with Hutch would obviously be a deadly combination but I think that's too much of a risk at this point to give up a 1st and pay that salary for 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 9 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: I saw one of the fan sites(probably Bleacher Report) throw out the scenario where we trade a first for Joey Bosa. At first I didn't think it was that bad of idea until I looked closer at Bosa's numbers and to me a 1st along with having to pay him 27 million each of the next 2 seasons isn't worth it. I do think the Chargers may consider it though since they reportedly are in a tough cap situation and that is a big number that they can get rid of. Also for the Lions it isn't that big of deal since they have the space the next couple years, but he's just been too banged up the last few years for me to feel comfortable giving up a 1st(even though it's a late one) for him. Especially since we may only have him for 2 years. I feel with how coveted those are we could potentially use that to find a more reliable player or just use it and draft a younger cheaper player that will be here longer. If I felt confident that he'd be healthy and be on the field every game or atleast nearly every game I may be for it cause he's still a force when he is out there and pairing him with Hutch would obviously be a deadly combination but I think that's too much of a risk at this point to give up a 1st and pay that salary for 2 years. I’d love to give Bosa a try for the next 2 years. They could get creative with the coming Goff and ASB extensions and backload the money to be able to afford Bosa’s $28m without much of an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 35 minutes ago, Hongbit said: I’d love to give Bosa a try for the next 2 years. They could get creative with the coming Goff and ASB extensions and backload the money to be able to afford Bosa’s $28m without much of an issue. I definitely think they could pull it financially and still keep whomever they were planning on keeping anyway but the problem(s) or risk for me come from the fact that they likely wouldn't be able to go outside the organization and bring in any help for things like the secondary and also the implications down the road by not having a 1st round pick. By that I mean you always want to have a cycle of young players that you can just plug in when your veterans are up for big contracts so you can either not pay those big contracts and plug in the young player or supplement any shortcomings on your roster from having said contracts with those young players. So by giving up a 1st that is one less player that we can do that with in 2 years when things may end up being a lot tighter for us payroll wise. But short term there is no doubt that the move makes us a lot better if Bosa is on the field cause it's highly unlikely who ever we pick with the 1st would have the impact he will the next 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said: I definitely think they could pull it financially and still keep whomever they were planning on keeping anyway but the problem(s) or risk for me come from the fact that they likely wouldn't be able to go outside the organization and bring in any help for things like the secondary and also the implications down the road by not having a 1st round pick. By that I mean you always want to have a cycle of young players that you can just plug in when your veterans are up for big contracts so you can either not pay those big contracts and plug in the young player or supplement any shortcomings on your roster from having said contracts with those young players. So by giving up a 1st that is one less player that we can do that with in 2 years when things may end up being a lot tighter for us payroll wise. But short term there is no doubt that the move makes us a lot better if Bosa is on the field cause it's highly unlikely who ever we pick with the 1st would have the impact he will the next 2 years. I guess it's a chicken/egg sort of thing. Getting consistent pressure on a QB will make your secondary look much better. Even the best cornerbacks can't cover for extended periods in today's NFL where all the rules heavily favor offenses. The league wants a lot of scoring, they think it's more exciting, sells tickets and improves ratings. And we also need to think about QB containment, something the Luons are pretty bat at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 2 hours ago, Sports_Freak said: I guess it's a chicken/egg sort of thing. Getting consistent pressure on a QB will make your secondary look much better. Even the best cornerbacks can't cover for extended periods in today's NFL where all the rules heavily favor offenses. The league wants a lot of scoring, they think it's more exciting, sells tickets and improves ratings. And we also need to think about QB containment, something the Luons are pretty bat at. Yeah in theory that definitely is the idea but as we saw last year the key really is actually sacking the QB or atleast keeping him contained cause too many QBs nowadays work as good if not better when flushed out of the pocket or scrambling. Having another guy pressure from the other direction could help maintain that though and if you don't force the sack you can atleast keep him contained in the collapsed pocket which could lead to a bad or hurried throw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 36 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: Yeah in theory that definitely is the idea but as we saw last year the key really is actually sacking the QB or atleast keeping him contained cause too many QBs nowadays work as good if not better when flushed out of the pocket or scrambling. Having another guy pressure from the other direction could help maintain that though and if you don't force the sack you can atleast keep him contained in the collapsed pocket which could lead to a bad or hurried throw. And once you hit a QB, many times they get gun-shy. A couple of good hits and they start rushing the pass. This makes your secondary appear better, they don't have to cover for as long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 (edited) 3 hours ago, Sports_Freak said: I guess it's a chicken/egg sort of thing. Getting consistent pressure on a... The flipside is that if your corners suck so bad that they can't cover anyone, a good QB is going to be able to find a receiver and hit him. The pressure won't matter. Gotta have CB's at least good enough to allow the pressure time enough to convert the sack. At least a few times in a game... Obviously that doesn't work every single pass play. But in my mind, gotta have both. Coverage good enough to force a QB to hold onto the ball too long... and good enough pass-rush to not only just get pressure, but close the deal (sack) often enough to make a difference (and also have the ability to contain and not lose QB's for 10-15-25 yard runs...). Edited February 10 by 1984Echoes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 59 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: The flipside is that if your corners suck so bad that they can't cover anyone, a good QB is going to be able to find a receiver and hit him. The pressure won't matter. Gotta have CB's at least good enough to allow the pressure time enough to convert the sack. At least a few times in a game... Obviously that doesn't work every single pass play. But in my mind, gotta have both. Coverage good enough to force a QB to hold onto the ball too long... and good enough pass-rush to not only just get pressure, but close the deal (sack) often enough to make a difference (and also have the ability to contain and not lose QB's for 10-15-25 yard runs...). Yeah, like I said, it's a chicken/egg thing. I prefer QB pressure, covering for extending time is incredibly hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 I prefer both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 I think you guys are also making a MAJOR mistake thinking we can just let Jonah walk... I don't think he will be "OVER"-priced... I think he will be an affordable sign for the Lions. He's not a top 10 Guard in the NFL. His PFF grade for 2023-24 was the 60th Guard. Even if there is context in there and he's a better guard than that... I don't think he's breaking the bank. He's more valuable than Ceedy Duce. He was critical to our best O-line play, as any substitute performed well below him. If his AAV is $10-12 mill per year... and I think it ends up closer to $10 mill than $12 mill... Then he is my #1 priority keeper re-sign. There are other areas to save money on this team. O-Line isn't one of them. Just my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Ok, let’s get this started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holygoat Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 21 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: I think you guys are also making a MAJOR mistake thinking we can just let Jonah walk... I don't think he will be "OVER"-priced... I think he will be an affordable sign for the Lions. He's not a top 10 Guard in the NFL. His PFF grade for 2023-24 was the 60th Guard. Even if there is context in there and he's a better guard than that... I don't think he's breaking the bank. He's more valuable than Ceedy Duce. He was critical to our best O-line play, as any substitute performed well below him. If his AAV is $10-12 mill per year... and I think it ends up closer to $10 mill than $12 mill... Then he is my #1 priority keeper re-sign. There are other areas to save money on this team. O-Line isn't one of them. Just my 2 cents. I think you might be right about Jonah. The conventional wisdom is that someone is gonna back a Brinks truck up to his house, but I'm not so sure about that. Someone might give him that bag -- and all it takes is one team -- but his injury history might make teams wary about going big to get him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) Pff only had him as like the 70th or 80th best FA with atleast a half dozen interior lineman ahead of him, also projected his yearly cap hit to be around 8 million so atleast in their views he isn't going to cost a fortune. Edited February 12 by RandyMarsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Something the Lions never had before, they offer Jackson one of the best opportunities to win a Super Bowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 They'll have a Jamaal Williams like problem with Jonah Jackson. The offensive line is a crucial part of the team's success (like the run game is). If he wants to test the open market, that's fine, but it might mean we move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 As I mentioned atleast according to PFFs rankings there appears to be several really good interior o lineman this FA so if Jackson were to leave we atleast have other options if we want to go the FA route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Reports are the Eagles are going to trade Reddick. Not sure how his contract would fit but he could be a target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 4 hours ago, RandyMarsh said: Pff only had him as like the 70th or 80th best FA with atleast a half dozen interior lineman ahead of him, also projected his yearly cap hit to be around 8 million so atleast in their views he isn't going to cost a fortune. Sign him up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) On 2/10/2024 at 10:37 AM, RandyMarsh said: I saw one of the fan sites(probably Bleacher Report) throw out the scenario where we trade a first for Joey Bosa. At first I didn't think it was that bad of idea until I looked closer at Bosa's numbers and to me a 1st along with having to pay him 27 million each of the next 2 seasons isn't worth it. I do think the Chargers may consider it though since they reportedly are in a tough cap situation and that is a big number that they can get rid of. Also for the Lions it isn't that big of deal since they have the space the next couple years, but he's just been too banged up the last few years for me to feel comfortable giving up a 1st(even though it's a late one) for him. Especially since we may only have him for 2 years. I feel with how coveted those are we could potentially use that to find a more reliable player or just use it and draft a younger cheaper player that will be here longer. If I felt confident that he'd be healthy and be on the field every game or atleast nearly every game I may be for it cause he's still a force when he is out there and pairing him with Hutch would obviously be a deadly combination but I think that's too much of a risk at this point to give up a 1st and pay that salary for 2 years. That would be a very unHolmeslike move and considering that this draft is in Detroit even less of a chance that they trade the pick for a win now solution. Plus, Bosa is never healthy. I don't see a move for Reddick either for that matter. I just can't see Holmes abandoning his plan and selling off futures for immediate help and/or making free agent splashes with big long term contracts like for Chris Jones or Hunter for example. Holmes seems like a man that's very strong with his convictions so I see more focus on drafting and developing, re-signing his own guys and taking chances on bargain bin free agents with short term deals. Could see Moseley and/or CJGJ back on 1 year prove it deals, for example. Edited February 12 by NYLion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 13 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: I think you guys are also making a MAJOR mistake thinking we can just let Jonah walk... I don't think he will be "OVER"-priced... I think he will be an affordable sign for the Lions. He's not a top 10 Guard in the NFL. His PFF grade for 2023-24 was the 60th Guard. Even if there is context in there and he's a better guard than that... I don't think he's breaking the bank. He's more valuable than Ceedy Duce. He was critical to our best O-line play, as any substitute performed well below him. If his AAV is $10-12 mill per year... and I think it ends up closer to $10 mill than $12 mill... Then he is my #1 priority keeper re-sign. There are other areas to save money on this team. O-Line isn't one of them. Just my 2 cents. I think he'll get more on the open market and the Lions can't afford to sign a guard for top 10 guard money, which is what Jonah will likely get, with Ragnow and Decker getting top dollar and Sewell soon to be the highest paid tackle in the league (and rightfully so). I thought the offensive line looked fine with Jonah out. Re-sign Glasgow at a reasonable rate and have a rotation of young guys (Awoslka, Sorsdal, draft pick) at the other guard spot and sign a vet for depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 4 minutes ago, NYLion said: I think he'll get more on the open market and the Lions can't afford to sign a guard for top 10 guard money, which is what Jonah will likely get, with Ragnow and Decker getting top dollar and Sewell soon to be the highest paid tackle in the league (and rightfully so). I thought the offensive line looked fine with Jonah out. Re-sign Glasgow at a reasonable rate and have a rotation of young guys (Awoslka, Sorsdal, draft pick) at the other guard spot and sign a vet for depth. Ragnow is getting injured often. When he's out 6 games next year, what's the backup plan? Interior line of Awosika-Glasgow-Sorsdal? Sorry... but that doesn't give me any comfort level whatsoever. Can't afford Jonah is bull****. IMO. He won't get top 10 guard money... that's BS. The O-Line is the ENGINE of this team. **** up the O-Line and we **** up our Super Bowl chances. Sorry, but I'm overruling you. Of all of our Free Agents this year: Jonah Jackson is our priority re-sign #1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) 28 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Ragnow is getting injured often. When he's out 6 games next year, what's the backup plan? Interior line of Awosika-Glasgow-Sorsdal? Sorry... but that doesn't give me any comfort level whatsoever. Can't afford Jonah is bull****. IMO. He won't get top 10 guard money... that's BS. The O-Line is the ENGINE of this team. **** up the O-Line and we **** up our Super Bowl chances. Sorry, but I'm overruling you. Of all of our Free Agents this year: Jonah Jackson is our priority re-sign #1. Losing Jonah is not going to **** up the offensive line. He is NOT the engine of that line, the tackles and Ragnow have been. Glasgow was better than Jonah last season for long stretches, Awosika looked solid too. There's also the draft. Ragnow has missed 3 total games the last 2 seasons so... You talk about Frank missing a bunch of games yet Jonah was the one who has been absent the most, missing 9 games to Ragnow's 3 and that's not including the playoffs when he was out of the lineup against SF. You can get angry and combative all you want but the reality is that quality players get paid on the free agent market, overpays happen all the time. Laken Tomlinson just got 3 years $40m, you don't think Jonah could get that on the open market? It's possible that he won't but you can't simply just dismiss the possibility just because YOU say so. The free agent market has proven that somebody could very well pay him top 10 guard money. We'll just agree to disagree. You think the line will fall apart without him, I don't. If he comes back at a discounted rate then I'm all for re-signing him but if he commands top 10 guard money then I'm letting him walk. I think it's 50/50. Edited February 12 by NYLion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 There was a big drop off from Jackson. I think Awosika improved during his stint replacing Jackson but there is still a marked difference. That said, there are several other guards in line to get paid. I don’t know their injury history, but Jackson has missed nine games over two seasons. That will not help his market. Also, as someone pointed out (MB?) Detroit will give him his best chance at a Super Bowl. This article (take it for what it’s worth) suggests a one year prove it deal, $3.5 million, $2 million guaranteed. Thid might not be the year Jonah breaks the bank. https://atozsports.com/detroit/can-lions-keep-jonah-jackson/#gid=ci02d58c194000278d&pid=usatsi_20838711 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 2 hours ago, NYLion said: ... You can get angry and combative all you want but ... I'm not angry or combative at all. I just think it's BS that he's going to get a top 10 Guard contract. Am I not allowed to say that? Oh yeah... This: 1 hour ago, Jason_R said: There was a big drop off from Jackson. I think Awosika improved during his stint replacing Jackson but there is still a marked difference. ...Jackson has missed nine games over two seasons. That will not help his market. ... This article (take it for what it’s worth) suggests a one year prove it deal, $3.5 million, $2 million guaranteed. This might not be the year Jonah breaks the bank. https://atozsports.com/detroit/can-lions-keep-jonah-jackson/#gid=ci02d58c194000278d&pid=usatsi_20838711 And this too: 7 hours ago, RandyMarsh said: Pff only had him as like the 70th or 80th best FA with atleast a half dozen interior lineman ahead of him, also projected his yearly cap hit to be around 8 million so atleast in their views he isn't going to cost a fortune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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