Motown Bombers Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 It would only help in cap space for a stretch of three years. This is assuming they keep Goff in year one. Then years two through four, assuming no extension, you will save. If the QB is good, you will want to sign him after year three. Lots of good players sign their extensions after year three. I expect Sewell and St Brown to be signing extensions at this time next year. Goff signed his extension with the Rams after year three. Same with Josh Allen. Even if you don't, the 5th year option on a 1st round QB is not cheap. The highest tier is $29 million. In 5 years that would likely be in the low 30's. The Lions have the 6th most projected cap space in 2025 right now. They have that because they haven't given out multi year contracts. The only players under contract in 2025 right now are their 2022 draft class plus Ragnow. The Bears have a ton of money and if they start dishing out contracts, their cap space in 2025 is going to go down fast. The Lions have no bad contracts right now that will affect cap in the future. The Lions simply don't need future cap space. They have plenty to sign a QB like Goff and sign their young stars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 29 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: The funniest outcome would be Rodgers going to the Jets and winning the Super Bowl while the Jordan Love Packers finish the season at the bottom of the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 I didn't see this yesterday. Sheesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 34 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: It would only help in cap space for a stretch of three years. This is assuming they keep Goff in year one. Then years two through four, assuming no extension, you will save. If the QB is good, you will want to sign him after year three. Lots of good players sign their extensions after year three. I expect Sewell and St Brown to be signing extensions at this time next year. Goff signed his extension with the Rams after year three. Same with Josh Allen. Even if you don't, the 5th year option on a 1st round QB is not cheap. The highest tier is $29 million. In 5 years that would likely be in the low 30's. The Lions have the 6th most projected cap space in 2025 right now. They have that because they haven't given out multi year contracts. The only players under contract in 2025 right now are their 2022 draft class plus Ragnow. The Bears have a ton of money and if they start dishing out contracts, their cap space in 2025 is going to go down fast. The Lions have no bad contracts right now that will affect cap in the future. The Lions simply don't need future cap space. They have plenty to sign a QB like Goff and sign their young stars. There are definitely creative ways to maximize the value of a rookie contract for the full 5 years. Take a look at the Mahomes contract that he signed after year 3. It was a 10 year extension that started after the remaining 2 years of his initial rookie deal. They have him a big signing bonus to keep him happy for those 2 years and they were able to spread it out over the life of the contract. It bought them 2 more years of friendly cap numbers and another Super Bowl. I expect they will continue to keep extending it and giving him more signing bonuses for years to come. The Chiefs will probably be on the hook for $80M a year when he’s 35 but that’s a long way off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 5 minutes ago, Hongbit said: There are definitely creative ways to maximize the value of a rookie contract for the full 5 years. Take a look at the Mahomes contract that he signed after year 3. It was a 10 year extension that started after the remaining 2 years of his initial rookie deal. They have him a big signing bonus to keep him happy for those 2 years and they were able to spread it out over the life of the contract. It bought them 2 more years of friendly cap numbers and another Super Bowl. I expect they will continue to keep extending it and giving him more signing bonuses for years to come. The Chiefs will probably be on the hook for $80M a year when he’s 35 but that’s a long way off. I mean, you can use the same creativity with Goff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley70 Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 (edited) 28 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said: I didn't see this yesterday. Sheesh. So I guess the Seahawks won't be drafting a QB. Edited March 7, 2023 by Stanley70 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Wait, doesn't Seattle need a backup QB? They can draft a QB to sit behind Smith and save cap space. Weird how Seattle doesn't need to think about drafting a QB when they signed a 32 year old with only one good year in his entire career. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades of Deivi Cruz Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 6 minutes ago, Stanley70 said: So I guess the Seahawks won't be drafting a QB. Pro Football Network's Adam Beasley believes Geno Smith's new contract with the Seahawks makes QB Anthony Richardson an "ideal" first-round pick for Seattle. The Seahawks on Monday locked up Smith, 32, with a three-year extension after his stellar 2022 campaign, when he led the league in completion rate and threw 30 touchdowns to 11 interceptions. Beasley said short-term security at quarterback would make Seattle a leading candidate to take Richardson with the fifth pick of the 2023 NFL Draft. "That security at the most important position in pro sports allows the Seahawks to draft the guy they think will be the best quarterback in five years, not five months," Beasley said. "And given Richardson is both the most gifted and the rawest of this year’s class, the stage is set for the Seahawks to secure both their present and their future." Richardson told ESPN he had a good interview with the Seahawks at the NFL Combine, complimenting head coach Pete Carroll's energy. "We are totally connected to the quarterbacks that are coming out," Carroll said during the Combine. "This is a really huge opportunity for us. It’s a rare opportunity." How long Richardson would sit behind Smith is anyone's guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 10 hours ago, Motown Bombers said: In 2023 their cap hit in QBs could be roughly $18 million if you restructure Goff. That would be off the table since ... So why even comment on that since it's off the table? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 10 hours ago, buddha said: trade goff for two first from the jets. ok, that's the land of make believe. stop yourself right there. But it's the Jets... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 1 minute ago, 1984Echoes said: So why even comment on that since it's off the table? It's off the table if you draft a QB. Perhaps you should read the rest of the post. Retructuring Goff would save cap space in 2023 but it would commit you to Goff for two years. I'm assuming if you to draft a QB for cap savings over Goff you want to move on as soon as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 That's the point of the whole discussion. The Lions drafting a QB. Which makes your point completely moot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 11 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: But it's the Jets... true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 1 minute ago, 1984Echoes said: That's the point of the whole discussion. The Lions drafting a QB. Which makes your point completely moot. No it doesn't. You also have the option of not drafting a QB. If you do not draft a QB, you can save cap space in year one by restructuring Goff. If you do draft a QB, you basically take that option off the table and end up with more cap space tied to a QB in year one. Years 2-4, when the Lions have tons of cap space, you would most likely save cap space with a rookie QB. You get temporary cap relief at a time the Lions don't need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 (edited) I'm still of the philosophy that you role with Goff until his contract or play on the field gives you a reason to move on and right now neither is. Maybe it will be in two years but guess what you can add a qb then if you want. Until then just continue to build your team so you have more young pieces to not only aid you short term but can also be of help to fall back on if you can't sign everybody. For example if you draft a good receiver this year and he pans you may choose not to pay St. Brown a ton of money when that time comes since you will have that receiver and Jamo waiting in the wings. Edited March 7, 2023 by RandyMarsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 And nobody's (well at least I'm not) suggesting drafting a QB because of "cap space". The issue is if the Lions brass feels they have a unique opportunity (high draft pick at #6, and if we continue to improve like we think we should, we may not see that opportunity again for 5+ years? More or less?) to draft a QB for the future. And if they are sold on one of Stroud/ Levis/ or Richardson as that QB. And if Goff is the right QB for the next 5 years. Cap space is just icing on the cake. It's not the reason to draft one of these QB's. My preference is to NOT draft one of these QB's. I'm just arguing the logic... and the way you are arguing it seems almost as if you are arguing that it would be BAD to draft a new QB because of the cap space issue. Which is not true at all. I don't get why you are arguing over this. The argument should be about whether Levis/ Stroud/ Richardson are better than Goff, now, and 5 years in the future. Who cares about the cap? We get a cap space advantage if we draft a rookie QB to take over for Goff. Period. But that is NOT what the argument for drafting/ not drafting a QB at #6 should be about. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: I'm still of the philosophy that you role with Goff until his contract or play on the field gives you a reason to move on and right now neither is. Maybe it will be in two years but guess what you can add a qb then if you want... That's why I want to draft Hooker in the 2nd. IMO, he's a CYA QB. He may or may not be better than Goff. In two years he'll be 27? If he IS better than Goff, then you can let Goff go and ride Hooker for a few years. Or search for an even better QB if you don't believe in Hooker as the starter, or in Goff. At the very least, he should be a pretty high end backup for the next 4 years, aside from his redshirt year in 2023 due to the ACL. He comes at a cheaper cost (2nd-ish.. maybe 3rd? instead of the #6...). He has some high end ability. Which makes him a really good backup or, if he's better, a possible starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 27 minutes ago, Shades of Deivi Cruz said: Pro Football Network's Adam Beasley believes Geno Smith's new contract with the Seahawks makes QB Anthony Richardson an "ideal" first-round pick for Seattle. The Seahawks on Monday locked up Smith, 32, with a three-year extension after his stellar 2022 campaign, when he led the league in completion rate and threw 30 touchdowns to 11 interceptions. Beasley said short-term security at quarterback would make Seattle a leading candidate to take Richardson with the fifth pick of the 2023 NFL Draft. "That security at the most important position in pro sports allows the Seahawks to draft the guy they think will be the best quarterback in five years, not five months," Beasley said. "And given Richardson is both the most gifted and the rawest of this year’s class, the stage is set for the Seahawks to secure both their present and their future." Richardson told ESPN he had a good interview with the Seahawks at the NFL Combine, complimenting head coach Pete Carroll's energy. "We are totally connected to the quarterbacks that are coming out," Carroll said during the Combine. "This is a really huge opportunity for us. It’s a rare opportunity." How long Richardson would sit behind Smith is anyone's guess. Early last season when it looked like Goff’s regression was worsening, I said I wouldn’t be surprised if the Lions signed the resurgent Geno then drafted AR to sit behind him. It wouldn’t be a total shock if Seattle did that. Deal is reported as 3 years, $105 million with $52 million in first year guarantees. It probably amounts to something like a two-year $65 million contract if Seattle chooses to move on before year three. Wouldn’t Schneider and Carroll love to make a star out of Geno then a super star out of AR just to rub Wilson’s face in the dirt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 11 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: And nobody's (well at least I'm not) suggesting drafting a QB because of "cap space". The issue is if the Lions brass feels they have a unique opportunity (high draft pick at #6, and if we continue to improve like we think we should, we may not see that opportunity again for 5+ years? More or less?) to draft a QB for the future. And if they are sold on one of Stroud/ Levis/ or Richardson as that QB. And if Goff is the right QB for the next 5 years. Cap space is just icing on the cake. It's not the reason to draft one of these QB's. My preference is to NOT draft one of these QB's. I'm just arguing the logic... and the way you are arguing it seems almost as if you are arguing that it would be BAD to draft a new QB because of the cap space issue. Which is not true at all. I don't get why you are arguing over this. The argument should be about whether Levis/ Stroud/ Richardson are better than Goff, now, and 5 years in the future. Who cares about the cap? We get a cap space advantage if we draft a rookie QB to take over for Goff. Period. But that is NOT what the argument for drafting/ not drafting a QB at #6 should be about. IMO. A lot of people suggested (not just on this forum) drafting a QB because of the cap savings. That's what started this whole thing about having to pay Goff $40+ million. It would be stupid to draft a QB for cap space. It would be same old Lions to draft a QB because you don't want to pay your QB. Like I've said, you get a temporary cap savings in years where the Lions have a ton of cap space. You still have to sign the rookie QB if he is good. I'm assuming we want the Lions to draft a good QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 1 minute ago, Jason_R said: Early last season when it looked like Goff’s regression was worsening, I said I wouldn’t be surprised if the Lions signed the resurgent Geno then drafted AR to sit behind him. It wouldn’t be a total shock if Seattle did that. Deal is reported as 3 years, $105 million with $52 million in first year guarantees. It probably amounts to something like a two-year $65 million contract if Seattle chooses to move on before year three. Wouldn’t Schneider and Carroll love to make a star out of Geno then a super star out of AR just to rub Wilson’s face in the dirt? Honestly, the Geno Smith contract doesn't seem that bad. It was a tough situation because you don't just want him to walk. It seems like Seattle tied themselves to Geno for two years at roughly the rate of the franchise tag. If he's the real deal, you have him for three years, if not, you're only committed to two years and Seattle is in good shape cap wise. Without knowing the specifics, I actually like the deal. I think the risk was worth taking. On a side note, I'm just surprised Pete Carrol didn't get more consideration for coach of the year. Making a star out of Geno Smith and getting to the playoffs when you were expected to be terrible, I think he should have got as much consideration as Daboll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 4 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: A lot of people suggested (not just on this forum) drafting a QB because of the cap savings. That's what started this whole thing about having to pay Goff $40+ million. It would be stupid to draft a QB for cap space. It would be same old Lions to draft a QB because you don't want to pay your QB. Like I've said, you get a temporary cap savings in years where the Lions have a ton of cap space. You still have to sign the rookie QB if he is good. I'm assuming we want the Lions to draft a good QB. Agreed. If you want to draft one for on field reasons Id still disagree but I could still understand it but I just don't understand the money thing. If there was a true hard cap that there was no way to circumvent and the contract was going to prevent you from fielding any good pieces around him then maybe Id get it, but that isn't the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 drafting and developing a young qb would be great because you'd potentially be developing a great player at the most important position in football, and be able to do it wothout paying a ton of money for the player at that position. for every team but the saints apparently, you eventually have to pay the piper. ask the chiefs. but the chiefs are still really good because they drafted patrick mahomes, sat him for a year, and then took off. if richardson is that type of athlete, then its not unreasonable to draft him, sit him, develop him while he's cheap, and set your franchise up for a decade. risky for sure, but you have this manna from heaven as a gift from stafford, its perfectly plausible to use it to set up the future of your franchise rather than take a cb who you think might be plug and play. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Everybody thinks they are going to draft the next Mahomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Once upon a time the Lions could have drafted Goff and played him on a rookie contract instead of extending Stafford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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