Motown Bombers Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 24 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: I think he's looking at next year. Thomas has a $59 million cap hit next year. This is his last year in New Orleans. It also sheds light on how the Saints manipulate the cap. I think they restructured him earlier this year to facilitate his release. The $59MM is guaranteed, but it's spread out through a couple void years in 2025 and 2026 and a lot is put in signing bonuses and guarantees. I could be off by a bit, but I think that a post-6/1 release would result in like $11MM against the cap this year and $14MM next year and then just $4MM or less in 25 and 26. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 5 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: That contract should bring a smile to Mr. Goff's face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 3 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said: That contract should bring a smile to Mr. Goff's face. another reason to draft a qb of the future! lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 I think this will be one of the most interesting and consequential drafts for Detroit in years. Would it surprise me if they stayed safe at 6 and picked Gonzalez/Wilson/Murphy? No. Would it surprise me if they stayed there and picked Skoronski? No. Would it surprise me if they traded back to 9 or 11 and picked up a third second-round pick in a draft that is not top-heavy but deep? No. Would it surprise me if Stroud or Anderson fell to 6 and they picked him? At this point, no. And if the chips fall so they pick Stroud, would it surprise me if they trade Goff for another 1st round pick? No, not really. I think they really like him, but if Stroud falls into their lap maybe they take him and use Goff's salary to sign a top tier CB and DT along with some more depth pieces. Just feels like this draft might be really, really wild for Lions fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djhutch Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 7 minutes ago, Jason_R said: I think this will be one of the most interesting and consequential drafts for Detroit in years. Would it surprise me if they stayed safe at 6 and picked Gonzalez/Wilson/Murphy? No. Would it surprise me if they stayed there and picked Skoronski? No. Would it surprise me if they traded back to 9 or 11 and picked up a third second-round pick in a draft that is not top-heavy but deep? No. Would it surprise me if Stroud or Anderson fell to 6 and they picked him? At this point, no. And if the chips fall so they pick Stroud, would it surprise me if they trade Goff for another 1st round pick? No, not really. I think they really like him, but if Stroud falls into their lap maybe they take him and use Goff's salary to sign a top tier CB and DT along with some more depth pieces. Just feels like this draft might be really, really wild for Lions fans. If they draft a QB at #6, it will be to sit behind Goff for a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 16 minutes ago, djhutch said: If they draft a QB at #6, it will be to sit behind Goff for a year. Maybe. Again, I don't expect it but if Stroud falls into their laps it's anyone's guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 51 minutes ago, buddha said: another reason to draft a qb of the future! lol. So what happens when the QB you draft is good and you need to sign him to an extension, only prices for QBs are higher than they are now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 57 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: So what happens when the QB you draft is good and you need to sign him to an extension, only prices for QBs are higher than they are now? hopefully you can worry about it while you polish your super bowl trophies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said: So what happens when the QB you draft is good and you need to sign him to an extension, only prices for QBs are higher than they are now? A) You pay him B) You trade him C) You trade or release your current starter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 1 minute ago, CMRivdogs said: A) You pay him B) You trade him C) You trade or release your current starter The premise was to draft a QB for cap savings. You want have cap savings next year. In fact, your cap situation in year one will be worse if you draft a QB. You'll have to decide then by year 3 if you want to extend the QB. This drafting a QB for cap savings is one of the dumbest things I've heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said: The premise was to draft a QB for cap savings. You want have cap savings next year. In fact, your cap situation in year one will be worse if you draft a QB. You'll have to decide then by year 3 if you want to extend the QB. This drafting a QB for cap savings is one of the dumbest things I've heard. But dude... That's what all the cool kids are doing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 2 hours ago, Motown Bombers said: The premise was to draft a QB for cap savings. You want have cap savings next year. In fact, your cap situation in year one will be worse if you draft a QB. You'll have to decide then by year 3 if you want to extend the QB. This drafting a QB for cap savings is one of the dumbest things I've heard. why would you need to decide by year 3 if you want to extend him? if you do, it will be to pick up the 5th year option, for $20m? goff is under contract for one more year. how much will he cost to extend him? in two years, a first year qb will cost $10m on a rookie contract? how much will goff cost? $40m? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 6 minutes ago, buddha said: why would you need to decide by year 3 if you want to extend him? if you do, it will be to pick up the 5th year option, for $20m? goff is under contract for one more year. how much will he cost to extend him? in two years, a first year qb will cost $10m on a rookie contract? how much will goff cost? $40m? Year three is when drafted players are eligible for extensions. If the QB is good, you will want to lock them up to an extension. I suppose you could go the Lamar Jackson route and basically have a standoff. Not sure the Lions want to be known as the team that's too cheap to pay their star QBs. Goff is under contract for two more years. If you are drafting QB for cap reasons, you better cut or trade him after a year. You can't restructure him since you would be stuck with him for two years so you lose potential cap space in year one because you would have to absorb the full cap hit in 2023 plus the $6-7 million for the rookie QB. They could sign him to an extension now and lower his cap the next two seasons. Given what Carr got and what Daniel Jones may get, probably going to be in the $40 million range. It was just two years ago that Goff's contract was so untradeable that the Rams had to add a 1st round to get rid of him. Now he has a fairly team friendly contract that is pretty tradeable. It will be expense today but in 3-4 years after a couple other QBs sign deals, it won't look as bad. The same thing with Stafford when he signed his extension with Detroit. It was expensive at first and then became team friendly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 37 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Year three is when drafted players are eligible for extensions. If the QB is good, you will want to lock them up to an extension. I suppose you could go the Lamar Jackson route and basically have a standoff. Not sure the Lions want to be known as the team that's too cheap to pay their star QBs. Goff is under contract for two more years. If you are drafting QB for cap reasons, you better cut or trade him after a year. You can't restructure him since you would be stuck with him for two years so you lose potential cap space in year one because you would have to absorb the full cap hit in 2023 plus the $6-7 million for the rookie QB. They could sign him to an extension now and lower his cap the next two seasons. Given what Carr got and what Daniel Jones may get, probably going to be in the $40 million range. It was just two years ago that Goff's contract was so untradeable that the Rams had to add a 1st round to get rid of him. Now he has a fairly team friendly contract that is pretty tradeable. It will be expense today but in 3-4 years after a couple other QBs sign deals, it won't look as bad. The same thing with Stafford when he signed his extension with Detroit. It was expensive at first and then became team friendly. no, you would have the qb this year wait behind goff for a low amount, then have him for less than market value for four more years. goff is under contract for $30 million this year and next, then would be off the books when your qb is making $10 million, $15m and then $20. goff during that time will cost $40, $40, and $40. at a minimum. im not advocating they draft a qb, but it would be cheaper than signing goff long term and cheaper than goff now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 3 minutes ago, buddha said: no, you would have the qb this year wait behind goff for a low amount, then have him for less than market value for four more years. goff is under contract for $30 million this year and next, then would be off the books when your qb is making $10 million, $15m and then $20. goff during that time will cost $40, $40, and $40. at a minimum. im not advocating they draft a qb, but it would be cheaper than signing goff long term and cheaper than goff now. Zach Wilson his first year had a cap hit of $6 million so a QB taken 6th this year would be in that ballpark so about $36-37 million in QBs for 2023. You can restructure Goff and save $12 million or so this year so your cap hit at QB in 2023 would be significantly higher because a restructure is off the table. If you sign Goff to an extension it can be structured in different ways. If the drafted QB is good, you only get temporarily cap relief and you can still get temporary cap relief by restructuring Goff. The Lions are in such good shape cap wise in the future that they don't need cap help anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 I'm trying to follow this logic and I'm having difficulty... I'm going to apply my own logic: Drafted QB at #6 (Levis or Richardson or Stroud... take your pick...), roughly $6 mill in 2023 plus Goff's $30 mill = 2023 = $36 mill in QB cap. Trade Goff after the 2023 season for two 1sts from the Jets. What is his cap hit if we trade him? I'm going to ignore that just for a moment... 2024 = $8 mill for our #6 QB (starter) and a backup QB at $4 mill? = $12 mill in cap for QB? 2025 = $10 mill for our #6 QB (starter) and a backup QB at $4 mill? = $14 mill in cap for QB? 2026 = $15 mill for our #6 QB (starter) and a backup QB at $4 mill? = $19 mill in cap for QB? 2027 = $20 mill for our #6 QB (starter) and a backup QB at $4 mill? = $24 mill in cap for QB? 2028 = (if we signed our #6 QB to an extension because we really LIKE him...)? For the next 5 years we are covered, relatively inexpensively compared to the rest of the league, with Goff and then our #6 draft pick QB... Plus we get two extra 1sts out of that... What was the problem again...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 trade goff for two first from the jets. ok, that's the land of make believe. stop yourself right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 4 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: I'm trying to follow this logic and I'm having difficulty... I'm going to apply my own logic: Drafted QB at #6 (Levis or Richardson or Stroud... take your pick...), roughly $6 mill in 2023 plus Goff's $30 mill = 2023 = $36 mill in QB cap. Trade Goff after the 2023 season for two 1sts from the Jets. What is his cap hit if we trade him? I'm going to ignore that just for a moment... 2024 = $8 mill for our #6 QB (starter) and a backup QB at $4 mill? = $12 mill in cap for QB? 2025 = $10 mill for our #6 QB (starter) and a backup QB at $4 mill? = $14 mill in cap for QB? 2026 = $15 mill for our #6 QB (starter) and a backup QB at $4 mill? = $19 mill in cap for QB? 2027 = $20 mill for our #6 QB (starter) and a backup QB at $4 mill? = $24 mill in cap for QB? 2028 = (if we signed our #6 QB to an extension because we really LIKE him...)? For the next 5 years we are covered, relatively inexpensively compared to the rest of the league, with Goff and then our #6 draft pick QB... Plus we get two extra 1sts out of that... What was the problem again...? In 2023 their cap hit in QBs could be roughly $18 million if you restructure Goff. That would be off the table since that would commit you to Goff for two years. There is a $5 million cap hit in 2024 to trade Goff. Year three, or 2025, is when players are eligible to sign extensions. If the new QB is good, you would need to resign him there and his salary in year four would go up. Your cap savings are really for two seasons and you lose potential cap savings in year one. You don't need to sign the QB to an extension but then you run into a Lamar Jackson situation. On top of that, the Lions are in fantastic shape cap wise in the future so they don't even need the future cap space. It's such a dumb reason to draft a QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 19 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Zach Wilson his first year had a cap hit of $6 million so a QB taken 6th this year would be in that ballpark so about $36-37 million in QBs for 2023. You can restructure Goff and save $12 million or so this year so your cap hit at QB in 2023 would be significantly higher because a restructure is off the table. If you sign Goff to an extension it can be structured in different ways. If the drafted QB is good, you only get temporarily cap relief and you can still get temporary cap relief by restructuring Goff. The Lions are in such good shape cap wise in the future that they don't need cap help anyways. the lions will have to pay sewell and st brown soon. then hutch. the lions have drafted good players who will become expensive in a couple years, their cap sheet wont be that great in a few years, especially if youre paying a 30 year old qb 40 million per season. again, not advocating they take a qb, but the idea that goff will be cheaper than a rookie qb isnt true, not to mention that if they draft a qb i assume they think he will be a dynamic qb that goff is not. that said, i doubt they take a qb this year, but the future cap implications and the upgrade in talent would be two of the major reasons why they do it of they decide to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 1 minute ago, buddha said: the lions will have to pay sewell and st brown soon. then hutch. the lions have drafted good players who will become expensive in a couple years, their cap sheet wont be that great in a few years, especially if youre paying a 30 year old qb 40 million per season. again, not advocating they take a qb, but the idea that goff will be cheaper than a rookie qb isnt true, not to mention that if they draft a qb i assume they think he will be a dynamic qb that goff is not. that said, i doubt they take a qb this year, but the future cap implications and the upgrade in talent would be two of the major reasons why they do it of they decide to do so. The Lions will need to sign those players but Holmes has done such a good job of not locking into free agents. The Lions as of right have a projected $236 million in cap space in 2025 and $122 million next year. They have $122 million in cap space next year and that includes Goff. They are in great shape cap wise. I mean, why not draft a tackle and WR for cap savings instead of signing them to large contracts? I only said Goff would be cheaper in 2023 because you can restructure him. Once I again, I said the cap relief is temporary and the Lions don't need temporary cap relief. It is a stupid reason to draft a QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Not as bad as I thought would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL2 Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said: In 2023 their cap hit in QBs could be roughly $18 million if you restructure Goff. That would be off the table since that would commit you to Goff for two years. There is a $5 million cap hit in 2024 to trade Goff. Year three, or 2025, is when players are eligible to sign extensions. If the new QB is good, you would need to resign him there and his salary in year four would go up. Your cap savings are really for two seasons and you lose potential cap savings in year one. You don't need to sign the QB to an extension but then you run into a Lamar Jackson situation. On top of that, the Lions are in fantastic shape cap wise in the future so they don't even need the future cap space. It's such a dumb reason to draft a QB. I actually understand what Motown is arguing but he is off a bit Even if you have said rookie on a contract, in year 3 he isn't signing for full free agent value. He wouldn't have played or shown what you can do so nobody is giving him 40 million. And not many guys are extended then. If he was the cap hit would be backloaded like all contracts. So there still would be savings by drafting one and letting goff go. Goff best case one Year 1 of just Goff with a likely restructure 13 million Year 1 of goff and rookie Goff 30 million + rookie 5 million Next savings of -23 million Year 2 of just goff 28 million Year 2 of goff cap hit because hes cut and rookie 15 million Net savings of 13 million Year 3 of rookie 15 million (Net savings of 25 million cause goffs extension would be about 40 million for arguments sake by then) So while it wouldn't help the cap this year, per se. It would in the long term. And the idea behind this year's saving assumes one thing and forgets another. Someone is getting that rookie cap hit no matter what. And it assumes goff would even agree to a restructure. Edited March 7, 2023 by KL2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL2 Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said: The Lions will need to sign those players but Holmes has done such a good job of not locking into free agents. The Lions as of right have a projected $236 million in cap space in 2025 and $122 million next year. They have $122 million in cap space next year and that includes Goff. They are in great shape cap wise. I mean, why not draft a tackle and WR for cap savings instead of signing them to large contracts? I only said Goff would be cheaper in 2023 because you can restructure him. Once I again, I said the cap relief is temporary and the Lions don't need temporary cap relief. It is a stupid reason to draft a QB. I really wish you'd stop citing future cap obligations. Those are just silly. I mean in year 2025 the bears have 505 million in cap space and 28 teams have more than 100 million. The Lions seem better than most and ranked 9th but it's not some mastery of the system, every team outside of the saints has a bazillion dollars on cap space in future years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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