Spencer Torkelson

[UCFKNIGHT]

Torkelson reminds me of Bob Horner. Both guys were drafted out of Arizona State. Horner knew how to frustrate Braves fans and Torkelson is currently frustrating Tigers fans. Horner would often have 3 or 4 doubles in a game and proceed to have 5 strikeouts the next night. Torkelson does basically the same thing. It's only a matter of time before Torkelson begins to gain weight and end up playing in Japan.

[Toddwert]

4 minutes ago, UCFKNIGHT said:

Torkelson reminds me of Bob Horner. Both guys were drafted out of Arizona State. Horner knew how to frustrate Braves fans and Torkelson is currently frustrating Tigers fans. Horner would often have 3 or 4 doubles in a game and proceed to have 5 strikeouts the next night. Torkelson does basically the same thing. It's only a matter of time before Torkelson begins to gain weight and end up playing in Japan.

Horner hit .277 for his career Torkelson should be so lucky

[1776]

I remember Bob Horner, on a Sunday I believe it was, hit four home runs. Pretty sure he only batted four times that Sunday so not a bad haul. When asked about his day at the plate postgame he quipped, and I’m paraphrasing, ‘I think I had a pretty good week today.’

i also remember him ending up in St. Louis post Jack Clark when the Cardinals were desperate for a power bat. Whitey Herzog was very unhappy with the signing. Herzog was critical of Horner’s weight. He also said Horner was a doubles guy and the team needed a legitimate home run bat. Pretty sure Dal Maxvill was the GM then. 
To your point, if Torkelson is a Bob Horner reincarnate, it is not good. 
I’m afraid Torkelson is about where he’s going to be over the long haul. He’ll be consistently inconsistent.

[1776]

10 hours ago, Toddwert said:

Horner hit .277 for his career Torkelson should be so lucky

And, Horner could play 3rd base as well.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

Is Torkelson trending to be a Rob Deer type of player in that he'll hit 25-30 HRs per season, have a sub 750-800 OPS, bat somewhere between .230-.260 and strikeout 140 times in a season? He sure seems like a Rob Deer-esque player to me. He'll swing for the fences and either hit a homer or KO. He'll put few balls put in play and leave himself nothing in between hitting it out of the park or striking out.

[Motor City Sonics]

We're 10 games into the season.  Lets not get carried away.  He struggled early last year too.  

[Mr.TaterSalad]

3 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

We're 10 games into the season.  Lets not get carried away.  He struggled early last year too.  

And he hit 31 HRs, batted .233, had a .758 OPS and struck out 171 times. I get it, it was his first full season in the bigs and he's not exactly surrounded by talented hitters. So he deserves times and patience for sure. But those numbers, they are Rob Deer-esque to me. Strike out or hit a home run with too few balls in play in between.

[LongLiveMaroth]

3 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

We're 10 games into the season.  Lets not get carried away.  He struggled early last year too.  

Completely agree, he has cold and hot spells. He has had some terrible luck on hard-hit balls as well. Those will drop in soon enough. 

[Toddwert]

5 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

And he hit 31 HRs, batted .233, had a .758 OPS and struck out 171 times. I get it, it was his first full season in the bigs and he's not exactly surrounded by talented hitters. So he deserves times and patience for sure. But those numbers, they are Rob Deer-esque to me. Strike out or hit a home run with too few balls in play in between.

over 1100 plate apperances and this is his third season at what point is he what he is?

[LongLiveMaroth]

4 minutes ago, Toddwert said:

over 1100 plate apperances and this is his third season at what point is he what he is?

I mean he's 24 and showed much better performance in the second half of last year with more than .800 OPS so I don't think he is a finished product quite yet personally.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

8 minutes ago, Toddwert said:

over 1100 plate apperances and this is his third season at what point is he what he is?

I'm certainly willing to give him more time and coaching to improve. I want to think he can improve his overall plate approach and work to be a more patient hitter, capable of putting more balls in play. That said, two seasons in a row he's off to a rough start and trending in the wrong direction.

[mtutiger]

57 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said:

Completely agree, he has cold and hot spells. He has had some terrible luck on hard-hit balls as well. Those will drop in soon enough. 

Not here on MTS, but in the broader Tigers social media sphere, the bloodlust that some of the fans are exhibiting honestly has me wondering whether some folks want him to fail. Like, it seems to go beyond performance and turns into something more personal with Torkelson. 

As far as my concern level, yeah, I'm concerned. Certainly the ceiling in my mind has lowered for him as a player.... I doubt he'll strikeout as much as Rob Deer, but it's definitely a possibility that he ends up in that range or worse in terms of overall production. I also think he's got the talent to be a lot better than that as well and there's still time for him to get there.... and he has contributed this season in the wins they have had as well (most notably at Comerica on opening day), so there's talent there as well and he's an important piece to whether they can take the next step this year or not. We should all wish for that success.

[oblong]

It's surely disappointing but what can you do?   Nobody else from that draft is lighting it up.  Nobody else on this team is lighting it up.  Is it a Spencer problem or a team/org problem in not giving them the tools and support another club would?

He knows as well as anybody here or on twitter what he's doing and not doing and needs to do.  

 

[CMRivdogs]

Was just checking Baseball Reference, Tork's similarity score at age 23 is equal to Anthony Rizzo. I'd be ok with that career

[mtutiger]

17 minutes ago, oblong said:

It's surely disappointing but what can you do?   Nobody else from that draft is lighting it up.  Nobody else on this team is lighting it up.  Is it a Spencer problem or a team/org problem in not giving them the tools and support another club would?

He knows as well as anybody here or on twitter what he's doing and not doing and needs to do.  

 

Certainly in retrospect, he was called up way earlier than he should have been in 2022... which aside from whatever harm in his development that came from it, kinda set perceptions about him as well that he will have a tough time outrunning. 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

37 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

Was just checking Baseball Reference, Tork's similarity score at age 23 is equal to Anthony Rizzo. I'd be ok with that career

Rizzo has had it looks like 3 years with an OPS north of 900 and another 5 seasons with a north of 800 OPS. In all of those seasons he never struck out more than 120 times and several of those years he was below 100 strikeouts. Last season is really the only full season reference point we have. So hopefully he can trend more in the Rizzo direction from here on out, and not the Rob Deer direction. I agree that if he develops into a Rizzo type of player it would be a net positive for this team's future.

Edited April 9 by Mr.TaterSalad

[mtutiger]

44 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

Was just checking Baseball Reference, Tork's similarity score at age 23 is equal to Anthony Rizzo. I'd be ok with that career

Derrek Lee listed as well - would be OK with that.

Edited April 9 by mtutiger

[kdog]

He doesn't have any defensive value or speed. His only value is the hit tool. I would expect an .820 OPS at the minimum or he is replaceable.

 

The issue I have is he doesn't make consistent contact when the power stroke disappears. You aren't getting the consistent production. 

Greene and Meadows have some defensive value, speed on the bases, tools...Rogers is a good framer and defensive catcher. Tork has none of that.

Edited April 9 by kdog

[SoCalTiger]

The issue with Tork is he is a poor defender and at best average runner ( yesterday killing our only rally getting thrown out at third ) so his value is all based on his hit tool. He need an .800 plus OPS to overcome those two issues. Homers and RBI are misleading stats since many can come when the game is no longer in the balance. What matters is can he hit well will runners in scoring position and get on base and score runs himself. 
 

Again I am rooting for him hard because we need him and Green and Carpenter to be the meat of the order. Being a 1-1 puts more expectations on him, unfairly and I am one to do so , so we have to be patient before we decide weather he is part of our core or a platoon DH. 

[SoCalTiger]

11 minutes ago, kdog said:

He doesn't have any defensive value or speed. His only value is the hit tool. I would expect an .820 OPS at the minimum or he is replaceable.

 

The issue I have is he doesn't make consistent contact when the power stroke disappears. You aren't getting the consistent production. 

Greene and Meadows have some defensive value, speed on the bases, tools...Rogers is a good framer and defensive catcher. Tork has none of that.

You beat me too it and summed it up better as well !

[kdog]

Last year's stats are just ok. And it was only two months of prolific hitting.

[mtutiger]

1 hour ago, kdog said:

Greene and Meadows have some defensive value, speed on the bases, tools...Rogers is a good framer and defensive catcher. Tork has none of that.

I hear that, but at the same time, Greene, Meadows and Rogers tools don't mean a hill of beans when the offense, collectively and systemically, are not performing.

That's where we are at right now... the Tigers performance at the plate isn't just a Spencer Torkelson problem, it's a systemic problem.

[KL2]

1 hour ago, kdog said:

Last year's stats are just ok. And it was only two months of prolific hitting.

we know its your favorite thing to juts arbitrarily take and remove stats to prove your point, but those months count. he was also 23 with basically no lineup protection. 

[gehringer_2]

I tend to think there is a good hitter living inside Torkelson's skin but he has to get his head on straight with regard to his approach, and I really think the Tigers need to stop giving him too much to think about. Much like at the beginning of last season, Torkelson is in between too much, which is usually a symptom of thinking too much. Stop setting him up to be trying to outguess the pitcher, and just let him look for the ball. I have to say I am with Monroe on this. He says he hated pitcher scouting reports because it didn't matter if the guy did 'X' 90% of the time in 'Y' situation because he might just as easily know you know that and cross you up. IOW as long as pitch tendency data isn't absolute, it's value it pretty low in the real world. I would think any pitcher worth his salt, knowing that the tigers love to do deep tendency analytics, would absolutely come out and pitch against his tendencies, and I think we have seen a good number of games where that looked like it was happening.

Edited April 9 by gehringer_2

[gehringer_2]

I just saw today's game off the DVR and Torkelson actually looked more in control, esp the 1st inning RBI he looked like he had decided up the middle all the way. Of course probably easier since Perez doesn't have a lot of velo, but a good sign none-the-less.