buddha Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 3 minutes ago, Archie said: Since I don't follow the liberal handbook like everyone else here then you figure I'm trying to start a fight? I enjoy respectfully discussing and debating issues but since my views aren't from your handbook then respectfully doesn't happen much here. I'll just start agreeing with everything here so I don't hurt the delicate snowflake feelings. ok 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 53 minutes ago, buddha said: ok You can't agree with me, its not allowed here. I think if you look at everyone you will see it might be more of a demographic thing. I think most, if not all of you here are big city democrats from Chicago, Detroit, NY/NJ etc. Their way of thinking about politics is a lot different. I bet if we took a poll here the majority would favor doing away with the electoral college. The people from the big cities don't like the little guy to interfere with their way of thinking. I'm just a suburban conservative a sharing my opinion but that opinion isn't welcome by the big city dems which is quite normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Archie said: I bet if we took a poll here the majority would favor doing away with the electoral college. The people from the big cities don't like the little guy to interfere with their way of thinking. Or maybe the people in the country are just being greedy and non-communitarian. unwilling to adjust an unfair, non-democratic system because it benefits them. just sayin'... Edited April 15, 2022 by gehringer_2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said: Or maybe the people in the country are just being greedy and non-communitarian. unwilling to adjust an unfair, non-democratic system because it benefits them. just sayin'... The EC was set up so it was fair and represented everyone. If not for the EC the people of the big states and cities would elect our government and the others would have no say. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 (edited) The EC was a compromise between large states and small states. Now if we decide to go back to when only wealthy land owing white males are eligible to vote I'd be willing to discuss the issue further. IMO it became obsolete when the states started using popular vote to decide federal elections. Edited April 15, 2022 by CMRivdogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Archie said: The EC was set up so it was fair and represented everyone. If not for the EC the people of the big states and cities would elect our government and the others would have no say. You are historically and numerically incorrect. The EC exists because the US started out trying to maintain a patina of being union of somewhat politically equal states. It is no longer. It's is now a unitary nation. The Civil War settled that issue pretty emphatically. The other concept - about 'others have no say' is in fact the motivating principal of democracy, which is when in doubt, give the decision to the majority. There is no other fundamentally fair thing to do, thus elimination of anti-majoritarian structures like the EC manifestly would not 'give others no say', but instead move toward giving the most people the most say == democracy. Edited April 15, 2022 by gehringer_2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smr-nj Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 I don’t even know where to share this one…. 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 I never get this argument that California and New York shouldn't determine who is elected. They are Americans just like people from Wyoming. If there votes count less, than I guess Kevin McCarthy, Devin Nunes and Elise Stefanik's vote should count less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 38 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: I never get this argument that California and New York shouldn't determine who is elected. They are Americans just like people from Wyoming. If there votes count less, than I guess Kevin McCarthy, Devin Nunes and Elise Stefanik's vote should count less. They represent “real” Americans though. If you don’t own a truck and take a train to work everyday in an office downtown then you aren’t worthy. Only if you have guns and wear tractor hats should you have more influence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 4 hours ago, Archie said: You can't agree with me, its not allowed here. I think if you look at everyone you will see it might be more of a demographic thing. I think most, if not all of you here are big city democrats from Chicago, Detroit, NY/NJ etc. Their way of thinking about politics is a lot different. I bet if we took a poll here the majority would favor doing away with the electoral college. The people from the big cities don't like the little guy to interfere with their way of thinking. I'm just a suburban conservative a sharing my opinion but that opinion isn't welcome by the big city dems which is quite normal. i'm probably one of the most conservative posters on this board (which says more about the lefty nature of the board than it does about me). i hate the chicago democratic machine and have disdain for politicians on both sides of the aisle. but you were trollin'. nothing wrong with it, but you were certainly doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 the electoral college should be eliminated. its an outdated function of a compromise that is no longer necessary. otoh, it is a symbol of the federalist nature of our political system. we are technically a "union of states", each with its own govt that consented to be grouped together. so the "states" get a vote for president. i dont think we need that anymore and the civil war sort of ended that type of arrangement and made things more centralized. i will note that the electoral college became a "problem" when it started favoring republicans. im old enough to remember the "blue wall"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, buddha said: i will note that the electoral college became a "problem" when it started favoring republicans. im old enough to remember the "blue wall"... It became a problem for many in 2000, which predates when it started truly favoring Rs, I believe. Either way, I'll repeat the refrain I often recite on this subject: if someone were designing a system of government from scratch today, they would never use this system; its a relic system that marginalizes the voices of everyone who doesn't live in the 6-8 states who are close to the tipping point. I am envious of all the Michiganders on the board who live in a state where the vote matters... unless oft-predicted changes in voting behaviors happen where I live, my vote will continue to be irrelevant. Thanks to this system Edited April 15, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 2 minutes ago, buddha said: the electoral college should be eliminated. its an outdated function of a compromise that is no longer necessary. otoh, it is a symbol of the federalist nature of our political system. we are technically a "union of states", each with its own govt that consented to be grouped together. so the "states" get a vote for president. i dont think we need that anymore and the civil war sort of ended that type of arrangement and made things more centralized. i will note that the electoral college became a "problem" when it started favoring republicans. im old enough to remember the "blue wall"... Even with the blue wall, Democrats still won the popular vote. Of the 5 times a president has won the EC and not the popular vote, it was the Republican who benefited the last four times. A Republican hasn't won the popular vote since 2004 and that was the only time since 1988. The EC has never favored Democrats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 5 minutes ago, mtutiger said: I am envious of all the Michiganders on the board who live in a state where the vote matters... unless oft-predicted changes in voting behaviors happen where I live, my vote will continue to be irrelevant. Thanks to this system I've lived in Virginia, Illinois, and Michigan since I began voting in Federal elections in 1972. 2004 2016 and 2020 were probably the only elections where I felt my vote mattered. If I squint hard enough I can count 2008 and 2012 as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 16 minutes ago, mtutiger said: It became a problem for many in 2000, which predates when it started truly favoring Rs, I believe. Either way, I'll repeat the refrain I often recite on this subject: if someone were designing a system of government from scratch today, they would never use this system; its a relic system that marginalizes the voices of everyone who doesn't live in the 6-8 states who are close to the tipping point. I am envious of all the Michiganders on the board who live in a state where the vote matters... unless oft-predicted changes in voting behaviors happen where I live, my vote will continue to be irrelevant. Thanks to this system Texas is narrowing every election so your vote is starting to matter more. The fact that your vote is starting to matter is why Texas continues to push more and more restrictive voter laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted April 16, 2022 Share Posted April 16, 2022 Why are MAGAs so giddy about Elon Musk potentially buying Twitter? He's not a MAGA supporter or some champion of "free speech". If he took over Twitter, he would make decisions which mazimized his profits. That's all it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 16, 2022 Share Posted April 16, 2022 15 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Why are MAGAs so giddy about Elon Musk potentially buying Twitter? He's not a MAGA supporter or some champion of "free speech". If he took over Twitter, he would make decisions which mazimized his profits. That's all it is. Probably because he’s making noise about ‘absolute free speech’, implying no bannings for looneys, at least until they start bad-mouthing Tesla stock… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted April 16, 2022 Share Posted April 16, 2022 When I was looking into an electric vehicle, I looked into Tesla and the Tesla fanboys are a cult and it's no different than Trumpers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted April 16, 2022 Share Posted April 16, 2022 I think that he wants to keep manipulating his stock price, and he might be close to a suspension from Twitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 On 4/15/2022 at 3:09 PM, buddha said: i'm probably one of the most conservative posters on this board (which says more about the lefty nature of the board than it does about me). I remember when you were one of the more liberal posters on the board. I think some people went away when all the Detroit sports teams started to suck. Others became more liberal when the Republican party became batshit crazy under Trump. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 On 4/16/2022 at 1:36 PM, Jim Cowan said: I think that he wants to keep manipulating his stock price, and he might be close to a suspension from Twitter. I also think he could be pretending to be a champion of free speech to get more MAGAs interested in electric cars. They've been conned before. Why not try it again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 39 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Others became more liberal when the Republican party became batshit crazy under Trump. Definitely true. Just thinking about how far the GOP has gone; it's not just from hard care right to batshit crazy - the total transformation far beyond just that : I remember Sen (R) Bob Griffrin used to come to UM football games and campaign to *students* as they walked to the north entrance of the stadium. Can you even imagine a GOP pol believing they had a potential constituency with UM students today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: I remember when you were one of the more liberal posters on the board. I think some people went away when all the Detroit sports teams started to suck. Others became more liberal when the Republican party became batshit crazy under Trump. there's been a lot of trump derangement syndrome going on. also, the george floyd thing seems to have moved some around here further left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, buddha said: there's been a lot of trump derangement syndrome going on. also, the george floyd thing seems to have moved some around here further left. If it were just Trump it would be one thing - but Lindsay Graham, Cruz, Boebert, Cawthorn, Jordan, etc., and Mephistopheles himself from Ky are a cast of characters all beyond the pale of anything that should have ever come close to being elected to govern a pig farm let alone the US gov. Edited April 17, 2022 by gehringer_2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 Trump derangement syndrome is Republican Party syndrome. Yes the D’s have issues too but it’s such small potatoes to the dangers of the Republican Party. If they win congress and the White House it’s not hyperbole to assume our experiment is over. We will evolve into an authoritarian system of government and will be a generation away from political opponents and members of the media turning up dead. Elections will be rendered meaningless. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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