2022 DETROIT TIGERS REGULAR SEASON THREAD

[chasfh]

5 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

Baddoo is another guy that is a head scratcher.  He clearly has the skill set to be a decent hitter but he has seemingly forgotten how to hit, like most of the guys on this team this year.

I understand having a tough year but OPSing sub 500 is just ridiculous.

Baffling.

He lingered for five seasons in another organization, never getting above A+, so perhaps it's not so baffling when considering that?

[gehringer_2]

3 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Hinch and Garko are both very recently from outside the organization, as opposed to practically everyone at the top of the front office who has been ossifying there for a decade or two. I don't know what getting a third-party consultant to lead the search, and who does not have the intrinsic understanding of the Tigers' system that certainly Hinch and perhaps Garko do by now, would add to the process.

 

IDK, this can cut both ways. I might look at the logic from the opposite direction: Who cares what the Tiger system is now or how it functions? It's a failed system.  I want a different organization based on a different model with different function. I don't care about the blueprints of the old house if my objective is to tear it down and build a new one.

I guess it comes down to your tolerance for revolution vs evolution. Not to make this political but just to speak to how change works in general, evolution in large orgs like countries is certainly more successful than revolution. I think as orgs get smaller that becomes progressively less true, but I don't really have any insight to which side of the ledger something like an MLB franchise might be on.

[bobrob2004]

Anyone remember this letter the Tigers sent season ticket holders to "be patient"?

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2017/08/31/long-letter-fans-tigers-plead-patience/105147446/

It's been five years and the Tigers are no better off now than then.  

[sabretooth]

40 minutes ago, chasfh said:

He lingered for five seasons in another organization, never getting above A+, so perhaps it's not so baffling when considering that?

That was between the ages of 17 and 20, though.  He admittedly didnt put up impressive stats, but he did a good job last year against MLB pitching, including rebounding from a bad slump after his hot start.

He's only 23....his profile looks a lot like Boesch....if he succeeds, he would likely provide several years of decent production.

[sabretooth]

I should have been clearer...the change in baseballs and potential coaching shortcomings notwithstanding, the "baffling" part is how everybody took a dump this year.

I wouldnt be baffled if Baddoo's troubles were a relatively isolated phenomenon along with another guy or two.  But everybody...its wild.

[Edman85]

51 minutes ago, chasfh said:

He lingered for five seasons in another organization, never getting above A+, so perhaps it's not so baffling when considering that?

 

Never repeated a level and the fifth season, when he would have been been slated for AA, was cancelled. It seems like the normal arc of a high school draftee. The above characterization is a bit off base.

Edited September 5, 2022 by Edman85

[bobrob2004]

22 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

That was between the ages of 17 and 20, though.  He admittedly didnt put up impressive stats, but he did a good job last year against MLB pitching, including rebounding from a bad slump after his hot start.

He's only 23....his profile looks a lot like Boesch....if he succeeds, he would likely provide several years of decent production.

I compared Baddoo to Austin Jackson before, and I'm sticking to it.  

[Shinzaki]

They're pitching to our whole team like a bunch of Babe Ruths

[Jim Cowan]

1 hour ago, Edman85 said:

 

Never repeated a level and the fifth season, when he would have been been slated for AA, was cancelled. It seems like the normal arc of a high school draftee. The above characterization is a bit off base.

Absolutely right, he didn't "linger" anywhere.

[buddha]

4 hours ago, romad1 said:

A Steve Yzerman clone exists and his name is Kirk Gibson but he's not a well man.   Perhaps we should start talking about Leyland vets who are moving into front offices or perhaps our fragile Michigan egos should accept that outsiders sometimes are the right answer so long as they aren't flaming asshats like Matt Patricia.

steve yzerman put together back to back stanley cup champions.

how is kirk gibson even close to that?

[casimir]

4 hours ago, mtutiger said:

My vote is for Drew Hutchison... DFA'd a bunch of times, yet one of their more effective pitchers and one who hasn't hit the injury list.

Infuriating.

Hutchison has definitely done an admirable job of filling a pitching hole for the Tigers this season.  He’s probably best suited for long relief, which, I know, we cannot have RPs pitch more than an inning these days.

[casimir]

5 minutes ago, buddha said:

steve yzerman put together back to back stanley cup champions.

how is kirk gibson even close to that?

I think the post was meant to be somewhat sarcastic?

[Tenacious D]

Thread cleanser:

Welcome to the bigs, Josh

[mtutiger]

40 minutes ago, casimir said:

Hutchison has definitely done an admirable job of filling a pitching hole for the Tigers this season.  He’s probably best suited for long relief, which, I know, we cannot have RPs pitch more than an inning these days.

For sure, I don't even think he's any good tbh, I criticized him a lot early in particular. It's just that there have been exceedingly few examples of guys providing value and / or outkicking their coverage talent-wise this year and he's one of them. 

Which, of course, it's infuriating when you have to throw names like Harold Castro and Drew Hutchison around in this conversation lol

[gehringer_2]

3 hours ago, Edman85 said:

 

Never repeated a level and the fifth season, when he would have been been slated for AA, was cancelled. It seems like the normal arc of a high school draftee. The above characterization is a bit off base.

also lost time to TJ.

[1984Echoes]

5 hours ago, Jim Cowan said:

Having the field coaches involved in front office personnel decisions is what really stupid NFL teams do.  Chris Ilitch needs help obviously but it has to be from outside the organization.

Outside help is worthless if all they give is crappy advise. And there's no guarantee that you get the "right" advise versus "crappy". Didn't the Lions use an "outside voice" to determine that Bob Quinn would be the best hire to make as their new GM? And how did that work out...?

It doesn't matter where the "right" answer comes from, whether that's from Hinch, Ilitch, organizational consensus, the new analytics guys getting to make the call, or an "outside voice", it only matters getting to the correct answer.

[gehringer_2]

3 hours ago, sabretooth said:

I should have been clearer...the change in baseballs and potential coaching shortcomings notwithstanding, the "baffling" part is how everybody took a dump this year.

I get that argument that bad coaching shouldn't affect everyone because there are a lot of guys who are self coached to the point where they aren't going to be paying much attention to team coaching anyway and so you should get a distribution of guys having normal years. But on the other hand I also believe there is a team synergy to hitting. The more men on base and the more scoring pressure a team puts on the opposition pitcher, the more that stress should result in improved opportunities for your hitters. I don't know how many BA points it might be worth, but I think the effect is probably real.

That said, one of the Tigers' biggest single problems this season is either not swinging at or not barreling up the opposition pitcher's hittable mistakes - I don't know how you explain that.

[gehringer_2]

3 hours ago, bobrob2004 said:

I compared Baddoo to Austin Jackson before, and I'm sticking to it.  

IIRC, One difference would be that Jackson was considered a can't miss prospect when we landed him from the Yankees. I don't know if Akil has ever gotten that level of buzz.

[chasfh]

4 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

IDK, this can cut both ways. I might look at the logic from the opposite direction: Who cares what the Tiger system is now or how it functions? It's a failed system.  I want a different organization based on a different model with different function. I don't care about the blueprints of the old house if my objective is to tear it down and build a new one.

I guess it comes down to your tolerance for revolution vs evolution. Not to make this political but just to speak to how change works in general, evolution in large orgs like countries is certainly more successful than revolution. I think as orgs get smaller that becomes progressively less true, but I don't really have any insight to which side of the ledger something like an MLB franchise might be on.

There can be no way you seriously believe I was suggesting that they base their hire on maintaining their current system.

[chasfh]

4 hours ago, sabretooth said:

That was between the ages of 17 and 20, though.  He admittedly didnt put up impressive stats, but he did a good job last year against MLB pitching, including rebounding from a bad slump after his hot start.

He's only 23....his profile looks a lot like Boesch....if he succeeds, he would likely provide several years of decent production.

That's a fair reply—although I wouldn't hold up Brennan Boesch results as the goal, since he also had only the one decent production year that Baddoo has ... 😏.

Point being, I don't think it's too much a surprise that Baddoo has done a faceplant this year.

Edited September 5, 2022 by chasfh

[gehringer_2]

6 minutes ago, chasfh said:

There can be no way you seriously believe I was suggesting that they base their hire on maintaining their current system.

LOL - on reread -  to be honest I did misread you post a little. Your qoute was:

Quote

Given the unique state of this team, particularly the incompetence of the ownership and front office in terms of how baseball is run today, as well as these two guys being practically the only key people in the organization having any experience at winning organizations, I'd be alarmed if they weren't involved.

I glossed too quickly at "experience at *winning* organizations* and took it as "experience in the organization" as in guys who know what's going on the current system. 

mea culpa

[Motor City Sonics]

In 1968 Ray Oyler played all the way until September 22nd.......................his last hit came July 13th.   He went 0 for 36 the rest of the season with an OBP of .053, the same as his OPS.   

He was the 5th player the Seattle Pilots drafted in the expansion draft.     

 

 

[Tiger337]

On 9/2/2022 at 5:42 PM, mtutiger said:

It shouldn't deserve scorn regardless... hopefully he recovers.

No kind of mental health problem deserves scorn.  Mental health problems are real and many people have no more control over their mental health than they do over their physical health.

[sabretooth]

4 hours ago, chasfh said:

That's a fair reply—although I wouldn't hold up Brennan Boesch results as the goal, since he also had only the one decent production year that Baddoo has ... 😏.

Point being, I don't think it's too much a surprise that Baddoo has done a faceplant this year.

Boesch actually had two years of decent production (2010 and 2011...I said decent, not above average), and a third year (2012) that was far far more productive than Baddoo this year, and he had a very nice cup of coffee with NYY in 2013 at age 28 before disappearing.

Looking ahead, Baddoo has the potential advantage of breaking in at age 22, so he has a few years of probable athletic improvement ahead, unlike Boesch, who broke in at age 25.

Boesch faded the way you would expect a platoon guy with mediocre skills. 

I would be **very** happy if Baddoo can take advantage of his relative youth to be a decent semi-regular until age 28 or 29 or so.  I dont expect that, but I do think its reasonable to hope that Baddoo cab have a couple of decent years.

You dont **expect** a guy to go from better than league average at age 22 to completely unable to hit at all and disappear.  Baddoos preseason projections were for him to be decent.

The collapse isn't shocking, but I think its reasonable to say that it is suprising.

[buddha]

baseball history is full of one year wonders.  baddoo could very well be on the joe charboneau path.