2022 DETROIT TIGERS REGULAR SEASON THREAD

[RandyMarsh]

I definitely don't think Chris is as passionate about winning as his Dad was but at the same time I don't think he wants to lose, I mean why would you? He may not want to have a 200 million dollar payroll but why wouldn't he want to get the best GM possible since that cost is relative peanuts?  

[Dan Gilmore]

We’re all pissed to some degree about the team, and venting is probably a good thing on a personal level. It’s a forum, so let the opinions flow. Speculation about the search, or CI’s motivation seems ungrounded in factual info and more so in individual disgust.

[bobrob2004]

2 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I definitely don't think Chris is as passionate about winning as his Dad was but at the same time I don't think he wants to lose, I mean why would you? He may not want to have a 200 million dollar payroll but why wouldn't he want to get the best GM possible since that cost is relative peanuts?  

I don't think Ilitch wants to lose either.  The Tigers franchise is going to increase in value and make him money regardless if they win or lose.  Of course if he had the choice, he'd chose winning.  But I also don't think there's any incentive for him to try to win either.  He just hopes that everything falls into place with minimum effort.  

[RandyMarsh]

3 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

I don't think Ilitch wants to lose either.  The Tigers franchise is going to increase in value and make him money regardless if they win or lose.  Of course if he had the choice, he'd chose winning.  But I also don't think there's any incentive for him to try to win either.  He just hopes that everything falls into place with minimum effort.  

I can understand this feeling but I think the relative low cost of resources it would take to find the right GM is something that even he would want to put the effort into doing. But of course it's all speculation on my part. 

Edited September 17, 2022 by RandyMarsh

[casimir]

On 9/16/2022 at 1:22 PM, Dan Gilmore said:

Everyone? Name two.

The silent response is deafening.

[sabretooth]

34 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

I don't think Ilitch wants to lose either.  The Tigers franchise is going to increase in value and make him money regardless if they win or lose.  Of course if he had the choice, he'd chose winning.  But I also don't think there's any incentive for him to try to win either.  He just hopes that everything falls into place with minimum effort.  

Yeah, this is my sense of his approach WRT the Tigers.

[sabretooth]

33 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I can understand this feeling but I think the relative low cost of resources it would take to find the right GM is something that even he would want to put the effort into doing. But of course it's all speculation on my part. 

Maybe he feels that Hinchs involvement gives him the cover that a consultant would provide, and scapegoat should the new GM not work out.

Look how he recently handled the question about JVs firesale trade.  It was like he didnt even care that a generational player was pissed away.  His response was basically to blame Avila and let it stand at that.

Edited September 17, 2022 by sabretooth

[casimir]

41 minutes ago, Dan Gilmore said:

We’re all pissed to some degree about the team, and venting is probably a good thing on a personal level. It’s a forum, so let the opinions flow. Speculation about the search, or CI’s motivation seems ungrounded in factual info and more so in individual disgust.

I don't understand why people assume CI's motivation or his interest level in the Tigers.  MI was the owner through some awfully bad seasons before he finally got rid of Randy Smith, yet for whatever reason, that gets ignored when some folks talk about CI not being the passionate owner that MI was.  Heck, I think there was a stretch during MI's ownership where the Tigers had its worst length of time (per winning percentage) for some accumulated seasons in a row.

But it clearly goes without saying, CI is going to have hit a home run with this next hire.  Worst team in baseball over the last 7 seasons and all of the spoils that come with that through the draft haven't been realized in terms of a farm system that's bursting with talent.

If they want to use Hinch's network of baseball relationships, that's fine.  Who does he know from the Dodgers, Astros, Cardinals, Braves that can get this team in the right direction?  And not just from the capacity of the GM.  Take a look at scouting, analytics, and development.

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

I definitely don't think Chris is as passionate about winning as his Dad was but at the same time I don't think he wants to lose, I mean why would you? He may not want to have a 200 million dollar payroll but why wouldn't he want to get the best GM possible since that cost is relative peanuts?  

But the truth is that passion and 5$ gets you a Vente at Starbucks. I really don't care if my owner is passionate. Passionate can still be more than above average incompetent. He doesn't need to be passionate as long as he enables and demands performance in the org. Problem is I don't really know if that is going to be true of C.I. either!  🤷‍♀️

[gehringer_2]

4 hours ago, sabretooth said:

I can't speak to the particulars because I'm doing this while I'm driving and cannot research at this moment.

 For what it's worth I didn't post this column because I thought it was a scoop.   I posted it because the guy's thinking about the publicly speculated candidates aligned with my own thinking.

I'll quickly compare my sense of this search at this moment to the most recent executive search, being the Lions.

My sense throughout in terms of how the Lions handled their last search was that they were engaged with the media and worked to align public expectations.   

At the time I had a sense of who was involved in what each person was contributing and it made sense to me.   I also had a good sense that they were looking to establish a new management team that would be forward looking and not simply a retread or some other lazy approach.   I surely had my doubts because of the inexperience of the owner, but it seemed like a sound process with a good and viable goal.  

If we really don't know anything about this, and they're doing something good behind the scenes, OK fine.   I think it would be better for them to establish and align the public's expectations so that they can build support for the outcome.  

My intuition tells me that's a list that has been put out there is probably pretty close to the mark.   If thats wrong and they hire somebody better great.

These are good points. 

The counter point would that  C. I. and SHF had totally different resource bases to work from at square one. SHF basically had to put together new decision and advice resources for herself to use and we saw that all play out. C.I. already has all kinds of legal, personnel and other business resources he can call on without us ever seeing any chess pieces being moved. So it goes back your point about more of the Tiger's operation being behind the scenes. Doesn't necessarily bode well or ill, we just are not going to get see how they get there - where-ever there ends up being.

[buddha]

4 hours ago, bobrob2004 said:

I think Chris Ilitch is very disinterested in owning the Tigers and is just going through the motions.  I don't see the same passion in him as I did with his father.  I don't think he wants to sell because it would feel like he would be letting down his father.  I don't think he really cares about who the next GM will be, which is why there's talk of Hinch being involved in the selection process (and why I think Menzin will ultimately take over permanently).  I think if Ilitch had it his way, Avilia would still be the GM, but he fired him to appease the fan base and not because he thinks it will be better for the Tigers.  I don't think he really cares how the Tigers do.  If he really wants to have a better team, he would have also fired Hinch and all the coaching staff along with Avila.  Ilitch is just doing the bare minimum to try to keep the fans happy.

That's just my perspective of things.  I could be wrong.

i dont know if its that he doesnt care, but i do know that he doesnt know what he's doing.  if he did, he never would have left avila in that job for that long with so much failure on his resume.  you may be right that he doesnt really care, but i think the lack of knowing what to do is worse.

if he's relying on hinch like he is reported to be doing, its because he doesnt know what else to do.

hire a search firm for god's sake if you have no clue and no industry sources to lean on.

[bobrob2004]

10 minutes ago, buddha said:

i dont know if its that he doesnt care, but i do know that he doesnt know what he's doing.  if he did, he never would have left avila in that job for that long with so much failure on his resume.  you may be right that he doesnt really care, but i think the lack of knowing what to do is worse.

if he's relying on hinch like he is reported to be doing, its because he doesnt know what else to do.

hire a search firm for god's sake if you have no clue and no industry sources to lean on.

Do they still employ "special assistants," such as Jim Leyland, Willie Horton and formally Al Kaline?  Shouldn't this group be a heavy influence on who to hire?  

[oblong]

We don’t know that he’s “relying on Hinch”.  Hinch is the only guy who speaks to reporters. So what he says gets magnified. I’m sure he has input because why wouldn’t he?  My “criticism” is more about the article itself trying to position itself to some inside authority or knowledge when in fact it’s just as credible as whatever we all know here. It’s just a guy, or fan, writing.  From what I have seen from media outlets no candidate has been confirmed to have been interviewed or to even be considered.  Basically the writers looked at guys just below the GM level around the league and said “this is someone they could be after”. Well yeah…. That’s how it works.  They will hire someone who is not yet a GM from another org or will hire someone who was a GM but not anymore.  There’s only so many of those out there. They will not pull a Matt Millen from the TV booth move.   And anybodys opinion on whether the move is good or not will be an uninformed one. 

[casimir]

27 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

Do they still employ "special assistants," such as Jim Leyland, Willie Horton and formally Al Kaline?  Shouldn't this group be a heavy influence on who to hire?  

I don’t know that they should have a heavy influence.  Why should they?

With all due respect to Horton and his legacy with the city and fan base, I would think his employment is more ceremonial than operational.  There’s absolutely nothing working with that at all.  It’s good to see someone of his stature associated with the team.  it just doesn’t mean that he should sign off on the next GM before it’s official.

As for Leyland, is he still doing some scouting around the minors and Pittsburgh?  He might have some connections through that, but again, is he in the know enough to contribute anything to this search?

Bottom line is this, just because someone has had favorable history with the club doesn’t mean they’re in a position to advise on the future of the club.  In fact, it might be beneficial to network with other clubs to get an idea of opinions about potential candidates.

[buddha]

35 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

Do they still employ "special assistants," such as Jim Leyland, Willie Horton and formally Al Kaline?  Shouldn't this group be a heavy influence on who to hire?  

willie horton?  wtf does willie horton know about modern baseball management?

jim leyland has been done with baseball for a decade.

he needs contacts you meet at gm meetings and owners meetings.  people who are in management in the game currently and can see trends and know who is up and coming.

does he have that?  i dont know.  given the fact that he kept avila for years, i doubt he does.

[casimir]

2 minutes ago, buddha said:

willie horton?  wtf does willie horton know about modern baseball management?

jim leyland has been done with baseball for a decade.

he needs contacts you meet at gm meetings and owners meetings.  people who are in management in the game currently and can see trends and know who is up and coming.

does he have that?  i dont know.  given the fact that he kept avila for years, i doubt he does.

Hey, Cabrera makes the most money around there.  Maybe he should make the decision?

[bobrob2004]

I didn't neccesarily mean those specific people. Those are just the ones I know of off-hand.  The fact that Ilitch might not know who to hire shouldn't matter as I'm sure there are people in the organization who do (other than Hinch).  Which is why I want a clean slate, new GM, new manager, new coaches. 

[RatkoVarda]

let's see if Harris wants to start the churn

 

[1984Echoes]

Andujar is worse than what we already have so I would say hard pass...

[casimir]

4 hours ago, RatkoVarda said:

let's see if Harris wants to start the churn

 

I can’t see claiming him now.  I’m not certain of this, but I think the Tigers are going to have enough 40 man questions to begin with.  They can cut Short, Cameron, and Lester, those are easy.  Maybe a Castro and Candelario are non tendered.  But I think they’re going to have to move a few pitchers to create some 40 man spots.  All that said, I honestly don’t know who needs to be added this off-season.  Maybe it’s a small number so it’s not a big deal.

Anywho, Andujar doesn’t seem like someone that will be claimed, he’s struggled since his rookie season.  But he’s easily worth a minor league contract with an opt out just to get him to Lakeland and see what’s up.  Assuming the Tigers have a different hitting staff, maybe they figure something out.  I kind of doubt it, but there’s nothing to lose with a minor league deal.

[1984Echoes]

Minor league deal seems more amenable.

He'd play at AA or AAA though, not low-A.

[RandyMarsh]

4 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

Minor league deal seems more amenable.

He'd play at AA or AAA though, not low-A.

Fyi I think by Lakeland he meant Spring Training.

[casimir]

17 hours ago, casimir said:

Anywho, Andujar doesn’t seem like someone that will be claimed, he’s struggled since his rookie season.  But he’s easily worth a minor league contract with an opt out just to get him to Lakeland and see what’s up.

 

4 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

Minor league deal seems more amenable.

He'd play at AA or AAA though, not low-A.

I probably wasn't clear enough.  When I mentioned Lakeland, I was thinking spring training.  I'd imagine if he were to be assigned to a minor league team, it'd be AAA.  He'll be 28 next March.  I can't imagine he'd be in AA unless he completely reworks a swing or has some sort of injury rehab or something of the sort.

[casimir]

Just now, RandyMarsh said:

Fyi I think by Lakeland he meant Spring Training.

Stop reading my mind.

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

Fyi I think by Lakeland he meant Spring Training.

Oh... yeah, right.