chasfh Posted June 23, 2022 Author Share Posted June 23, 2022 Just now, gehringer_2 said: in the current age, isn't all media siloed? The Athletic is not walled off from all other media. They are part of an environment in which media vehicles feed on each other. It’s not as though only people who subscribe to The Athletic are the only people who will hear about the story. To the degree that the story is available to be referred to and quoted in other media, its reach and impact will move beyond the Athletic, and could spur questions and follow-up stories in other media vehicles. The question now is whether this will get any legs in any other media. Not MLB or beat media, of course. But there is no hard silo preventing other vehicles from picking up on the ideas in the story and following up on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 hour ago, chasfh said: “I like James McCann. He’s a good-looking player who’s got grit. There’s a guy down the street from me named McCann. Good guy.” he plays the the game the right way. No buttoned down jersey or necklaces or whatever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 I cancelled my Athletic sub because they could never remember who I was. I always had to log back in again. I would literally have the app open, logged in, then click on a tweet, it would take me not to the app but to a webpage to login.... I'd login, then it would take me to the main page and not the article I clicked on. They make it too hard to use their product and the price is beyond the point I can just ignore it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) I don't think they need to be blown up. I think they need a new GM and a new hitting coach. Although what does a hitting coach do besides tell them to bend their knees. (sarcasm) If he were one really tuned into the tech, he'd be telling them to assess what pitchers are doing to get them out. He'd be working with Tork on swinging more aggressively earlier in the count. They seem like they have been going from chaotic episode to chaotic episode this season. Maybe that's AJ's fault but I think the fan base is ready to give AJ a pass because of last season for a little longer. The current owner and GM on the other hand: not so much Edited June 23, 2022 by romad1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 hour ago, chasfh said: Honestly, this organization is so tight-lipped and obfuscatory about everything, I don’t know what to believe when they say stuff. Rosenthal's reporting is that Hinch is under contract for longer than Al. On top of the comment about the opt-out, Lynn also had different terms as well when he speculated over a year ago. Who you gonna believe? Rosenthal, or the guy whose Twitter feed is 95% left wing politics at this point in his career? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 minute ago, mtutiger said: Rosenthal's reporting is that Hinch is under contract for longer than Al. On top of the comment about the opt-out, Lynn also had different terms as well when he speculated over a year ago. Who you gonna believe? Rosenthal, or the guy whose Twitter feed is 95% left wing politics at this point in his career? Lynn is doing a lot of long-distance analysis. I don't know if he's plugged in anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdog Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Let us entrust the man who f'd up the current rebuild to try the next one: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 23, 2022 Author Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 minute ago, mtutiger said: Rosenthal's reporting is that Hinch is under contract for longer than Al. On top of the comment about the opt-out, Lynn also had different terms as well when he speculated over a year ago. Who you gonna believe? Rosenthal, or the guy whose Twitter feed is 95% left wing politics at this point in his career? It's not a matter of believing Rosenthal as much as a matter of believing the Avila he quoted, who is an interested party in the story. I am not saying I'm certain Avila is lying! I'm saying in so many words that I don't know what to believe when this organization talks. The only thing I am certain of is that Avila is tailoring his answers to protect the interests of the Detroit Tigers organization, and it is in the interest of the organization to portray themselves as having a clear plan and that they are sticking to it. That's all I'm really certain of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 hour ago, chasfh said: It was calculated that it would look worse for the organization for Al to avoid going on record to defend the Tigers as best as he could manage. This suggests that there isn't self-interest involved in Al going out to defend his record.... there's quite a bit of self interest, his comments suggest that he doesn't feel as secure in his position as he once did. People have good reason to doubt Pizza Jr., but there's parts of Rosenthal's reporting that suggest Al is on thinner ice than previously realized. The comment about Avila's contract length (and not being aligned with Hinch's) is a big one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdog Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 minute ago, chasfh said: It's not a matter of believing Rosenthal as much as a matter of believing the Avila he quoted, who is an interested party in the story. No, it's a matter of believing either Rosenthal or Lynn Henning, who is (to my knowledge) the one who gave birth to the "opt out" rumors. This is why I keep going at this: without that tweet last year, we don't spend the following 15 months arguing "what ifs" about an opt-out clause that very well doesn't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 23, 2022 Author Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 minute ago, mtutiger said: This suggests that there isn't self-interest involved in Al going out to defend his record.... there's quite a bit of self interest, his comments suggest that he doesn't feel as secure in his position as he once did. People have good reason to doubt Pizza Jr., but there's parts of Rosenthal's reporting that suggest Al is on thinner ice than previously realized. The comment about Avila's contract length (and not being aligned with Hinch's) is a big one. This suggests that Al Avila's publicly-stated interests are separate and distinct from the interests of the Detroit Tigers. I believe whatever interests Al Avila has that are separate from those the Tigers will remain internal and not be publicly aired in articles such as this. I doubt that Al Avila spoke to the Athletic without clearing it with, or at least informing, the higher-ups in S&E. I don't think he has complete carte blanche in representing the interests of the Detroit Tigers in public. If he does, or if it's never been contemplated, than LCE does not have their shit together as much as their successes would indicate—which I grant is a possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 23, 2022 Author Share Posted June 23, 2022 6 minutes ago, mtutiger said: No, it's a matter of believing either Rosenthal or Lynn Henning, who is (to my knowledge) the one who gave birth to the "opt out" rumors. Disagree that Avila is out of that loop, but OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, chasfh said: Disagree that Avila is out of that loop, but OK. So Lynn Henning posts a rumor that raises the anxiety level of the fanbase to 10, it comes out that both the terms of an opt-out and the length of the contract that were speculated on at the time were reported to be wrong, and the reaction is then "well, I don't know what to believe". To use a Garry Kasparov phrase, talk about the annihilation of truth.... Edited June 23, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, chasfh said: I believe whatever interests Al Avila has that are separate from those the Tigers will remain internal and not be publicly aired in articles such as this. Obviously. But if I were in his position and were concerned about my job, the logical move would be to talk to Rosenthal. And that is a break in pattern from the normal, which is to talk to Bally and a few others locally and say little else in public. I'm not saying anything comes of it, but it was a break in pattern and should be noted. Edited June 23, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) 26 minutes ago, kdog said: Let us entrust the man who f'd up the current rebuild to try the next one: More brilliance from Lynn Henning lol Edited June 23, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerbomb13 Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveMaroth Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 hour ago, mtutiger said: More brilliance from Lynn Henning lol At least sportz and him are on a first name basis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said: At least sportz and him are on a first name basis They have apparently met several times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 23, 2022 Author Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, mtutiger said: So Lynn Henning posts a rumor that raises the anxiety level of the fanbase to 10, it comes out that both the terms of an opt-out and the length of the contract that were speculated on at the time were reported to be wrong, and the reaction is then "well, I don't know what to believe". To use a Garry Kasparov phrase, talk about the annihilation of truth.... Just because Lynn Henning is full of shit doesn't mean Al Avila is a gold standard-bearer of the truth. Talk about a false dichotomy ... 😅 Keep yourself open to the idea that they could be both full of shit. That, and not that I must choose between one or the other, is why I don't know what to believe. Edited June 23, 2022 by chasfh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, chasfh said: Just because Lynn Henning is full of shit doesn't mean Al Avila is a gold standard-bearer of the truth. Talk about a false dichotomy ... 😅 Keep yourself open to the idea that they could be both full of shit. That, and not that I must choose between one or the other, is why I don't know what to believe. If Lynn Henning hadn't said anything about an opt out, would there have been 15 months of speculation over it? The answer is NO. If Lynn is going to make claims like that, Lynn should provide evidence or at least be able to back up the assertion. Otherwise he should be disregarded. Feelings about Avila be damned. Edited June 23, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 23, 2022 Author Share Posted June 23, 2022 6 minutes ago, mtutiger said: If Lynn Henning hadn't said anything about an opt out, would there have been 15 months of speculation over it? The answer is NO. If Lynn is going to make claims like that, Lynn should provide evidence or at least be able to back up the assertion. Otherwise he should be disregarded. Feelings about Avila be damned. I don't know why you keep pretending I am taking Lynn Henning's word over yours, but you should realize that everyone here can see I am clearly not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, chasfh said: I don't know why you keep pretending I am taking Lynn Henning's word over yours, but you should realize that everyone here can see I am clearly not. My point is that the entire discussion for the past 15 months about AJ and his relationship with the Tigers has been among this fan base has been framed on speculation that ultimately may not even be true. And had said speculation not happened, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. To be clear, I'm not defending the Tigers either, maybe they could be a little more transparent about the contract status of their management team. But even setting aside the comment about the opt out, Rosenthal's reporting pretty clearly states that AJ Hinch is under contract through 2025 (and attributed to 'sources', not Avila himself). I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that Rosenthal doesn't report this stuff if he doesn't believe it's accurate. Edited June 23, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdog Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) I don't feel the same way about Hinch like I did a year ago. He has a lot of control here...both with the roster and the direction of the organization. But it's not his fault that we drafted Rey Rivera and Nick Quintana. That's on Al and 7 dwarfs. But he is now responsible for the major league product and it stinks out loud. He can opt-out if he wants and he can leave...I don't care any longer about protecting him from Avila. He is in it now. Avila has already ceded a lot of power to the analytic wonder twins. The player development staff has been overhauled. If Hinch is in this for the long haul and has some solutions to our fundamental organizational problems, start fixing it. Avila has been emasculated. He is not an obstacle to fixing this team. Edited June 23, 2022 by kdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 (edited) I’ve been spending a portion of my evening reading the recent articles chronicling Avila’s many failures. I had totally missed Zumaya’s rant from a month or so ago-beautiful. Call it false hope or whatever but I’m starting to think Avila may be on the clock now. Finally, there are some public rumblings regarding his futile tenure as a GM. There is not going to be a successful Avila in Detroit. I don’t care how long he stays here, he isn’t MLB caliber. Maybe around the AS break, or hopefully sooner, there will be a change. The man is actually a distraction at this point. Edited June 24, 2022 by 1776 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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